Alec Baldwin Movie Set Accident

On the armourer, my son dug into the online court records and reports there is an email showing she was contracted for only eight man-days of armourer work. (Other hours with lower pay and different job title.) Those were used up prior to the shooting. She requested more time for safety work and was told no.

The live round appears to have come from the costume department. There was a belt sleeve of live ammo with the assorted gear available for Balwin to wear. Five live rounds and one empty loop, IIRC.

The professional camera crew had already quit due to safety issues.
Apparently the armourer should have done so as well.
 
The whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen. It seems like safety and common sense were nonexistent. I despise Baldwin but I'm not of the opinion he's guilty of a crime. The production company and executives (which Baldwin is a key figure) are certainly civilly liable but I don't believe a crime was committed. I know that's an unpopular opinion but I try to be intellectually honest. Would I give a conservative leaning actor the benefit of the doubt under similar circumstances? Yes I would but only because I think the circumstances warrant such consideration. Therefore I have to be consistent and give Baldwin the same benefit of the doubt. Being an asshat and a liberal douchbage shouldn't factor into whether or not he committed a criminal act. I don't think he did. Sue the crap out of him and the production company but he shouldn't be charged with a crime for this IMO. YMMV
 
Criminal Neglect Homicide and he should be made to answer for his killing of this woman. I’m sure some would be jumping up and down if he killed her via DWI but somehow want to give a pass when one of these celebrity mouth breathers f’s up with a firearm, “ah, let it go, it happens……” BS. Now they’ve tossed the firearms charge out so now he’s charged with pointing his finger? Amazing.
 
The whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen. It seems like safety and common sense were nonexistent. I despise Baldwin but I'm not of the opinion he's guilty of a crime. The production company and executives (which Baldwin is a key figure) are certainly civilly liable but I don't believe a crime was committed. I know that's an unpopular opinion but I try to be intellectually honest. Would I give a conservative leaning actor the benefit of the doubt under similar circumstances? Yes I would but only because I think the circumstances warrant such consideration. Therefore I have to be consistent and give Baldwin the same benefit of the doubt. Being an asshat and a liberal douchbage shouldn't factor into whether or not he committed a criminal act. I don't think he did. Sue the crap out of him and the production company but he shouldn't be charged with a crime for this IMO. YMMV

Involuntary Manslaughter would be appropriate charge.
 
One definition of involuntary manslaughter is: The unintentional killing of a person as a result of a reckless or negligent act, or as a result of the commission of a non-felony crime.

The movie scene required pointing the gun at someone and pulling the trigger. There were safety protocols in place to make sure the gun wasn't loaded. There were people specifically designated to make sure there wasn't loaded ammo in the gun or on the set. The actor (Baldwin) was handed a gun and told it was safe. He went through the motions of acting out the scene and in the process the gun fired.

Where did he act reckless? He was doing his job by acting out a scene where he was supposed to act out shooting another character with a movie prop gun.

Where was he negligent? He relied on the supporting staff to load the gun and they said it was safe. He had no reason to believe live ammo was in the gun or on the set.

What crime was he committing when the gun went off? None, he was acting on a movie set.

Now, civil liability is another matter. As one of the producers and executives of the production he had a managerial role in making sure all laws, rules and codes of safety were complied with. If they weren't he's guilty of not completely doing his job but the actual event itself was an accident. An accident caused by a culture of safety violations (firearms and otherwise) but an accident none the less. That makes him civilly liable but in my uneducated non-lawer opinion he didn't commit a crime.

In order to find him guilty of a crime the prosecution is going to have to prove he acted either recklessly (he didn't), he acted negligently (he didn't) or he was in the commission of a crime when the accident happened (he wasn't). Again, I cannot stand Baldwin. He's a first class jerk and blowhard. Neither of which are elements of the crimes he's been accused of. He will be acquitted.

Whether or not he should have personally checked the ammo to make sure it was blank ammo is an entirely separate question. I would have and probably most of you would have but we're gun nuts. What's normal protocol for those of us that routinely handle firearms is different from what an actor or non-firearms enthusiast might do. In a perfect world they would treat guns like we do but that's why they have armorers on the set to prevent this stuff. Whether or not the armorer was there and/or doing their job is a valid discussion but that's not the responsibility of the actor.
 
Criminal Neglect Homicide and he should be made to answer for his killing of this woman. I’m sure some would be jumping up and down if he killed her via DWI but somehow want to give a pass when one of these celebrity mouth breathers f’s up with a firearm, “ah, let it go, it happens……” BS. Now they’ve tossed the firearms charge out so now he’s charged with pointing his finger? Amazing.
If he had killed her while driving intoxicated then some sort of manslaughter charge would be appropriate because driving intoxicated is a crime. Acting in a movie scene isn't a crime.
 
Have to disagree councilor. Under the definition of negligence it doesn’t say except for people acting in a movie. But this is why I don’t argue with made up nickname people on the internet. If you don’t believe in your convictions strong enough to use your real name the point is moot. Good day.
 
The whole thing was a disaster waiting to happen. It seems like safety and common sense were nonexistent. I despise Baldwin but I'm not of the opinion he's guilty of a crime. The production company and executives (which Baldwin is a key figure) are certainly civilly liable but I don't believe a crime was committed. I know that's an unpopular opinion but I try to be intellectually honest. Would I give a conservative leaning actor the benefit of the doubt under similar circumstances? Yes I would but only because I think the circumstances warrant such consideration. Therefore I have to be consistent and give Baldwin the same benefit of the doubt. Being an asshat and a liberal douchbage shouldn't factor into whether or not he committed a criminal act. I don't think he did. Sue the crap out of him and the production company but he shouldn't be charged with a crime for this IMO. YMMV
If you point a firearm at a person and they end up dead explain to me how that is not a crime? I respectfully disagree with your entire premise.
 
Have to disagree councilor. Under the definition of negligence it doesn’t say except for people acting in a movie. But this is why I don’t argue with made up nickname people on the internet. If you don’t believe in your convictions strong enough to use your real name the point is moot. Good day.
That's it? That's all you got? I use an internet alias and so now you don't want to continue having a discussion? I understand. You got nothing so you bail out with some nonsense excuse. You don't have to agree with me any more than I have to agree with you but this is a discussion forum and we're discussing a topic. Why is it so difficult for you to discuss it rationally and calmly? Why the vitriol? We just disagree on something. So what?
 
If some of you can't distinguish the difference between pointing a firearm at somebody in real life and pointing a movie prop at someone on a movie set I don't know what to tell you. Using that logic every actor that ever pointed a real gun at someone while acting is guilty of a crime. If he had pointed the gun at any other time he'd be reckless and or negligent but that cannot possibly be true while acting on a movie set or stage.
 
Ok, my apologies . first off it’s a real honest to gosh .45 Colt SAA pistol replica, not a prop as you say. Movie prop guns are not able to load real live ammunition. Real gun. If you and a buddy were playing around with real guns playing fast draw on each other and the real gun goes bang and your buddy gets whacked it’s not a good thing. It is negligent on your, and his, part knowing that it’s a dangerous thing to do and there was no intention of doing anything that would harm anyone. There is no malice afore thought. If it happened to you, being negligent in thinking it’s not loaded but knowing that it’s real, even being used as a prop, and you didn’t check it to see if it was unloaded or not, it’s negligent on your behalf and you’d be asked if you checked it or not by the ADA or whatever law enforcement agent conducting the interview.
1. there is no intentionally and knowingly and with malice afore thought.
2. You were not recklessly attempting to cause serious bodily injury or death.
3. You had under your control a firearm, to-wit a .45 SAA Colt replica capable of being loaded with actual live ammunition that you pointed at someone knowing that in the event it was loaded with real ammunition could cause serious bodily injury or death and you were negligent in pointing a firearm at another. A common theme now is that there are no accidental discharges, unless it’s a malfunction, which this was not, they are “Negligent Discharges”,
According to information released this was done during rehearsal where the pistol was not even needed. There are so many negligent actions by so many people on the set that it’s crazy. But the actions of the person that pulled the trigger, there is no other explanation on why the pistol fired, resulted in the death of a person.
Now the defense was able to have the real gun taken out of the equation to lesson the severity of the charges. Not even sure at this point that all the charges against anyone involved will be levied. So you and I are actually arguing over nothing. It’s one of those things were we get to see the rich and influential people get away with murder one more time.
 
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He wasn't pointing a firearm. He was pointing a movie prop and that isn't a crime.
Not even close to reality. Movie "props" that are also real guns are not somehow turned into fairy dust.

The armourer was not on duty nor was there budget for one - she had already maxed out her allowed time for the entire movie. Ignoring Industry safety protocols, resulting in death = gross negligence.

Baldwin, with a lifetime of movie work including the use of and handling of firearms, and being a knowledgeable producer, knew better.
 
Lots of people are killed in real life with guns because of accidental shootings but they are still held responsible.

I think the defense will have a real hard time absolving him of responsibility. A bit like saying I know my client ran over a pedestrian; however, he was drunk and didn't know what he was doing.

Not sure I would want to go to trial with my only defense of "...but I didn't know..." or "...it wasn't my fault".

Will he scoot on the criminal charges because he is famous and has money? Maybe, but this will also screw him civilly.
 
Lots of people are killed in real life with guns because of accidental shootings but they are still held responsible.

I think the defense will have a real hard time absolving him of responsibility. A bit like saying I know my client ran over a pedestrian; however, he was drunk and didn't know what he was doing.

Not sure I would want to go to trial with my only defense of "...but I didn't know..." or "...it wasn't my fault".

Will he scoot on the criminal charges because he is famous and has money? Maybe, but this will also screw him civilly.
Depends on how sympathetic the jury is in both aspects of the case. It’s a preventable tragedy all the way around but if I was a betting man I’d bet on him walking all the way.
 
Also it’s no secret that there are two tiers of the legal system. One for the rich and influential and one for others that are not. Baldwin has had a long lucrative career in the movie industry involving firearms so this is in no way the first time he’s ever picked one up and I’m sure he’s had safety briefings in the past. He’s also been very very vocal in chastising Americans for exercising their 2nd amendment rights.
 
Depends on how sympathetic the jury is in both aspects of the case. It’s a preventable tragedy all the way around but if I was a betting man I’d bet on him walking all the way.
Picking this jury is going to be very interesting knowing who the defendant is. Follywierd adoration could be a big factor.
 
One definition of involuntary manslaughter is: The unintentional killing of a person as a result of a reckless or negligent act, or as a result of the commission of a non-felony crime.

The movie scene required pointing the gun at someone and pulling the trigger. There were safety protocols in place to make sure the gun wasn't loaded. There were people specifically designated to make sure there wasn't loaded ammo in the gun or on the set. The actor (Baldwin) was handed a gun and told it was safe. He went through the motions of acting out the scene and in the process the gun fired.

Where did he act reckless? He was doing his job by acting out a scene where he was supposed to act out shooting another character with a movie prop gun.

Where was he negligent? He relied on the supporting staff to load the gun and they said it was safe. He had no reason to believe live ammo was in the gun or on the set.

What crime was he committing when the gun went off? None, he was acting on a movie set.

Now, civil liability is another matter. As one of the producers and executives of the production he had a managerial role in making sure all laws, rules and codes of safety were complied with. If they weren't he's guilty of not completely doing his job but the actual event itself was an accident. An accident caused by a culture of safety violations (firearms and otherwise) but an accident none the less. That makes him civilly liable but in my uneducated non-lawer opinion he didn't commit a crime.

In order to find him guilty of a crime the prosecution is going to have to prove he acted either recklessly (he didn't), he acted negligently (he didn't) or he was in the commission of a crime when the accident happened (he wasn't). Again, I cannot stand Baldwin. He's a first class jerk and blowhard. Neither of which are elements of the crimes he's been accused of. He will be acquitted.

Whether or not he should have personally checked the ammo to make sure it was blank ammo is an entirely separate question. I would have and probably most of you would have but we're gun nuts. What's normal protocol for those of us that routinely handle firearms is different from what an actor or non-firearms enthusiast might do. In a perfect world they would treat guns like we do but that's why they have armorers on the set to prevent this stuff. Whether or not the armorer was there and/or doing their job is a valid discussion but that's not the responsibility of the actor.
Regardless,

A soul of this world, a wife, a mother, a professional was killed by a negligent act with a firearm.
It comes down to this: Safe Firearms instruction that has been taught for generations, and not followed.

When I received my first gun, a .410 single shot at 9 years old, it was drilled into my head, by my father and grandfather: never point a gun at something you don't wish to destroy or kill. Period.

"You are ultimately responsible with this gun, when that shell or bullet is fired. You cannot take that back."

If Hollywood (generic term) would take that into account, and train people, none of this BS blame shifting would fly. I cannot fathom, in my mind, that ' well they (? who) said the gun was cold"

I have always thought that Alec Baldwin, is ultimately responsible for pointing and shooting a gun that killed Halyna Hutchins, and wounded Joel Souza. He damn well should have practiced safe gun handling. Know and check the difference between, DUMMY rounds, Blanks and Live Rounds.

I don't care if he is convicted criminally. Needs to be adjudicated as liable, for all the world to see and note.

I just hope that the Hutchin's and Souza families collect in civil lawsuits, such that Alec Baldwin will never be the same.

Their families won't.
 

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