Would you be happy?

[Sabre]

As an aside. Did anyone else notice that when the buffalo charges it looks and sounds like the client's rifle barrel gets squarely hit on the end by the buffalo's right horn? That paired with him moving backwards looks to be what knocks him to the ground.

That's about as close as you can get to being run over by a buffalo, I think. And probably the most pleasant way possible to be "hit by a buffalo" in a charge.

 

[SStomcat]

Again, my challenge would be, if that was the core point you were trying to make, why did you not simply state so in the OP, instead of posting the video with a ‘what do you think?’

My point is, it seems somewhat disingenuous to post it in this manner and then come in on top of responses that disagree with your unstated point, telling folks how wrong they are.

You state that a hearty discussion is good for the forum, yet, IMO, you set this one up like an ambush.

Interesting take—but let’s start with a small correction before the lecture continues.
My OP did not say “what do you think?”

It very clearly asked: “Would you be happy if the PH had to deliver the kill based on the video?”
That’s a question, not a manifesto, and certainly not some secret thesis hidden under the floorboards.

Calling that “disingenuous” is a bit rich. I didn’t move the goalposts—I just didn’t like where your answer landed. Big difference.

As for the ambush theory: sorry to disappoint, but this wasn’t a carefully orchestrated trap. It was a video, a specific question, and an open discussion—exactly the kind you claim to value, right up until someone disagrees with you.

And yes, you may be a very experienced DG hunter. Congratulations. Truly.
That still doesn’t make your interpretation immune from criticism, nor does it obligate me to sit quietly and take a lecture. Experience is valuable—but it’s not a force field, and it certainly doesn’t mean you know everything. I can assure you, there are things you don’t know. Just like the rest of us.

So let’s keep it simple:
Debate the question, not the character.
Disagree all you want—but spare me the moral high ground routine.

 

[DLSJR]

I’ve read every post on this thread and I think one thing clearly -the client was in over his head. He wasn’t terribly competent to hunt buffalo. If he’d made a better shot, all would have ended well. He didn’t and they were fortunate it didn’t end worse. IMO, he has no business hunting dangerous game in the future.

I wasn’t real impressed with the PH, either. His rifle handling left a lot to be desired, IMO. AND, he’s way out of shape to be leading dangerous game hunts. I would not want to follow a wounded buffalo or any other animal with him, that was capable of killing me. Is the sh*t truly hit the fan, I doubt he’s agile enough to move quickly when needed most desperately.

Also, videos like these are confirmation that some people hunt for notoriety, or clicks, views, whatever you want to call it; perhaps more than for the hunt itself. They post stuff-ups that should never be shared publicly. Some hunters would be better off just going hunting for hunting’s sake and not worrying about being the star of their own video.

But here is what I come away with more than anything else…

Lots of members debating various aspects of this, opining about what was done well or not, how it could have been done better. BUT… I’m left wondering how many of the members who’ve engaged in this discussion have any real first hand experience themselves dealing with tracking a wounded buffalo or other dangerous game, or have themselves faced a genuine, determined charge by any dangerous game animal. A fair number of comments made me wonder if the commenter had ever been anywhere near such a situation - and I concluded probably not for a large percentage of our armchair analyst group. Some comments struck me as theoretical or hypothetical rather than based on any personal experience with a situation similar to that which was presented. Maybe that’d be a good topic for a poll “Do you have actual experience following wounded Dangerous Game and facing an actual charge?”

 

[SStomcat]

I’ve read every post on this thread and I think one thing clearly -the client was in over his head. He wasn’t terribly competent to hunt buffalo. If he’d made a better shot, all would have ended well. He didn’t and they were fortunate it didn’t end worse. IMO, he has no business hunting dangerous game in the future.

I wasn’t real impressed with the PH, either. His rifle handling left a lot to be desired, IMO. AND, he’s way out of shape to be leading dangerous game hunts. I would not want to follow a wounded buffalo or any other animal with him, that was capable of killing me. Is the sh*t truly hit the fan, I doubt he’s agile enough to move quickly when needed most desperately.

Also, videos like these are confirmation that some people hunt for notoriety, or clicks, views, whatever you want to call it; perhaps more than for the hunt itself. They post stuff-ups that should never be shared publicly. Some hunters would be better off just going hunting for hunting’s sake and not worrying about being the star of their own video.

But here is what I come away with more than anything else…

Lots of members debating various aspects of this, opining about what was done well or not, how it could have been done better. BUT… I’m left wondering how many of the members who’ve engaged in this discussion have any real first hand experience themselves dealing with tracking a wounded buffalo or other dangerous game, or have themselves faced a genuine, determined charge by any dangerous game animal. A fair number of comments made me wonder if the commenter had ever been anywhere near such a situation - and I concluded probably not for a large percentage of our armchair analyst group. Some comments struck me as theoretical or hypothetical rather than based on any personal experience with a situation similar to that which was presented. Maybe that’d be a good topic for a poll “Do you have actual experience following wounded Dangerous Game and facing an actual charge?”

Good thoughts, even though a small majority of hunts end up in a charge, unless you are trying to be Mark Sullivan
That would be interesting to know - “Do you have experience following wounded Dangerous Game and facing an actual charge?”
As the OP, I do not mind switching topics to be more engaging and less divisive. So let's get the ball rolling with yours @DLSJR if I may request.

 

[DLSJR]

@SStomcat I was looking for your new thread with poll, but don’t see it yet. Or, were you simply asking us to post here and continue this thread? If you just want to continue here, I’ll start as you suggested:

Yes, I’ve got experience following wounded dangerous game. Specifically, buffalo.

Yes, I’ve got experience facing a determined charge. One buffalo cow and one elephant bull. In both cases my PH, Roy Vincent, was also shooting right alongside me. Both charges started from very close range, less than 15 yards.

 

[Hunt anything]

@SStomcat I was looking for your new thread with poll, but don’t see it yet. Or, were you simply asking us to post here and continue this thread?

I think someone recently started a thread o “have you been attacked” not sure if it’s unprovoked charges or wounded animal charges.

 

[Rimbaud]

Camo Carl had no business on that hunt. He’s lucky that he wasn’t hurt, and especially lucky that he didn’t hurt or kill the others who took him out.

 

[SStomcat]

I think someone recently started a thread o “have you been attacked” not sure if it’s unprovoked charges or wounded animal charges.

The thread is titled “Getting Attacked,” which is all-encompassing. Let’s allow it to continue with members sharing real experiences of being charged—whether while following up on wounded game or even when the animal was not wounded.

 

[steve white]

I seem to remember that Mark Sullivan's charges were all in the wide open, never at full speed popping unexpectedly out of the bush!
Kind of like hitting baseballs in a batting cage--you don't see the wind up of the pitcher--a ball just comes out of a hole at 80mph or higher. I hit every one of them...straight up the far right field line, lol. Which means I was barely getting my bat around. It makes a difference.
And with DG, little differences in speed, etc can have an adverse effect on your health.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

If you were the hunter, and the PH had to deliver the kill?

@SStomcat
Watching that I would be pissed off no end. He fired one shot and the finisher. The PH and the other person did the rest without the hunter firing a shot until the finish.
Not happy Jan

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I watched it but couldn’t really sort out what was going on. WTH? Hunter going on a DG buffalo hunt with an orange hat and orange camo jacket? May tell all you need to know about the hunter. I dunno?
IMO, they should all be happy no one was injured or worse!

@fourfive8
Don't know about hunting public land where you live but where I live you MUST wear blaze Orange when hunting public land. Doesn't upset the game in anyway. Can't see an issue if it helps to be seen
Bob

 

[SStomcat]

I do not believe the buffalo can distinguish between red and black. Google -
Cape buffalo are completely colorblind, experiencing a condition called monochromacy, which means they are
highly unlikely to be able to distinguish between orange and black as distinct colors. Their world is perceived in various shades of gray, much like a black and white photograph.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

If you were the hunter, and the PH had to deliver the kill?

If he didn’t, the client would be dead and he’d have a potential lawsuit into his hands,

 

[DaddyFlip]

@SStomcat I believe you are only asking about happiness with shots 5 and 6 from the two PH's where there did not appear (to us who were not there) to be any danger. We don't/can't know the circumstances of this particular hunt why the client did not get to shoot in that situation; if the client declined an offer to shoot or if the PH's said they will handle it from here and didn't allow the client to shoot. My guess is the circumstance was somewhere in between these; in the end, the client was happy. The other shots were inconsequential to our happiness: shot 1 by the client; shot 2 by the PH responding to the charge with the client alongside (who did not shoot); shots 3 and 4 by the two PH's as the bull was running away after the charge; and shot 7 the insurance shot by the client.

For the informal poll, I've never been to Africa, never hunted DG, never will. I enjoy learning about and engaging in the topic, though.

 

[steve white]

@SStomcat I believe you are only asking about happiness with shots 5 and 6 from the two PH's where there did not appear (to us who were not there) to be any danger. We don't/can't know the circumstances of this particular hunt why the client did not get to shoot in that situation; if the client declined an offer to shoot or if the PH's said they will handle it from here and didn't allow the client to shoot. My guess is the circumstance was somewhere in between these; in the end, the client was happy. The other shots were inconsequential to our happiness: shot 1 by the client; shot 2 by the PH responding to the charge with the client alongside (who did not shoot); shots 3 and 4 by the two PH's as the bull was running away after the charge; and shot 7 the insurance shot by the client.

For the informal poll, I've never been to Africa, never hunted DG, never will. I enjoy learning about and engaging in the topic, though.

Never say never....lol

 

[375Fox]

@SStomcat
Watching that I would be pissed off no end. He fired one shot and the finisher. The PH and the other person did the rest without the hunter firing a shot until the finish.
Not happy Jan

The hunters that would be upset about this don’t under the situation. It’s a wounded buffalo, early season with limited visibility, and going to be close. Every missed shot opportunity is an additional opportunity for a dangerous situation later on. I was in a similar situation earlier this year. We bumped the buffalo 7 times all under 10 yards over 2 days. We are lucky we never got a charge. Myself and the PH got 4 shots off at different points and none connected. Tracking a wounded buffalo isn’t walking upright following tracks. You crawl, you bend, it turns into a long day and wears on your nerves being on edge all day. We don’t know the conversations that took place or the condition of hunter at end of day. There may not be time to get hunter into position before buffalo breaks or charges again. You get an opportunity to make a good first shot, after that it’s about putting the buffalo down and keeping everyone safe.
I suppose per @SStomcat they could have flown a drone around and hovered over the buffalo. That would have allowed hunter time to recuperate and gotten him into a better shooting position knowing in advance exactly where Buffalo is, but that isn’t hunting. He looks pretty happy the way things turned out.

 

[M70375!]

I'm wondering why hunter and PH exchanged rifles after first shot.

 

[JimP]

I wonder just how much experience of shooting real quick that the hunter in the video had.

 

[SStomcat]

If he didn’t, the client would be dead and he’d have a potential lawsuit into his hands,

Golam Ji - I'd be curious to know why you think so? Based on the previous shot by the client and his fugly way of handling the rifle and general body language, it leads you to believe that the hiding buffalo could not be shot down a second time?

 

[DaddyFlip]

Golam Ji - I'd be curious to know why you think so? Based on the previous shot by the client and his fugly way of handling the rifle and general body language, it leads you to believe that the hiding buffalo could not be shot down a second time?

You are baiting respondents now. The issue is shots 5 and 6 in the bush. Client could have shot during the charge, which is why the PHs asked if the client actually shot during the charge. Client did not shoot during the charge and may not have been able to with his level of experience. I don't think you or anyone else is questioning the PHs shot at the charging buff. No one knows the circumstances of shots 5 and 6, so let it go.