Winchester Safari or Alaskan?

[HankBuck]

Sheesh, we’re really getting off topic now.

We get it Hank, you hate suppressors. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind about them and no one will change yours. Just move along.

@samson7x thanks Sam for your insightful post, I don’t hate Suppressors and have used them for specific applications (night hunting etc..) as previously described. Others like them for many uses and those born after 1980 might feel they “need” them…they are new to the Hunting scene and will become more common going forward. There is an intense focus on “gear” that did Not exist 50 years ago - likely due to media, advertising, hunting shows etc.. and my children and their Spouses reflect this: They Can’t hunt turkey without a Turkey Camo Shotgun and it also “needs” a scope/red dot etc.., Can’t hunt ducks without “motion decoys”, can’t deer hunt without 6 kinds of scent/piss etc.. I don’t contest that all these things can add value but None are “needed”. Some people are more interested in the “gear” then Learning How to Hunt & Shoot. Not trying to convince anyone, older hunters have commented on this before me and Younger Hunters don’t care what Old guys think —I sure don’t hunt like my Grandfather (but I still use his guns). I listen to everyone but respect those with real experience gained in the field, age could be a factor but Days-in-the-field weigh heavily. I know one Young hunter that hunts deer 90+ days a year and All on his own - he knows more then Me and has earned his knowledge thru direct observation —- I “learn” things from Him about deer and turkey hunting even though I’ve been hunting 30 years longer then him.

 

[Philip Glass]

Great points.

That TBAC can is the exact one I had in mind and I had the same thoughts as you. Currently trying to source a flat endcap when brake is removed. I haven't been able to find one but there's a guy on another forum attempting to put together a group buy from a local machinist to produce them. I'm a huge TBAC fan.

From what I understand you can get the brake and the cap from them. Is this not the case?

 

[samson7x]

From what I understand you can get the brake and the cap from them. Is this not the case?

On another forum, Zak has stated that their attorney has advised against producing an endcap because of how they read the law regarding “extra silencer parts.” Although many other manufacturers are doing it with apparently no issues? Regardless, it’s only a matter of time before someone steps in with an aftermarket solution.

 

[358 Norma]

Tinnitus is the reason I have all of my rifles treaded for suppressors. An unintended benefit is it reduces the felt recoil of my 458 win mags by about 1/3. I had three inches cut off of the 458 with no effect on accuracy and two inches cut off the 338 win mag and the accuracy actually improved. Using lightweight titanium suppressors the weight is a wash with the removal of a couple inches of barrel so handling remains the same.

And still not hearing safe!

 

[TMac]

@samson7x - I want the opinion of others (that are enamored with Suppressors) to explain “Why” would anyone cut down a barrel - likely affecting rifle performance - of a good rifle to accommodate a Suppressor? If that worried about barrel length, balance, awkwardness etc… consider Not adding a suppressor. It seems that having a Suppressor is becoming more important then having an accurate, well balanced rifle.

A shorter barrel with a suppressor can actually balance similar to the original longer barrel on a rifle. Handiness while hunting is another reason for the shorter barrel. Check out OTB style suppressors, some of the blast chamber is actually behind the muzzle over the barrel. AB Raptor, Unknown Munitions OG are examples. Those allow you to use a long suppressor but have less added length, maybe allowing one to not cut a barrel down.

A shorter barrel will cost velocity, but a suppressor adds some of that back. Pick your bullet with game, range and velocity in mind and I’ve not found it to be an issue. Handloaders can often find a slightly faster powder that helps mitigate some of the velocity loss as well.

I’m moving almost all my rifles to suppressed. They make shooting much more pleasant. Less blast, less recoil and much better for my hearing. I especially want my kids and grandkids shooting suppressed so they won’t end up with hearing loss from shooting.

While I prefer to buy a rifle with a shorter threaded barrel, I have cut several down. I have not had one show worse accuracy so far, in fact 2/3 show better accuracy after being cut down and used with a suppressor. Small sample size, so I am sure there is a real risk of worse accuracy.

I’ve yet to have anyone shoot one of my shorter barreled suppressed rifles and not really like it. They balance well and are very pleasant to shoot.

 

[codofish]

And still not hearing safe!

I agree. But there is no question it is safer than shooting the same rifle unsuppressed.

 

[codofish]

A shorter barrel with a suppressor can actually balance similar to the original longer barrel on a rifle. Handiness while hunting is another reason for the shorter barrel. Check out OTB style suppressors, some of the blast chamber is actually behind the muzzle over the barrel. AB Raptor, Unknown Munitions OG are examples. Those allow you to use a long suppressor but have less added length, maybe allowing one to not cut a barrel down.

A shorter barrel will cost velocity, but a suppressor adds some of that back. Pick your bullet with game, range and velocity in mind and I’ve not found it to be an issue. Handloaders can often find a slightly faster powder that helps mitigate some of the velocity loss as well.

I’m moving almost all my rifles to suppressed. They make shooting much more pleasant. Less blast, less recoil and much better for my hearing. I especially want my kids and grandkids shooting suppressed so they won’t end up with hearing loss from shooting.

While I prefer to buy a rifle with a shorter threaded barrel, I have cut several down. I have not had one show worse accuracy so far, in fact 2/3 show better accuracy after being cut down and used with a suppressor. Small sample size, so I am sure there is a real risk of worse accuracy.

I’ve yet to have anyone shoot one of my shorter barreled suppressed rifles and not really like it. They balance well and are very pleasant to shoot.

TMac, I agree with everything you said except for the part about a suppressor adding back velocity. I don't see how they can do that.

One rifle went from a 1 inch MOA to a 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards from the bench

 

[358 Norma]

I agree. But there is no question it is safer than shooting the same rifle unsuppressed.

Kind of like getting hit by a smart car going 55 mph vs a 3/4 ton truck going 55mph, but it's still doing damage.

 

[TMac]

TMac, I agree with everything you said except for the part about a suppressor adding back velocity. I don't see how they can do that.

One rifle went from a 1 inch MOA to a 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards from the bench

Chrono the short barrel with and without a suppressor. Seemed to add some velocity for me. Not enough to make up for cutting the barrel, but a little more suppressed than without. Gas is still pushing the bullet even while in the suppresser a little is my guess.

 

[samson7x]

TMac, I agree with everything you said except for the part about a suppressor adding back velocity. I don't see how they can do that.

One rifle went from a 1 inch MOA to a 1/2 inch MOA at 100 yards from the bench

It’s fairly common knowledge that suppressors can increase velocity. Usually negligible, but I’ve seen numbers as high as 50fps. Has to do with gasses still pushing the bullet inside the suppressor. Lots of variables with bore diameter, caliber, baffle design, etc but it is common nonetheless.

Likewise, I have also seen suppressors improve accuracy.

 

[Rifleman97]

The Monte Carlo of the Alaskan can lead to a bit more muzzle rise on recoil. Most of the complaints on the African are because the same barrel taper is used on the 458 wm as the 375, so the 375 with a smaller bore ends up being front heavy. Cutting the barrel down to 20 inches would truthfully fix most or all of the front heaviness. I don’t use suppressors so can’t attest to those but I’m sure someone makes an ultra light small suppressor that won’t mess with the balance too terrible much, although you will need to be careful on not having too big of a suppressor if you intend on continuing to use iron sights.

I’m a fan of the African but they’re both nice

 

[coreydb]

Suppressor definitely hits the cool factor, but totally unecessary with ~32db ear protection. I have a suppressor just cuz, but the ear protection is compact going through the bush.