When the good stuff doesn't work!!!

[Crishuntbrasil]

I know this post will stir up controversy. Many will disbelieve what I'm about to say, others will say my ammunition is slow and things like that, because I know you Americans love these bullets, but... I'm going to share here a few years of experience using monolithic bullets for big game hunting!

In almost 10 years of guiding hunting safaris in African countries, examining, collecting, and recording everything I can about hunting bullets and their actual performance against resilient African wildlife, I've discovered that monolithic expanding bullets, even the highest quality ones, when fired at the sides of animals at tight angles (back to front or front to back), can fail! What happens is that the tip deforms due to the lateral entry angle, and then the small opening responsible for initiating expansion closes! The bullet doesn't open and penetrate like a solid bullet. However, it doesn't behave like a solid bullet, often having an irregular trajectory within the animal. I've lost animals this way and had to finance others (mainly buffalo) injured by clients for exactly this reason! So, be careful with these shots at tight angles when using monolithic bullets without plastic tips! Important note: I love the Barnes TSX and especially the TTSX designs for buffalo. For every two or three hundred that work perfectly, I've had one that didn't. That's why I continue to use and recommend them.

 

[TOBY458]

Very interesting. It’s actual field experience like this that really helps people to decide on what bullets to use. Thanks!

 

[Rafiki]

I know this post will stir up controversy. Many will disbelieve what I'm about to say, others will say my ammunition is slow and things like that, because I know you Americans love these bullets, but... I'm going to share here a few years of experience using monolithic bullets for big game hunting!

In almost 10 years of guiding hunting safaris in African countries, examining, collecting, and recording everything I can about hunting bullets and their actual performance against resilient African wildlife, I've discovered that monolithic expanding bullets, even the highest quality ones, when fired at the sides of animals at tight angles (back to front or front to back), can fail! What happens is that the tip deforms due to the lateral entry angle, and then the small opening responsible for initiating expansion closes! The bullet doesn't open and penetrate like a solid bullet. However, it doesn't behave like a solid bullet, often having an irregular trajectory within the animal. I've lost animals this way and had to finance others (mainly buffalo) injured by clients for exactly this reason! So, be careful with these shots at tight angles when using monolithic bullets without plastic tips! Important note: I love the Barnes TSX and especially the TTSX designs for buffalo. For every two or three hundred that work perfectly, I've had one that didn't. That's why I continue to use and recommend them.

View attachment 704780

I don't have anywhere near the experience level that you do but this is exactly the reason that I prefer large meplat bullets regardless of the bullets construction for buffalo.

 

[Philip Glass]

It is interesting for sure. I've yet to see it. I've hunted with TSX in 5 calibers extensively. I would pose the question would other bullets also likely have some failure every 300 shots on game as well? Do you think the TTSX is better and why?
Thanks

 

[steve white]

Does the plastic tip on TTSX occupy a larger opening, thus creating more reliable opening of the petals?

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I had a similar experience with 375 Barnes TSX for my buffalo bull ... sorta. The first shot behind the shoulder quartering away slightly lodged in the ribcage of opposite shoulder. It had peeled like a banana and retained all but 2 gr of weight. The followup shot was facing us into the chest. That bullet deflected somehow and exited the back end of the ribcage striking the left rear knee joint and shattering it. Obviously, striking that much bone deformed the bullet significantly. The bullet was retrieved and it had lost about five grains. I suspect it probably left the ribcage pretty much intact. There wasn't much of an exit wound.

 

[Green Chile]

It is interesting for sure. I've yet to see it. I've hunted with TSX in 5 calibers extensively. I would pose the question would other bullets also likely have some failure every 300 shots on game as well? Do you think the TTSX is better and why?
Thanks

Well said. I have yet to see it as well but anything mechanical can fail. How some of us never/rarely see it while others see it often? I have been switching over to more of the TTSX, not because of failure but because it seems to be a little better design...the next evolution.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

This has occurred a few times over the years. Below is a 570Gr Barnes TSX (Federal Premium Cape Shok factory load) fired from a .500 Nitro Express Heym Model 89B with 26” barrels, which was recovered from a Cape buffalo. A quartering away shot had been taken, but the bullet didn’t expand at all.

In my opinion, lead cored expanding bullets still supersede monolithic expanding bullets for the time being.

 

[IvW]

I know this post will stir up controversy. Many will disbelieve what I'm about to say, others will say my ammunition is slow and things like that, because I know you Americans love these bullets, but... I'm going to share here a few years of experience using monolithic bullets for big game hunting!

In almost 10 years of guiding hunting safaris in African countries, examining, collecting, and recording everything I can about hunting bullets and their actual performance against resilient African wildlife, I've discovered that monolithic expanding bullets, even the highest quality ones, when fired at the sides of animals at tight angles (back to front or front to back), can fail! What happens is that the tip deforms due to the lateral entry angle, and then the small opening responsible for initiating expansion closes! The bullet doesn't open and penetrate like a solid bullet. However, it doesn't behave like a solid bullet, often having an irregular trajectory within the animal. I've lost animals this way and had to finance others (mainly buffalo) injured by clients for exactly this reason! So, be careful with these shots at tight angles when using monolithic bullets without plastic tips! Important note: I love the Barnes TSX and especially the TTSX designs for buffalo. For every two or three hundred that work perfectly, I've had one that didn't. That's why I continue to use and recommend them.

View attachment 704780

Exactly why I dont use them or recommend them......especially in larger slower calibers and definately not on dg......my 2c anyway...

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

It is interesting for sure. I've yet to see it. I've hunted with TSX in 5 calibers extensively. I would pose the question would other bullets also likely have some failure every 300 shots on game as well? Do you think the TTSX is better and why?
Thanks

Without a doubt, the plastic bridge prevents this from happening more frequently, in side shots where the tip of the project hits the side of the animal and closes the firing hole. However, I have some Hornady CX 180 bullets fired from 300 Win Mag that also didn't work, they didn't open, and look, I consider the CX the best monolithic bullets on the market today! We've hunted more than a thousand animals with them, always in 300 Win Mag caliber!

 

[Spearhead]

I am one of the believing "you Americans" that anything can happen. I use the 375 tsx in 300 grain, but my preference is A-frames.

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

Does the plastic tip on TTSX occupy a larger opening, thus creating more reliable opening of the petals?

Without a doubt, the plastic bridge prevents this from happening more frequently, in side shots where the tip of the project hits the side of the animal and closes the firing hole. However, I have some Hornady CX 180 bullets fired from 300 Win Mag that also didn't work, they didn't open, and look, I consider the CX the best monolithic bullets on the market today! We've hunted more than a thousand animals with them, always in 300 Win Mag caliber!

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

I am one of the believing "you Americans" that anything can happen. I use the 375 tsx in 300 grain, but my preference is A-frames.

lol... absolutely nothing against Americans, QUITE the opposite, without you and your wonderful industries, animals would be harder to die!! and if there's one thing I've learned in all these years getting dirty in shit and blood to find small bullets inside big animals is that there's a "ballistics of chaos"... bullets sometimes do unbelievable things until their energy runs out and they stop!

 

[Spearhead]

lol... absolutely nothing against Americans, QUITE the opposite, without you and your wonderful industries, animals would be harder to die!! and if there's one thing I've learned in all these years getting dirty in shit and blood to find small bullets inside big animals is that there's a "ballistics of chaos"... bullets sometimes do unbelievable things until their energy runs out and they stop!View attachment 704799

All good, I was merely poking fun back. I still am a huge fan of swift A-frames over Barnes, but I am a believer that anything can happen with any bullet. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Thanks for posting your experience and photos. Nothing is guaranteed in the world of hunting. Far too many uncontrollable things . Be safe.

 

[colorado]

I've been planning to switch to the 570g A-Frames in my 500 Jeffery. I have some (about 30) but am waiting for my pre-order from Swift to come through for 100 more. That being said, the two things I've shot with the 570g TSX (a 450 lb feral pig at 8 feet and a cow elk at 225 yards) the TSX has been devastating.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My PH said copper bullets require extra velocity to make them perform properly. I'd be interested to know others' thoughts on that.

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

I had a similar experience with 375 Barnes TSX for my buffalo bull ... sorta. The first shot behind the shoulder quartering away slightly lodged in the ribcage of opposite shoulder. It had peeled like a banana and retained all but 2 gr of weight. The followup shot was facing us into the chest. That bullet deflected somehow and exited the back end of the ribcage striking the left rear knee joint and shattering it. Obviously, striking that much bone deformed the bullet significantly. The bullet was retrieved and it had lost about five grains. I suspect it probably left the ribcage pretty much intact. There wasn't much of an exit wound.

Once, with my Sauer 202 in .375 HH, I got a perfect shoulder shot on a large male water buffalo! The herd was in the background, semi-hidden by the edges of the tall jungle. With the shot, they all ran, disappearing completely into the green of the jungle. The old bull had to do the same, but didn't have enough "gas" to reach the safety of the jungle. He fell dead before the edge of the field, safe in the shadows. I approached him carefully, and when I noticed, 30 meters to my right, a huge female with wide-open horns was walking with difficulty. She was limping, looking for an easier place to enter the bush. I looked through the scope and saw a bullet wound oozing a long stream of blood contrasting with the black fur on her right leg. Without delay, and even with her almost disappearing, I shot her in the back of the shoulder. She knelt and fell dead. Later I discovered that for some reason the 300-grain TSX went through the male without expanding, dropped a few inches, and hit the leg of this cow that I couldn't see 40 meters behind. It went through the entire leg and stopped inside the udder, barely expanded. I was impressed with the penetration capacity of the 375!

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

My PH said copper bullets require extra velocity to make them perform properly. I'd be interested to know others' thoughts on that.

A 300-grain .375 traveling at 2,500 fps is completely capable of perfect expansion out to 200 meters. I've done and seen this over a hundred times. When they fail, the blame isn't solely on velocity, as many people imagine.

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

All good, I was merely poking fun back. I still am a huge fan of swift A-frames over Barnes, but I am a believer that anything can happen with any bullet. Sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Thanks for posting your experience and photos. Nothing is guaranteed in the world of hunting. Far too many uncontrollable things . Be safe.

This week a client shot a zebra at 180 meters with a 30.06 using Federal Terminal Acsent 175 grain ammunition... (great bullet) the shot entered behind the shoulder and did not come out the other side, it came out in the chest, curved inside the animal and touched the ground at an incredible speed, if there had been another zebra walking next to this one (not behind but to the side) it would have been hit too, I have a film of this bizarre episode, I'll see if I can put it here for my friend to see! How inexplicable are bullets and their whims.

I don't know how to post the video here, so I paused the video and took a picture of the cell phone screen, see the shot enters behind the right shoulder, exits in the chest and hits the middle of the road raising dust, this happens so fast that the zebra hasn't felt the blast yet, how can the bullet make a curve like that?!!!

 

[Crishuntbrasil]

Well said. I have yet to see it as well but anything mechanical can fail. How some of us never/rarely see it while others see it often? I have been switching over to more of the TTSX, not because of failure but because it seems to be a little better design...the next evolution.

I'll explain why most people don't see them. This is because no one looks for them; hunters prefer to have a refreshing drink and wait for lunch in the comfort of the farmhouse. And I think that's the right thing to do after a long morning of hunting! My problem is that I can't. My curiosity is so great that I go straight to the skinning area. With my knife, I want to search everything, understand what happened, how this animal died, and recover the bullet.