When is enough gun actually enough?

[Zambezi]

I think it is more of a modern mindset. One now has to have a .318 cal for Eland and the .404J or .416 is juuuuust enough for jumbo. I've seen it many threads here that many advise the .458WM is the minimum they would hunt with.

Each to their own but I think sometimes it's just bigger for bigger sakes. I'll call BS to anyone who thinks the 30.06 is too light for Eland and that the .404J is about the smallest one should go for jumbo.

The humble .22 short CAN kill an elephant one does not require a .700NE or belt fed mortar!

 

[BeeMaa]

"Enough Gun" can be seen two ways. Enough gun for the quarry or (possibly) too much gun for the hunter.

As @Shootist43 and @Red Leg have stated, the caliber should match the game as close as possible. So a .30 and .375 caliber for travel to Africa is nearly perfect. Which exact calibers you choose will depend on your personal collection and opinion.

We chose our calibers (300WM and 375H&H) based on the fact that they use the same bolt head of the Blaser R8. It also gave me the opportunity to use the 416RM, which I did for a while before determining it was "too much gun" for what I wanted to do and sold it. If (when) I add another caliber it will most likely be the 257WBY, again because it uses the same bolt head.

All that said, the 375RUGER, 30-06 and 25-06 are all based on the same cartridge and will nearly duplicate what I have done.

The biggest question is if you are capable of handling the calibers you want. There are many people who can not shoot a .30 caliber rifle that weighs 8#, let alone a .375. It's what YOU are able to do that counts. With proper practice, almost anyone has the ability to shoot the mid and large bore rifles. Investing in the time it takes to do so with accuracy and consistency it the rub.

 

[machinistbutler]

I will be hunting whitetail this fall with my 470. 25/06 would work perfect, but I really like to use my new rifles as much as I can.

If I happen to run into anyone while hunting they will just assume I have a double barrel shotgun and am after grouse.

 

[bowjijohn]

Perhaps he found the limit to ''just enough gun''

 

[Nhoro]

In short, yes you can have too much gun.

Honestly, I shoot my 22 more accurately than my 30-06 and that a lot more accurately than my 458 Lott. For what I want to do, each has a purpose and I think I am competent with all rifles. I can hit a 5 " circle offhand at 40 m with my Lott under pressure. But it is not the right tool for an antelope.

I reckon you can also 'hunt' over too long distance. Yes, the guys 'on the line' can hit a mosquito at 300 m with a 700 NE, but I am just an ordinary guy. I practice at the range so that I can be reasonably competent with all of my rifles.

But above all, we must remember the pleasure of shooting and hunting-not everyone does it the same way and so for some taming a big bore is part of the pleasure. It is just when we project our criteria for hunting onto others that we start to have this discussion !

 

[Rickmt]

I shoot far more rimfire 22mag, 17wsm , etc than larger calibers. I definitely shoot them more accurately. I also enjoy shooting them a lot more than larger calibers.
I bought an inexpensive ruger predator in 204 to keep in my ranger at our cabin for coyotes and badgers. I typically shoot 1” groups . It came with a threaded barrel. I called silencer central in South Dakota and they sold me a Banish 30 caliber. They did all the paperwork and 10 months later I screwed it on my 204 and sighted it in . My 3rd group was 3 touching each other in center of bullseye.
I am no rifleman but I shoot smaller calibers better.
I am going to thread a 7mm rem mag next. My mountain carry rifles will remain unthreaded
Just my thoughts. Now I need to sight in my new 375hh!

 

[Tanks]

...

Each to their own but I think sometimes it's just bigger for bigger sakes. I'll call BS to anyone who thinks the 30.06 is too light for Eland and that the .404J is about the smallest one should go for jumbo.

The humble .22 short CAN kill an elephant one does not require a .700NE or belt fed mortar!

I'll pay money to see you try to stop an elephant charge with a .22 short.

I have always said one should use the largest caliber one can shoot comfortably and accurately for DG. In my case that is a .500 (NE or MDM bolt), .577 is too heavy to lug around for me even if I could shoot it well (never tried).

For PG there are way too many variables to consider, from the size of the animal to distance to personal preference.

 

[AZDAVE]

You asked a simple but also complex question. I have always been a big bore shooter, have said on more than one occasion that I fine everything below 40 Cal boring but very useful. (I shot a jackal with a 500 Jeff because that is what I had in my hand at the time) You being limited to the number of rilfes you can own. I would look at having 4 1. 22LR 2 . 22 hornet or 223 pick one 3. 30/06 or 300WM 4. 375 H&H or 416 of any flavor. pick one. if you select the 375 then would select the 30/06 due to the 180gr 06 and 300gr 375 having almost the same trajectory 0-300M.

This combo would give you the ability to hunt anything on the planet. If you want to be very traditional African cal 22lr, 7x57, 9.3x62, 404 Jeffery

 

[C.W. Richter]

375 HH Velocity is not particularly slow. It's essentially a 30-06 on steroids (similar velocity, 2x the bullet weight.) With lighter bullets, it's >3,000 fps. As it's primarily a DG caliber (but excellent for everything on earth,) most bullets are constructed tougher, notwithstanding its dimensions alone, and thus (much like a 3006) meat damage does not often occur.

Different calibers/cartridges for different purposes. I see the 3006 as the minimum for PG in Africa (there are hotter, smaller calibers with equal or larger cases that would do the job well, or dare I say better.? 6.5, 7 magnums, etc.) In America, the 3006 is a longer range 308 (and the 300 mags longer range 3006s.) In Africa, you will need some velocity and bullet mass (and a higher SD, better penetrating bullet) to get the job done effectively. A 100 lb impala in Africa is NOT equivalent to a deer in the US. Rather, it is constructed to withstand attacks by large toothed/fanged predators. I have seen even well-hit impala and springbok run quite a distance before expiring! Use more gun is not a fairy tale. It's fact-based. Read Kevin Robertson's books on same. Art Alphin has some great writeups in his book as well.

If you limit your range w/ the 308 (or better yet 7-08,) and select the proper bullets for the job at hand (it's not always the same,) you'll do just fine. I personally desire something with a tad more steam to get the job done no matter what the angle or (practical) range. Although my son shot piles of animals in Africa using a 3006 (and high SD 200-220 gr bullets,) I always opted for a 300 Win Mag, various 338s 375s when hunting PG in DG areas, and in some cases a hot, flat shooting 6.5. I look forward to bringing a 757AI (on par w/ a 7 mag) over to the Dark Continent oneday...If you handload, it is possible to make a 308 perform like a 3006 (the idea behind Hornady's Superformance ammo line, although I chronographed some loads using their powder and it didn't live up to the marketing claims!)

Far better in my opinion to immediately dispatch and collect an animal (that provides 1 less burger due to "meat damage," than blood-trailing in the bush (this holds very true for Kodiak Island as well!) Such meat damage can be reduced by using heavier, higher SD bullets. No matter what the MSM ad trends say, heavy for caliber bullets get the job done well on larger game and especially African game!

In the end, it's "whatever floats your boat," but when that first bullet strikes your Oryx and it charges to spears and rip your guts out, (or you spend extra time tracking wounded animals on a limited time safari) you may have wished you had more gun (.338 A-Sq in my case. Straight down! 'Had one come after me using a .338-06 prior, but luckily the 2nd shot put it down. That was its first and last "DG" hunt!) Fond memories...perhaps a little too fond! Good luck & Enjoy. .223-.243 need not apply in Africa...Here at home we use them for woodchucks.

 

[pajarito]

I'm trying to convince my wife that all species are caliber specific! therefore I need as many weapons as there are species. It was working good until she went with me to Cameroon where she watched me use the 375 H&H on everything from duiker to LDE and buff. PH told me to bring a handful of solids for the little guys and it worked perfectly just smoked nice clean little holes plum through em not really damaging cape or meat nearly as much as a swift or 22-250 that blows up

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

@Rocked and Loaded
Both schools of thought are correct use the biggest you can shoot comfortably and shot placement is the thing that matters.
No use putting ANY bullet in the wrong spot but is bigger better. To me yes but just because I like putting big holes in things.
Bob

I agree. My point was more about people (mostly new shooters or armchair hunters) who religiously quote axioms without regard to why they are true.

One new hunter hears that shot placement is paramount and decides his 243 is a suitable rifle for eland because he’s a decent paper puncher off the bench while another hears that bigger is always better and decides the 30-06 he shoots so well is inadequate for brown bear and heads to Alaska with a shiny 416 he’s barely had time to practice with.

That’s the real value of this forum. There’s a great deal of experience here and it helps put axioms in their proper context.

 

[uplander01]

The question IMO gets far more interesting if you ask "if you could only have one rifle?" Then the choice is quite simple, 375 HH, for everywhere and everything. Good enough for Africa and able to handle most pinches, and when you start walking the earth with Brown Bears and giant Moose in Alsaka or canada, it feels small but will do the job very very well. Lighter 270gr bullet for deer size game, flat and fast. Lets not forget that one of the world record sheep killed in Alaska was killed with a 404 jeffery. Most of the "speed" super calibers were designed so the corporate part of our industry has something to sell and make money. Also, when was the "hunting" lost in our industry? Why on earth would anyone want to shoot at something 500 yards away? Maybe a guy should start getting some exercise and do some push ups or something and actually really hunt and get close.....I really respect archery guys for that simple reason. Its not like any of us are going to starve if we don't put something on the ground.

 

[Tanks]

... Why on earth would anyone want to shoot at something 500 yards away? Maybe a guy should start getting some exercise and do some push ups or something and actually really hunt and get close....

Have you ever been sheep hunting in the mountains of Turkey, Pakistan etc. ? Some of the shots are long and impossible to get close without spooking the animals (no cover).

 

[Tanks]

...

Far better in my opinion to immediately dispatch and collect an animal (that provides 1 less burger due to "meat damage," than blood-trailing in the bush (this holds very true for Kodiak Island as well!) ...

Not to mention if one is in Africa, one is not hunting for the pot (even though the meat is given away). Meat damage is the least of my worries.

 

[Zambezi]

I'll pay money to see you try to stop an elephant charge with a .22 short.

I have always said one should use the largest caliber one can shoot comfortably and accurately for DG. In my case that is a .500 (NE or MDM bolt), .577 is too heavy to lug around for me even if I could shoot it well (never tried).

For PG there are way too many variables to consider, from the size of the animal to distance to personal preference.

I also called BS re the .22 short but it is a documented fact... the poacher admitted in court and one of the past great game wardens carried it out just to see if it was true... it was

Would I try it? Hell no!!!! There's not enough beer in the world .... actually wait, hold my beer...

 

[HWL]

Enough gun is like female breasts.

There is a perfect size, that attracts me.

I love the big ones.

But not to big.

I cannot handle comfortably those are to big... and feel underguned when they are to small.

Is .416 Rigby double D size?




HWL

 

[uplander01]

HWL, That is the best way to put it,.......EVER.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I am limited to two for my for my upcoming hunt. a Heym 88B in 9.3x74R and a Heym 88B in .500 NE. I think I have just about any game in Zimbabwe covered with those two.

BTW, before anyone comments, I put those rifles in the case for CBP to inspect, I am in the process of cutting foam to form fit the rifles in the case.

View attachment 408443

Oh wow, that is all I can say.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Much like the OP I have also noticed this push for bigger than necessary calibres. Take for example my 30.06. It used to be perfectly suitable to take anything from Eland down. Good shot placement and decent bullets and everyone was happy. No we see a large portion of the hunting fraternity saying a 180gn out my 30.06 is "marginal" or they wouldn't attempt it happily.

Now I'm NOT advocating using a 30.06 for jumbo but it has been used (Rhodesian army FN with ball ammo during the war) and it worked. Now all of a sudden a 30.06 is marginal for Eland.....

I get the "use enough gun" mantra but hell's teeth not everything has to be deader than dead.

Enough is enough, and too much is too much.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Nobody mentions Phil Masaro here, I think his Heym you tube clips are great. Watch his one on the 450/400 double on the Mazambican buffalo. QED. So that is definitely enough.
Now if you like bigger, just say you like bigger, it's ok, but don't try to say it is necessary, because it has been shown otherwise.