What rifle do you totally trust on dangerous game and what rifle do you mistrust on Dangerous game

[Philip Glass]

Thanks for clarifying, I did not know, I have no experience with them in the larger calibers and it’s most likely going to be worked hard in an emergency.

Sure. This experience is why I tell guys to go to the range and try to break your rifle. Abuse it in every way imaginable. You must know any quirks before something is bearing down on you to kill you. I shudder at the thought of guys sitting at a bench loading each shell by hand and gently closing the bolt and taking a perfect bench shot and never doing anything else.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Deer season here (Iowa) is in the middle of December, and antlerless is in January, so if I wore clothes like that I'd probably freeze! The coat I usually end up wearing is a carhart with a sweatshirt and long sleeve shirt underneath, sometimes a base layer beneath that, which doesnt really lend well to being tucked up. So its either wear calving gloves, or get blood soaked through all of my layers on the sleeves, or take my two outermost layers off and freeze. Taking off the coat is simply too cold, especially on windier days or January antlerless where the temps can some years get down into the -25C to -30C range. The calving gloves make it so I can leave all my layers on.

This is typical hunting weather for me. More severe in the old days when I hunted moose in Canada.

 

[Jim Golden]

Do you mean in relation to certain types and also brands of rifles? Regardless of caliber, I suppose. This question is not easy to answer objectively. There will certainly be as many different answers as there are people answering.

As far as I am concerned, for me the best rifles for hunting DG are those built on Mauser actions, followed by those built with M1917 Enfield actions or Mannlicher-Schoenauer actions. As the various break-actions are concerned, only the double rifles of well-know gunmakers. All of these rifles have proven themselves in the field over the more than 100 years they have been in use.

At the other end of the spectrum are all these technically complex bolt actions, such as those from Blaser for example, in which I have no trust when hunting DG. This also includes all the cheap very affordable double rifles.

I like your posts. You look to speak of experience. I built my own rifle, on an Enfield Model 1917 action, with a 30" Douglas barrel, in .375 Weatherby. It's a neat cartridge that can also shoot .375 H&H's out of the chamber. I handload, and my loads are 2889 ft/s with a 300 grain bullet. More powerful than a .458 Winchester. But, I have a second rifle in the works, also a Model 1917 Enfield, being built right now. The gunsmith called me the other week and said it's now chambered.... .460 Weatherby. 26" barrel, so a bit shorter than my Super Custom, but has the same A-Square stock. Open sights only on the .460. I want to take them both to Africa and get a Cape Buffalo. Or two. I like building rifles

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

I trust both my custom built .500 Jeff and my Ruger RSM .416 Rigby. I’ve started shooting a double .470. My double is an extractor model. As a competitive Trap & Skeet shooter I prefer an extractor in that application. However, in a dangerous game encounter I imagine most want ejectors. Need more trigger time with my double. With that said, I otherwise don’t have a rifle I distrust.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Sure. This experience is why I tell guys to go to the range and try to break your rifle. Abuse it in every way imaginable. You must know any quirks before something is bearing down on you to kill you. I shudder at the thought of guys sitting at a bench loading each shell by hand and gently closing the bolt and taking a perfect bench shot and never doing anything else.

There are many of us here that have well maintained, well looked after, high quality guns that of course can be trusted 100%, not excluding operator errors though.
The thought of going into some sort of ape-mode at the range.. to qualify for some sort of AH Fail Army Medal of Honor.. Heck, noooo.

Maybe we should issue a new award here?)) The AHFAMH award.

 

[BJH65]

There are many of us here that have well maintained, well looked after, high quality guns that of course can be trusted 100%, not excluding operator errors though.
The thought of going into some sort of ape-mode at the range.. to qualify for some sort of AH Fail Army Medal of Honor.. Heck, noooo.

Maybe we should issue a new award here?)) The AHFAMH award.

Too funny. I understand Phil’s point however although I may not use the word “abuse.” Nothing wrong with thoroughly testing your rifle with live fire practice and rapid reloading, vigorously working the bolt with a full magazine, lots of dry fire practice with dummy rounds, insuring the ammunition you’re using loads and feeds correctly, insuring your optics and mounts are secure and hold zero and if I’m hunting sub zero weather I remove all oil and grease from the bolt. I’m not going to tie a rope to it and drag it along a gravel road with my pickup however!

 

[Accidental Villain]

Too funny. I understand Phil’s point however although I may not use the word “abuse.” Nothing wrong with thoroughly testing your rifle with live fire practice and rapid reloading, vigorously working the bolt with a full magazine, lots of dry fire practice with dummy rounds, insuring the ammunition you’re using loads and feeds correctly, insuring your optics and mounts are secure and hold zero and if I’m hunting sub zero weather I remove all oil and grease from the bolt. I’m not going to tie a rope to it and drag it along a gravel road with my pickup however!

Absolutely, sure, we agree 100% of course, and the things you mention are almost all within what I call well looked after and well maintained category.
That is,, personally, I almost never take my DG rifle(s) to the range. I have other rifles with quite similar set-up that I put rounds thru, shoot PPC sometimes IPSC and skeet. I don`t use optics and don`t think the sight on my main DG rifle ever have been adjusted for some 60+ years. It hits a nail head on about 50 meters with everything I put in it though.
Anyways, a hunter failing to do the things you mention might surprisingly make him/her eligible for the shameful AHFAMH award

 

[Philip Glass]

There are many of us here that have well maintained, well looked after, high quality guns that of course can be trusted 100%, not excluding operator errors though.
The thought of going into some sort of ape-mode at the range.. to qualify for some sort of AH Fail Army Medal of Honor.. Heck, noooo.

Maybe we should issue a new award here?)) The AHFAMH award.

I have to be over the top with my language to get the point across. Don't misunderstand me. I don't mean throw your gun across the range I simply mean don't be that jackass that I describe loading each cartridge one by one into the chamber, allowing the rifle to fully cool before taking another shot, and then cleaning your rifle after each range session perfectly. Never loading a full mag and shooting as rapidly as you can to test your rifle. Never working the bolt hard because don't forget this is a so and so custom built rifle and it's perfect and it costs $X.......
Before you heckle me any further Remember where my advice comes from. I was nearly killed because I HAD NOT done what I describe here. My advice on AH does not come from pride but simple experience.

 

[Jon Glajchen]

Custom 416 Rigby on a Brno ZKK 602 action, a rifle I totally trust for dangerous game!

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

The thought of going into some sort of ape-mode at the range.. to qualify for some sort of AH Fail Army Medal of Honor.. Heck, noooo.

Maybe we should issue a new award here?)) The AHFAMH award.

I have to be over the top with my language to get the point across. Don't misunderstand me. I don't mean throw your gun across the range I simply mean don't be that jackass that I describe loading each cartridge one by one into the chamber, allowing the rifle to fully cool before taking another shot, and then cleaning your rifle after each range session perfectly. Never loading a full mag and shooting as rapidly as you can to test your rifle. Never working the bolt hard because don't forget this is a so and so custom built rifle and it's perfect and it costs $X.......
Before you heckle me any further Remember where my advice comes from. I was nearly killed because I HAD NOT done what I describe here. My advice on AH does not come from pride but simple experience.

Our friend @Philip Glass is the sage of wisdom gained from experience. While I don’t agree with him about reloading one’s own ammo for dangerous game hunts and quick release scope mounts, I follow his advice on everything else. Problems with the stated areas are always operator error.

In the Marines and most other military services, units “train as they fight”. That adage fits into another, “You go to war with what you have”, meaning trained personnel, highly maintained equipment, and the necessary logistics (beans, bullets, and bandages)! My perception of African hunting, especially for dangerous game, is of a firefight or maybe for others, a bar fight. Short, intense, and bloody. For this. the hunter may well slip into their most basic primal behavior for a few brief seconds when engaging their prey. At least I do. Colonel David Willis, C.O. of the Marine Corps Shooting Teams some 40 years ago referred to this as having “tunnel vision”. Nothing but the target, sight alignment and picture, position, wind, and trigger squeeze.

Aboard ship sailors train, train, and train at their assigned General Quarters stations so that during the time for challenging, for them it the sea challenging, their reactions will be subconsciously automatic. I think firemen do the same. My opinion of sailors increased by ten-fold as I witnessed their training put into action. When shxt hit the fan, they knew their shxt! When facing danger no matter what that may be, our reactions must be perfectly executed actions.

As an handloader of over 50 years, starting at 13 years old, I won’t hunt without my own loads. That stated, running a rifle’s bolt as fast and as hard as I can accurately shoot, often dents the mouth of the cartridge case. But dents be darned, I must train as I will shoot if necessary a second and third shot at some angry critter fast approaching me on constant bearing, decreasing range (CBDR for my Navy friends).

This link is to a private video of me working the bolt hard on a pre-production Montana Rifle Company's TSAVO rifle in .375 H&H. The 5th cartridge didn’t chamber which was exactly why @Imac45acp of MRC let me put that rifle through the paces almost a year ago. I operated the bolt slightly different than would he or his MRC colleagues which identified a problem. Call it an operation test from which the data was analyzed to correct the test article’s deficiency. This won’t be a problem in their soon to be released production rifles!

Notice I had slipped into a phone booth and donned part of my old Superman suit... Oh, to be that young again

 

[mitch4570]

I have to be over the top with my language to get the point across. Don't misunderstand me. I don't mean throw your gun across the range I simply mean don't be that jackass that I describe loading each cartridge one by one into the chamber, allowing the rifle to fully cool before taking another shot, and then cleaning your rifle after each range session perfectly. Never loading a full mag and shooting as rapidly as you can to test your rifle. Never working the bolt hard because don't forget this is a so and so custom built rifle and it's perfect and it costs $X.......
Before you heckle me any further Remember where my advice comes from. I was nearly killed because I HAD NOT done what I describe here. My advice on AH does not come from pride but simple experience.

Excellent advice.

 

[Surgeon1]

I have 3 Heym DR and several Dakota 76 in DG calibers and would trust any of them in a DG tight spot,
otherwise, they would be gone! The most proven is an 88B in 450-400 which has been flawless, I know it's a little light but so far it has been as deadly on Buffalo as I could ask for. The 470NE is proven
and the 500 has never been to Africa. Can't see myself using the 2 big guns for buffalo but for elephants and hippo on land will likely move up. A good friend has taken 14 elephants with an identical 450-400 with great results so I know it would be fine in most cases. With a big bull not in musk it is likely to be my choice but a nasty old cow a 470-500 would maybe be my choice.
Back to Uganda in February so it will be 450-400 with A-frames for buffalo. It's a place where getting in real close is tougher to do, so I'll have a bolt gun for backup & for their wonderful PG.
"When coming in downwind and you can smell an old Dugga Boy's breath, he is close enough to kill"

 

[Surgeon1]

@Phill Glass is likely right in his choice of a Kreighoff and an R8 with their non-conventional cocking/safety mechanism. I personally don't like the R8 (even though I have a beautiful one with 3 barrels) because of switching back and forth between it and my beloved Mod 70 type actions that I've used for 60+ yrs could result in a screw up! Most of the PHs I've hunted with are all willing to tell stories of clients who have screwed up with those non-conventional systems, and I've yet to find a PH who doesn't have several. But I will say perceived margarine of safety they offer that could be comforting in the trained hands.
To have a DR and your "bolt" gun have the same battery of arms is the only thing that makes sense.
However, I'll keep using my conventional DR (the battery of arms is like my bird guns) and the Mod 70 systems because they are so deeply trenched in my old brain that it's unlikely I could ever root it out for something new!

 

[rookhawk]

My faith in a rifle is not just of the camp "mauser CRF" or "Heym or British Double", but there's even more to it.

I need to know that I can pop a scope off in a nanosecond for an emergency follow up on a wounded animal. That optic must return to zero without another sight-in thereafter.

This requirement obviously makes me automatically distrustful of any dangerous game rifle that lacks express sights.

 

[Accidental Villain]

I have to be over the top with my language to get the point across. Don't misunderstand me. I don't mean throw your gun across the range I simply mean don't be that jackass that I describe loading each cartridge one by one into the chamber, allowing the rifle to fully cool before taking another shot, and then cleaning your rifle after each range session perfectly. Never loading a full mag and shooting as rapidly as you can to test your rifle. Never working the bolt hard because don't forget this is a so and so custom built rifle and it's perfect and it costs $X.......
Before you heckle me any further Remember where my advice comes from. I was nearly killed because I HAD NOT done what I describe here. My advice on AH does not come from pride but simple experience.

I don`t think we`re far apart, but you still wrote "Abuse it in every way imaginable" so you definitely raised my eyebrows and I got very weird pics on my mind... Making sure a DG rifle is 100% reliable under field conditions are quite obvious. I`ve had concerns myself wanting to tap into the power potential of my rifle opting for a hefty charge behind a heavier bullet than normal that in turn would potentially put more strain on the stock, magazine spring etc, so I of course had it professionally assessed. All turned up good tho, and the both of us are still in one piece.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Our friend @Philip Glass is the sage of wisdom gained from experience. While I don’t agree with him about reloading one’s own ammo for dangerous game hunts and quick release scope mounts, I follow his advice on everything else. Problems with the stated areas are always operator error.

In the Marines and most other military services, units “train as they fight”. That adage fits into another, “You go to war with what you have”, meaning trained personnel, highly maintained equipment, and the necessary logistics (beans, bullets, and bandages)! My perception of African hunting, especially for dangerous game, is of a firefight or maybe for others, a bar fight. Short, intense, and bloody. For this. the hunter may well slip into their most basic primal behavior for a few brief seconds when engaging their prey. At least I do. Colonel David Willis, C.O. of the Marine Corps Shooting Teams some 40 years ago referred to this as having “tunnel vision”. Nothing but the target, sight alignment and picture, position, wind, and trigger squeeze.

Aboard ship sailors train, train, and train at their assigned General Quarters stations so that during the time for challenging, for them it the sea challenging, their reactions will be subconsciously automatic. I think firemen do the same. My opinion of sailors increased by ten-fold as I witnessed their training put into action. When shxt hit the fan, they knew their shxt! When facing danger no matter what that may be, our reactions must be perfectly executed actions.

As an handloader of over 50 years, starting at 13 years old, I won’t hunt without my own loads. That stated, running a rifle’s bolt as fast and as hard as I can accurately shoot, often dents the mouth of the cartridge case. But dents be darned, I must train as I will shoot if necessary a second and third shot at some angry critter fast approaching me on constant bearing, decreasing range (CBDR for my Navy friends).

This link is to a private video of me working the bolt hard on a pre-production Montana Rifle Company's TSAVO rifle in .375 H&H. The 5th cartridge didn’t chamber which was exactly why @Imac45acp of MRC let me put that rifle through the paces almost a year ago. I operated the bolt slightly different than would he or his MRC colleagues which identified a problem. Call it an operation test from which the data was analyzed to correct the test article’s deficiency. This won’t be a problem in their soon to be released production rifles!

Notice I had slipped into a phone booth and donned part of my old Superman suit... Oh, to be that young again

I get it with regards to the military in this context. Getting out of the army, (I believe I had something like 5 or 6 shooting/marksmanship awards) I immediately started working in the gun business, among other things believing I could whack almost anything with anything that went kaboom..partly brainwashed, and totally forgetting what I`ve learned growing up with "English" type guns.
Then there comes this wise guy to my workplace (I`m sure it was the sales rep for either S&B or Zeiss) and we got talking, and he served me the sales pitch of the year saying; "Provided you have a perfectly working rifle...whats the most important part of it..?.. sights,,, RIGHT! A good rifle with crap sights will still be a crap rifle won`t it.."
Then I was like, hell no, what a sales pitch!!, but then about a half year later I was charged by a bear (all went well, still here and whacked the bear) and I was very unhappy with my own performance and equipment. Anyways, after a couple of sips of Royal Canadian I recalled those words of wisdom..
.. sights,,, RIGHT! so true, so true.
And that would be my take on the question of which rifle I would trust. Good sights, good irons preferably a short 1/4 rib.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I get it with regards to the military in this context. Getting out of the army, (I believe I had something like 5 or 6 shooting/marksmanship awards) I immediately started working in the gun business, among other things believing I could whack almost anything with anything that went kaboom..partly brainwashed, and totally forgetting what I`ve learned growing up with "English" type guns.
Then there comes this wise guy to my workplace (I`m sure it was the sales rep for either S&B or Zeiss) and we got talking, and he served me the sales pitch of the year saying; "Provided you have a perfectly working rifle...whats the most important part of it..?.. sights,,, RIGHT! A good rifle with crap sights will still be a crap rifle won`t it.."
Then I was like, hell no, what a sales pitch!!, but then about a half year later I was charged by a bear (all went well, still here and whacked the bear) and I was very unhappy with my own performance and equipment. Anyways, after a couple of sips of Royal Canadian I recalled those words of wisdom..
.. sights,,, RIGHT! so true, so true.
And that would be my take on the question of which rifle I would trust. Good sights, good irons preferably a short 1/4 rib.

Just curious, does a quarter rib contribute anything to a gun's potential performance? Is it anything more than cosmetic?

 

[Accidental Villain]

Just curious, does a quarter rib contribute anything to a gun's potential performance? Is it anything more than cosmetic?

Cosmetic? A 1/4 rib most certainly contribute under certain conditions. There are very good reasons why 1/4 ribs are somewhat popular over here specially for driven hunts. Most hunters as I use a low powered illuminated scope, reflex sight or whatever. But you have the option to kick the optics off. Nice when facing gut shot wildboars. Those things are nasty. With a good correctly installed 1/4 rib there are nothing obstructing your aiming eye. Tikka still make the Battue model I beleive. Its not for cosmetic reasons.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Cosmetic? A 1/4 rib most certainly contribute under certain conditions. There are very good reasons why 1/4 ribs are somewhat popular over here specially for driven hunts. Most hunters as I use a low powered illuminated scope, reflex sight or whatever. But you have the option to kick the optics off. Nice when facing gut shot wildboars. Those things are nasty. With a good correctly installed 1/4 rib there are nothing obstructing your aiming eye. Tikka still make the Battue model I beleive. Its not for cosmetic reasons.

Scope attaches to quarter rib? I did not know that. Interesting. Over here we have quick detach rings that allow the scope to be "kicked off" for unobstructed access to iron sights. I have Warne QD rings on both my dangerous game 404J and my plains game 30-06. Both rifles also wear 1990s Winchester Safari Express iron sights (made by Williams) that are fully adjustable for elevation or windage. No quarter rib needed.

 

[Accidental Villain]

Scope attaches to quarter rib? I did not know that. Interesting. Over here we have quick detach rings that allow the scope to be "kicked off" for unobstructed access to iron sights. I have Warne QD rings on both my dangerous game 404J and my plains game 30-06. Both rifles also wear 1990s Winchester Safari Express iron sights (made by Williams) that are fully adjustable for elevation or windage. No quarter rib needed.
View attachment 731455

No, the scope is not attached to the rib on any of my rifles. I have more «flexible» QD options. Those German claw mounts are however excellent as also the H&H/Rigby side mount. We’ll see. My youngest son is dialed in on a couple of my bangers so there night be some openings for something new in the near future.. Tought him to use a rifle when he was drafted by the army a couple of years ago and now he is in the Kings Royal Guard, decorated and having a ball.
He is on standby as we speak so hope he is somewhat bored..