Westley Richards Shotgun Help

[rgsiii]

The bottom line is to educate yourself and buy right. Unfortunately a lot of the learning curve may involve poor purchases.

 

[Red Leg]

I have a fairly hard earned and rather expensive education in buying SxS shotguns. It is very difficult to do so with surety over the internet unless the seller is someone with an established track record and expertise. The more serious potential issues such as wall thickness, barrel solder, springs, etc can't be seen in a photograph.

All that said, this has the potential to be an extraordinary gun. A non-composed two-barrel, drop-lock set in this apparent condition should sell well north of $20K. This is also a high grade gun with the scalloped action and close to best quality engraving.

With respect to the stock, it could be a replacement or a refinish. The inletting at the action looks very professional, the grain flow is perfect for a SxS, and the quality of the stock is exceptional. The case coloring is correct for a gun of that period indicating that it was refurbished or refreshed properly. The engraving, both on barrels and action (with exception of perhaps the trigger guard - though it could be the photo), show no sign that it has been the victim of a North American or other polishing wheel. Most screws are properly indexed and do not look buggered (the top spindle set screw being the exception).

 

[rookhawk]

Can anyone shed some light on this WR 12 gauge? Everything look legit? Approximate value?

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/981438467

Thanks in advance!

This is a reputable seller, one of the few I buy from on GA.

The missing factor to assess value is minimum wall thickness. You don't buy a gun without that info.

If walls are good, you're looking at a $8,500-$12,000 gun.

The gun was definitely restored. As others have stated, the stock finish isn't correct but that can be solved for $700, max. It is almost certainly restocked with the long length of pull evident.

 

[discap]

"To reinforce your comments on pressure, notice that the WR only has a top extension for locking"
Actually, it has a double underbite. The top extension is a 3rd bite, locking the barrels down in 3 places.

Yep you are correct I did not look through all the pictures. Mine only had the extension, I assumed this one to be the same.

 

[mikecatt13]

This is a reputable seller, one of the few I buy from on GA.

The missing factor to assess value is minimum wall thickness. You don't buy a gun without that info.

If walls are good, you're looking at a $8,500-$12,000 gun.

The gun was definitely restored. As others have stated, the stock finish isn't correct but that can be solved for $700, max. It is almost certainly restocked with the long length of pull evident.

The seller is unable to provide wall thickness.

So that's concerning based on my little bit of knowledge I've accumulated this week.

It was definitely restocked. It looks to me like one barrel has matching serials and the other does not, so likely was just bought and added to the package at some point?

Also trying to figure out if the 1 1/8 NP needs 2 1/2" or would 2 3/4" like 7/8 oz 1200 fps #8s be fine after a rechamber?

I'd probably rather get the equipment to reload vs be at the mercy of RST which has buying limits and apparently is out of stock for months at a time

 

[Red Leg]

This is a reputable seller, one of the few I buy from on GA.

The missing factor to assess value is minimum wall thickness. You don't buy a gun without that info.

If walls are good, you're looking at a $8,500-$12,000 gun.

The gun was definitely restored. As others have stated, the stock finish isn't correct but that can be solved for $700, max. It is almost certainly restocked with the long length of pull evident.

Missed it was actually a composed two-barrel set. Still good luck finding a two-barrel high grade drop lock set composed or otherwise for 12000. Barrel thickness is worrisome if he can’t or won’t provide it.

 

[BGHNTR416]

I use a Hosford wall thickness gauge. I have sent two guns back from internet purchases and have another that I should have sent back. I always measure, even if provided by the seller. This droplock WR shotgun was a best quality gun when it was built (and still is). Discap, your WR without a double underbite is a VERY early gun most likely. I have a Williams & Powell that has no underbites and is rib extension lock up only.

 

[mikecatt13]

Missed it was actually a composed two-barrel set. Still good luck finding a two-barrel high grade drop lock set composed or otherwise for 12000. Barrel thickness is worrisome if he can’t or won’t provide it.

They said they have a 30 day return policy if it doesnt measure well. John Hosford is local to me so he could check it out. It didnt meet Reserve, I havent followed up yet as I'm still looking into options of other guns and brands. Debating mostly between something classic like this or just get a Dickinson or Beretta and shoot the hell out of it for 3-5k

 

[BGHNTR416]

At that price point you have a LOT of classic British guns out there to consider. But if you truly plan to "shoot the hell out of it" either buy a newer gun or look into a boxlock pigeon gun.

 

[mikecatt13]

At that price point you have a LOT of classic British guns out there to consider. But if you truly plan to "shoot the hell out of it" either buy a newer gun or look into a boxlock pigeon gun.

That's probably an exaggeration lol. But I do shoot over unders quite a bit. This would get minimal use comparatively but easily 1000 rounds a year, maybe more

 

[BGHNTR416]

That is a lot of rounds on a vintage gun. I would be looking for a heavy proof gun if going vintage. Again, a pigeon gun with 1 1/4 ounce proofs (2 3/4" chambers) or a "fowler" with 3" chambers. These often can be found with 32" barrels and are usually on the planer side. Boxlocks of course.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I would think hard before lengthening the chambers. That takes the gun out of proof. Proof is meaningful, even in the USA.

As previously stated you CAN shoot appropriate 2-3/4' loads in Brit 2-1/2" guns. The KEY is the pressure that the load develops, not the length of the fired cartridge. Many Brit factory 2-1/2" loads (star crimp closures) are loaded in 2-3/4" hulls. This does not mean that you can fire ANY 2-3/4" loads in a 2-1/2" chambered gun, the pressure profiles are different between Brit "2-1/2 in." and "2-3/4 in." loads. The 2-3/4" cartridges are though of as magnum loads.

Like a lot of fanciers of Brit SxS guns, I learned my lessons the hard way... by buying Brit guns. There is a lot of information on the 'Net and in books and other publications that will help you sort the rat shit from the pepper. I recommend serious study if you are going to spend any real money on these guns.

I do own (or have owned) a number of Brit SxS guns - from 'beater' boxlocks to London and Scottish 'best guns'. The WR guns have a fine reputation - but each gun is it's own case study. Once they leave the factory they may be cared for or abused.

 

[mikecatt13]

I ended up going with a Beretta 486 Parallelo.

Appreciate the wealth of knowledge in this community and look forward to learning more about the vintage guns and possibly revisit that at a later date.

For now, the Beretta I found has nice wood to complement their engravings, screw-in chokes, fits and handles well, and I've heard they're very durable.