Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Buff-Buster, Mar 15, 2012.
One of the reasons European citizens can live like they do is the social systems put in place for them. Those systems come at a very high cost to the working citizen and the government. In Germany the average income tax paid is nearly 35%. In exchange for those taxes you get good roads, medical insurance, college for your kids, and an economy that has had adapted to the costs. Compensation is much higher when employers aren't burdened with social expenses ie medical insurance. Not many Americans pay anything near 35% income taxes to subsidize such a system and our free market system isn't very conducive to making the adjustments required to support a European type social economy.
you've got a point but I hope like hell your wrong!
Macs, I hope I didn't offend you . My comments were not meant to be anti European. The german and british systems (and others) are quite different than most southern european systems. We in Canada have many things wrong with our systems and many things that are working well. I'm sure this can be said for most countries. I believe that a healthy economy brings on a healthy country that can afford social programs such as education and health. I also believe that private health care is not the problem in the US, it is the insurance laws and the class action law suits.
Sometimes I think that I have too many opinions.
Good hunting, Mike
Its amazing to me that we in the US cannot seem to see the direction we are going and that it is not a good thing. I cannot stand Obama but he is just the latest to take us down this path only he is accelerating the whole mess even further. He has spent more money in 3 years than Bush did in 8 and thats a fact. He promised to cut the deficit in half in his first term, instead he tripled it. Hows that workin out for ya?! I guess we cant see whats happening in Greece, Italy, Germany and France to some degree, Ireland, Britain with their money woes and having to cut back on all the freebees with attendant riots and mass protests etc. Unreal! We are going the same way. I am not optimistic about the future at all, especially if our moronic, manchild, left of Lenin loser of a president is re-elected! Yes most of us realize that Europe is different than us. We all think our system is better than the other guys. Truth is however that most people that want to live somewhere else, want to move to the US. I wonder why that is?
Most of the people that wants to move to US have a very poor life where they are and most of them think they can pick money from the trees in US.
I have been traveling many places in the world and have talked with lots of ordinary people and so many have a fantasy image of how easy the life is in US.
Most of them making it to US meet a very harsh reality.
I think there are lots of great things regarding both the people and the country US, but there is lots of garbage as well.
Most citizens of US have no idea about other countries, and specially not about other countries politics and how the life is there for most people.
What I think about you upcoming election is that I think Obama has the largest chance to win.
The main reason for why I think so, is that your Republican candidates are not good at all.
They are mostly fighting to give the Democrats ammo for the next election.
I would think it would be possible to find some much better republican candidates than the ones battling for first position now.
If the Republican candidate should win the election, don't be to harsh and disappointed if he doesn't manage to do miracles in 4 years.
Just like you are now with Obama.
I think this is a major flaw with most democratic countries.
The people are way to impatient and think everything can be fixed and changed very fast.
Norwegianwoods, I dont really disagree with any of that believe it or not. Most of us are not thrilled with our candidates this time around, but you gotta make the best with what you get, in this case Romney. He has the best chance of getting the so-called independent or moderate vote and you need that to win. I go back to what I said earlier, ABO - ANYBODY BUT OBAMA!
And you are right that democracy can be messy at times. Tell me whats a better alternative for a people who fought for, won and demand personal, Constitutional freedom?
I totally believe in democracy, but it might be better if the ones elected to be in power should sit for longer than 4 years before the next election.
Maybe 6 or even 8 years would be better.
I think often changes of power is worse than someone you might not agree with sits for a longer period and indeed manage to do something else than just trying to secure their win for the next election.
Changes in politics usually take some time before they start to work as intended and most people voting doesn't have the patient to wait for that.
Everybody want quick fixes.
I understand your point, thats why we have two terms for the President. FDR wanted to be pres for life which is why Congress said no way and gave us term limits for the office. Frankly the idea of Obama or his kind (progressive liberal) for more than 4 years leaves me both cold and angry beyond what you can imagine. Any country deserves better than him, we sure do. Too many people were fooled by his soaring rhetoric and great speeches. He had never accomplished anything of importance before becoming President and this is what happens when ignorant people vote. They all thought Obama was going to just "make it all better". Hows that workin' out for ya?!
X10 to the 3rd power, a Zombie has more to offer this country at this point, God help the world if he get's re-elected.
If you truely support the Democratic process you will have to re-think that statement real fast because it strikes at the fundamental principles of the democratic political phylosophy.
Really? In what way? "Real fast"? Or what, I'll turn into a pumpkin? Give me a break. I merely said that many voters in this country are ignorant, a true statement by any measure. Sometimes various news show do a sort of "man on the street" interview with passersby. You wouldnt believe the answers they sometimes get to the most basic of questions! They might show a picture to some college kid, or soccer mom of the vice president or the Speaker of the House or the Senate majority leader etc etc. Half the time the so called educated people have no clue who these people are! They are what my father in law used to call "educated idiots"! Because I am a citizen of this once great country and we do have Freedom of speech still at least for now, I can say anything I want to, even when I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong! If I had any say there would be a minimum competency test to vote, after you showed legal ID proving you have the right to vote in the first place! To vote you should at least know something about the candidates and what job they are applying for and how our govt works. We have lots of voter fraud now and every time a state tries to pass a law requiring ID to vote everyone screams bloody murder and cries "RACISM"! Its crap! Our worthless and dangerous US Attorney General just filed suit against another state for passing a voter ID law. He said it was racist to require ID to vote. Guess who hired him? He should join Obama on the unemployment line. Another thing I would change. If you dont own property that is taxed like land, homes or rental property, you dont get to vote on issues that raise OTHER PEOPLES PROPERTY TAX! This country is chock full of losers that just love to go around voting for issues that raise OTHER PEOPLES TAXES, dont cost them a thing cause they aint got nuttin to pay taxes on! Its real easy to vote to make those rich evil bastards pay more. No way, its madness and it needs to stop! Enough rant. Stir, stir...
Barack Obama "We're not trying to push financial reform because we begrudge success that's fairly earned. I mean, I do think at a certain point you've made enough money. But, you know, part of the American way is, you know, you can just keep on making it if you're providing a good product or providing good service. We don't want people to stop, ah, fulfilling the core responsibilities of the financial system to help grow our economy." ç†”n Wall Street reform, Quincy, Ill., April 29, 2010
He said it, the ignorant will listen. However, this quote is ignorant in of itself, he starts backpedaling after his first 2 sentences.
So only some people should get the vote, some of the time, on only some issues ?
This is a transcript from Paul Harveys radio show in 1965!
If I were the devil, I wouldnt be happy until I had seized the ripest apple on the tree-thee. So Id set about however necessary to take over the United States. Id subvert the churches firstã‚I would begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: " do as you please." To the young, I would whisper, " the Bible is a myth". I would convince them that man created God instead of the other way around. I would confide that what is bad is good, and what is good is square? And the old, I would teach to pray. I would teach them to pray after me, Our Father, which art in Washington?
And then I'd get organized. I'd educate authors on how to lurid literature exciting, so that anything else would appear dull and uninteresting. I'd threaten TV with dirtier movies and vice versa. Id pedal narcotics to whom I could. I'd sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. Ièž¢ tranquilize the rest with pills.
If I were the devil I'd soon have families that war with themselves, churches that war that themselves, and nations that war with themselves; until each in its turn was consumed. And with promises of higher ratings I'd have mesmerizing media fanning the flame. If I were the devil I would encourage schools to refine young intellects, and neglect to discipline emotions, just let those run wild, until before you knew it, you'd have to have drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors at every schoolhouse door.
Within a decade I'd have prisons overflowing, I'd have judges promoting pornography, soon I could evict God from the courthouse, and then the schoolhouse, and then from the houses of Congress. And in His own churches I would substitute psychology for religion, and deify science. I would lure priests and pastors into misusing boys and girls, and church money. If I were the devil I'd make the symbols of Easter an egg and the symbol of Christmas a bottle.
If I were the devil I'd take from those, and who have, and give to those wanted until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. What do you bet I could get whole states to promote gambling as the way to get rich? I would question against extremes and hard work, and Patriotism, and moral conduct. I would convince the young that marriage is old-fashioned, that swinging more fun, that what you see on the TV is the way to be. And thus I could undress you in public, and I could lure you into bed with diseases for which there is no cure. In other words, if I were the devil I'd keep on doing what heck he's doing.
Paul Harvey, good day.
1965 he said this!!!!!
I would say the left "progressive" movement is doing a great job so far! I don't feel its to late......yet!
Please for the hunting industry sake around the whole world get a new president in office!
Code4, not speaking for sest here, but I don't think that is what he was saying at all, his statment was somewhat tame in my mind.
Since you brought it up though. In the US you cannot vote if you are a felon (you loose that right) it was decided in the courts years ago. "I" feel that there are certain people in this country besides felon's who should also not have that right. #1 if you have been convicted of a drug charge (felony or not) you loose the right to vote. #2 if you are not a US citizen, you don't get to vote. #3 if you receive a welfare check (you loose your right to vote, until you find employment). These are only a few, but, whether you are a US citizen or not you should be able to see how allowing these people to vote, places candidates in charge who are going to cater to these folks and make it harder on the working class. It goes back to socialism again, you have the people busting their butts forced to support those who don't contribute to the society.
What happens when the people who are busting their a$$es every day get tired of supporting these people who don't want to take care of themselves??? Then they opt for the easy way out and you have more and more folks who are going to let the government take care of them. Then once the country can no longer take care of these people, the US becomes a third world country.
1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.
2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.
3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.
4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!
5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.
This is what the current "President" of the US is trying to do, if you don't understand, then sorry, we see it happening...
sest, I don't think we are going to turn into a pumpkin, would have already happened.
With my respect 35bore. I think you are totally mistaken about how socialism can work.
Norway is a country I suspect you will call socialistic and it doesn't work like that at all here.
People don't choose to sit on their a** waiting for their benefits.
Our unemployment rate is 3.2%.
Most people accept to pay high taxes for the benefit of all the people in our country.
Do I think or way is the best? No, I think also here things can be approved and our way might not work for everybody. But it works well for us.
Do I think our way will work in US? I have no idea. It all depends on the general attitude of the majority of the US citizens.
But I really think USA could benefit from looking at other countries and learn from them and not always think that the American way is the only way and that the American way always is the best way to do things.
And I really think that taking away peoples right to vote because their are unemployed goes against everything that has to do with a real democracy.
Sorry I don't disagree but don't agree at the same time. Be it socialism, communism, democracy, etc. The old guys back when we became free from British rule, fought and died to create the USA. Many wars have been fought trying to uphold what out forefathers fought and died for. I feel it is a slap in the face of all veterans to just go back to a system that they left when hundreds of thousands have died for to protect "the american way". The ideology is insane to me.
Your system works for you, that's fine and great, but if you tryed to incorperate it here, right now, I feel it would fail in a big way. The US has too many freeloaders and the working class would fall apart, I would give it 8 yrs and the streets of any major city in the US would look like Livingston Zambia. Socialism with the already "lazy" mindset of let someone else take care of me, no thanks.
Not being nasty here this is just information. On the welfare system (which never expires) you can get more money, the more kids you have. So what do they do, have more kids. You don't have to look for a job, so they sell drugs, or just do side jobs for cash. The system is flawed in a big way, that is why I don't think they should vote, unless you have a job. The perfect society, is unless you are injured and cannot work, if you don't work and contribute to society, you don't get money.
Have a very good friend, who is a doctor, left India to come here. He told me he makes 5x what he would make in India. Guess, that is my point, if you work hard to get what you want, why should you have to pay for someone who doesn't want to do anything to contribute to any society hence why should that same lowlife be able to decide how my money is to be spent....
BTW at the age of 12 I was forced into the US welfare system, I got to see the abuses, I saw a lot of crap I don't care to remember. I got out of that system and I think 95% of the people I am bitching about could to, it is just easier for them to continue doing what they are doing. So socialism I feel here in the US would just amplify this mindset.
Your country is fortunate enough to say that the socialist ideology has worked, again I commend you and the others that have gained from this system, but I am not willing to sacrifice any of my rights or beliefs to support it here in the US.
Watch were you step. (lol) I get what you are talking about though.
Separate names with a comma.