Thoughts on Borrowing Guns on Safari

[Cleathorn]

@Cleathorn
A big eland with a 25-06 WOW.
I want to know more.
Bob.

Hey Bob – it’s a typical African hunting story. On that trip, I was hosting a group of 6 new-to-Africa hunters. I try and take a group of employees every year as an employee recognition event. So when I go, I don’t book specific species nor make a target list. I just try and go out with different people each day, and if we see something interesting, I’ll hunt.

For the most part, I only hunt animals that I have not previously hunted (the exception is DG, I’ll hunt DG if/when ever I can).

On this hunt, the rifles were delayed for 6 days. The gun saga was one of several issues this year that gave rise to the OP. Anyway, rather than sitting around gloating about the guns being in New York while we were in Africa, we borrowed some guns and went hunting.

Since I take a large group every year, the PHs I use go out of their way to find new and interesting properties. In this case, there was a farm about an hour from where we had been primarily hunting. The owner/PH of that farm wanted to show it to me as a future destination. The farm hadn’t been hunted since 2019 because of Covid, and it wasn’t being booked and hunted this year because it was in the process of being sold. Frankly it was sold because of Covid. The owner/PH that would be managing it was with me. It was a beautiful property, lots of game, and in need of some game management.

My PH had a 25-06 in the truck for hunting the open plains game like Blesbok, Springbuck, Impala, etc. I had one of my kids with me, so we set up on a small but elevated ridge over an open pan to take some Blesbok and Springbuck. The ridge was about 150 yards from the front edge of the pan but gave us great vantage point.

As we were watching some Springbuck, we could see some Eland moving along the brushy flat about 50 yards inside the brush. These Eland hadn’t been seen by anyone in a long time. As we watched them, it became obviously that 1 of these Eland wasn’t like the others. The body was about right for a mature bull – large, stocky and in that brownish to blue hue. But the horns seemed larger than expected. We initially thought that maybe the bull was younger than we were estimating, and the body was small relative to the horns. So, we put a stalk on the small group to get a closer look.

We got to a point inside 100 yards of where the Eland would pass. As the bull we were looking at stepped into an opening, it was obvious that it was in fact a large, mature bull. The horns were just unusually large.

So, I had a Cape Eland larger than I was ever likely to see again standing inside of 100 yards, and I had a borrowed 25-06 in my hands. It wasn’t even a discussion. I settled the cross hairs on the point of the shoulder, switched of the safety, settled into the trigger, and squeezed. The bullet hit exactly where I was holding, and the big bull took 2 steps forward, stopped for about 10 seconds and collapsed.

I am a big supporter of “use enough gun.” I usually err to the upside. However, a 25-06 with a 120gr bullet at that range is traveling faster and carrying more than, or about the same, energy as a 7mm mag with a 150 gr bullet at 200 yards or a 300 win mag with a 180 grain bullet at 300 yards. Few if anyone would question using a 7mm at 200 or a 300 win mag at 300 on a Cape Eland. I am not real interested in the never ending “which gun is best” debate. That discussion is great fodder for campfires and internet forums, it is just not for me anymore. If the hunter/shooter does enough practice to keep his/her wits about them, stays focused, and places the shot properly, almost any gun works on almost all game. Thick skinned DG obviously requires something different, but keep in mind that Hemmingway shot his rhino with his preferred “sweet shooting” 30-06.

While I am not interested in the “which gun is best” discussion, I am very interested in getting people into the field and enjoying the experience. I travel for work and hunting a lot. Traveling sucks right now, it just does. I’ve made 9 trans-oceanic trips in 2022 already this year including 4 to Europe, 3 to Africa and 2 to Australia. I have been delayed for 24 hours or more, or had luggage delayed or lost altogether, on 7 of 9 trips.

On the 1 trip this year that I did take guns, the guns were delayed in New York for 6 days after a cancelled flight left me in New York for an extra 24 hours.

The guns caught up to me in RSA and I then went to Zimbabwe from RSA with all 4 guns. While there, United and RSA had a brief dispute, and United could not fly any weapons too, or from, Africa.

The issue between United and RSA was resolved in about 2 days. However, during that time, the various agents and brokers that arranged travel with firearms did a very good job of getting the message out to their clients in Africa. I was among them. So, like most people, I had to devise a plan.

Since my and 2 companions were traveling on United Polaris class tickets, changing airlines was a very costly proposition. So, we decided that we were going to take the expensive scopes off the rifles, put the scopes in our luggage, and turn the guns into the Zimbabwe police. It was cheaper to buy new guns than change planes. I would still describe the decision to abandon 4 guns in Africa so that we would return home as a hassle. Fortunately, the issue was resolved. However, until travel issues are resolved, my guns are likely to stay home, and I won’t take anything that doesn’t fit in the carryon. I’ll still go, but I’ll travel light, borrow guns, and enjoy the new experiences of getting know the various guns that others use in Africa and around the world.

 

[mark-hunter]

I try and take a group of employees every year as an employee recognition event.

There is no better way for team building!
What is your line of work? (i would love to send my CV!)

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hey Bob – it’s a typical African hunting story. On that trip, I was hosting a group of 6 new-to-Africa hunters. I try and take a group of employees every year as an employee recognition event. So when I go, I don’t book specific species nor make a target list. I just try and go out with different people each day, and if we see something interesting, I’ll hunt.

For the most part, I only hunt animals that I have not previously hunted (the exception is DG, I’ll hunt DG if/when ever I can).

On this hunt, the rifles were delayed for 6 days. The gun saga was one of several issues this year that gave rise to the OP. Anyway, rather than sitting around gloating about the guns being in New York while we were in Africa, we borrowed some guns and went hunting.

Since I take a large group every year, the PHs I use go out of their way to find new and interesting properties. In this case, there was a farm about an hour from where we had been primarily hunting. The owner/PH of that farm wanted to show it to me as a future destination. The farm hadn’t been hunted since 2019 because of Covid, and it wasn’t being booked and hunted this year because it was in the process of being sold. Frankly it was sold because of Covid. The owner/PH that would be managing it was with me. It was a beautiful property, lots of game, and in need of some game management.

My PH had a 25-06 in the truck for hunting the open plains game like Blesbok, Springbuck, Impala, etc. I had one of my kids with me, so we set up on a small but elevated ridge over an open pan to take some Blesbok and Springbuck. The ridge was about 150 yards from the front edge of the pan but gave us great vantage point.

As we were watching some Springbuck, we could see some Eland moving along the brushy flat about 50 yards inside the brush. These Eland hadn’t been seen by anyone in a long time. As we watched them, it became obviously that 1 of these Eland wasn’t like the others. The body was about right for a mature bull – large, stocky and in that brownish to blue hue. But the horns seemed larger than expected. We initially thought that maybe the bull was younger than we were estimating, and the body was small relative to the horns. So, we put a stalk on the small group to get a closer look.

We got to a point inside 100 yards of where the Eland would pass. As the bull we were looking at stepped into an opening, it was obvious that it was in fact a large, mature bull. The horns were just unusually large.

So, I had a Cape Eland larger than I was ever likely to see again standing inside of 100 yards, and I had a borrowed 25-06 in my hands. It wasn’t even a discussion. I settled the cross hairs on the point of the shoulder, switched of the safety, settled into the trigger, and squeezed. The bullet hit exactly where I was holding, and the big bull took 2 steps forward, stopped for about 10 seconds and collapsed.

I am a big supporter of “use enough gun.” I usually err to the upside. However, a 25-06 with a 120gr bullet at that range is traveling faster and carrying more than, or about the same, energy as a 7mm mag with a 150 gr bullet at 200 yards or a 300 win mag with a 180 grain bullet at 300 yards. Few if anyone would question using a 7mm at 200 or a 300 win mag at 300 on a Cape Eland. I am not real interested in the never ending “which gun is best” debate. That discussion is great fodder for campfires and internet forums, it is just not for me anymore. If the hunter/shooter does enough practice to keep his/her wits about them, stays focused, and places the shot properly, almost any gun works on almost all game. Thick skinned DG obviously requires something different, but keep in mind that Hemmingway shot his rhino with his preferred “sweet shooting” 30-06.

While I am not interested in the “which gun is best” discussion, I am very interested in getting people into the field and enjoying the experience. I travel for work and hunting a lot. Traveling sucks right now, it just does. I’ve made 9 trans-oceanic trips in 2022 already this year including 4 to Europe, 3 to Africa and 2 to Australia. I have been delayed for 24 hours or more, or had luggage delayed or lost altogether, on 7 of 9 trips.

On the 1 trip this year that I did take guns, the guns were delayed in New York for 6 days after a cancelled flight left me in New York for an extra 24 hours.

The guns caught up to me in RSA and I then went to Zimbabwe from RSA with all 4 guns. While there, United and RSA had a brief dispute, and United could not fly any weapons too, or from, Africa.

The issue between United and RSA was resolved in about 2 days. However, during that time, the various agents and brokers that arranged travel with firearms did a very good job of getting the message out to their clients in Africa. I was among them. So, like most people, I had to devise a plan.

Since my and 2 companions were traveling on United Polaris class tickets, changing airlines was a very costly proposition. So, we decided that we were going to take the expensive scopes off the rifles, put the scopes in our luggage, and turn the guns into the Zimbabwe police. It was cheaper to buy new guns than change planes. I would still describe the decision to abandon 4 guns in Africa so that we would return home as a hassle. Fortunately, the issue was resolved. However, until travel issues are resolved, my guns are likely to stay home, and I won’t take anything that doesn’t fit in the carryon. I’ll still go, but I’ll travel light, borrow guns, and enjoy the new experiences of getting know the various guns that others use in Africa and around the world.

@Cleathorn.
I don't mean to be rude but the 25-06 with a 120gn bullet at 3,000 fps carries no where near the energy of either the 7mm mag with a 150gn at 3,000 fps or a 300 win mag with 180gn projectiles at 2,900fps.
Even my 25 with a 120gn at 3,300fps won't match the energy of the others. I have been using the 25 cal for over 40 years so know a thing or three about them.
The fast 25s are amazing rounds that shoot fast and flat and are great for longer range hunting. Whit the right projectiles they kill out of all proportion. @ One Day had an amazing hunt using his 257 weatherby on all sorts of plains game using a 100gn TTSX at 3,400 fps.
Despite my raving on about the capability of the 25s I will agree with you on put put the right bullet in the right spot and the result is one dead animal. Dang even cape buffalo have been killed with the humble 22 hornet with a bullet up the ear canal.
Bob

 

[raamw]

when I hunted Greenland several years back I opted to rent a rifle from the guides, If I had brought one of mine I would incurr additional baggage charges through 2 countries on the way in and way out plus one of the countries required registration and documentation so to me it was a lot easier to rent

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

Hey Bob – it’s a typical African hunting story. On that trip, I was hosting a group of 6 new-to-Africa hunters. I try and take a group of employees every year as an employee recognition event. So when I go, I don’t book specific species nor make a target list. I just try and go out with different people each day, and if we see something interesting, I’ll hunt.

For the most part, I only hunt animals that I have not previously hunted (the exception is DG, I’ll hunt DG if/when ever I can).

On this hunt, the rifles were delayed for 6 days. The gun saga was one of several issues this year that gave rise to the OP. Anyway, rather than sitting around gloating about the guns being in New York while we were in Africa, we borrowed some guns and went hunting.

Since I take a large group every year, the PHs I use go out of their way to find new and interesting properties. In this case, there was a farm about an hour from where we had been primarily hunting. The owner/PH of that farm wanted to show it to me as a future destination. The farm hadn’t been hunted since 2019 because of Covid, and it wasn’t being booked and hunted this year because it was in the process of being sold. Frankly it was sold because of Covid. The owner/PH that would be managing it was with me. It was a beautiful property, lots of game, and in need of some game management.

My PH had a 25-06 in the truck for hunting the open plains game like Blesbok, Springbuck, Impala, etc. I had one of my kids with me, so we set up on a small but elevated ridge over an open pan to take some Blesbok and Springbuck. The ridge was about 150 yards from the front edge of the pan but gave us great vantage point.

As we were watching some Springbuck, we could see some Eland moving along the brushy flat about 50 yards inside the brush. These Eland hadn’t been seen by anyone in a long time. As we watched them, it became obviously that 1 of these Eland wasn’t like the others. The body was about right for a mature bull – large, stocky and in that brownish to blue hue. But the horns seemed larger than expected. We initially thought that maybe the bull was younger than we were estimating, and the body was small relative to the horns. So, we put a stalk on the small group to get a closer look.

We got to a point inside 100 yards of where the Eland would pass. As the bull we were looking at stepped into an opening, it was obvious that it was in fact a large, mature bull. The horns were just unusually large.

So, I had a Cape Eland larger than I was ever likely to see again standing inside of 100 yards, and I had a borrowed 25-06 in my hands. It wasn’t even a discussion. I settled the cross hairs on the point of the shoulder, switched of the safety, settled into the trigger, and squeezed. The bullet hit exactly where I was holding, and the big bull took 2 steps forward, stopped for about 10 seconds and collapsed.

I am a big supporter of “use enough gun.” I usually err to the upside. However, a 25-06 with a 120gr bullet at that range is traveling faster and carrying more than, or about the same, energy as a 7mm mag with a 150 gr bullet at 200 yards or a 300 win mag with a 180 grain bullet at 300 yards. Few if anyone would question using a 7mm at 200 or a 300 win mag at 300 on a Cape Eland. I am not real interested in the never ending “which gun is best” debate. That discussion is great fodder for campfires and internet forums, it is just not for me anymore. If the hunter/shooter does enough practice to keep his/her wits about them, stays focused, and places the shot properly, almost any gun works on almost all game. Thick skinned DG obviously requires something different, but keep in mind that Hemmingway shot his rhino with his preferred “sweet shooting” 30-06.

While I am not interested in the “which gun is best” discussion, I am very interested in getting people into the field and enjoying the experience. I travel for work and hunting a lot. Traveling sucks right now, it just does. I’ve made 9 trans-oceanic trips in 2022 already this year including 4 to Europe, 3 to Africa and 2 to Australia. I have been delayed for 24 hours or more, or had luggage delayed or lost altogether, on 7 of 9 trips.

On the 1 trip this year that I did take guns, the guns were delayed in New York for 6 days after a cancelled flight left me in New York for an extra 24 hours.

The guns caught up to me in RSA and I then went to Zimbabwe from RSA with all 4 guns. While there, United and RSA had a brief dispute, and United could not fly any weapons too, or from, Africa.

The issue between United and RSA was resolved in about 2 days. However, during that time, the various agents and brokers that arranged travel with firearms did a very good job of getting the message out to their clients in Africa. I was among them. So, like most people, I had to devise a plan.

Since my and 2 companions were traveling on United Polaris class tickets, changing airlines was a very costly proposition. So, we decided that we were going to take the expensive scopes off the rifles, put the scopes in our luggage, and turn the guns into the Zimbabwe police. It was cheaper to buy new guns than change planes. I would still describe the decision to abandon 4 guns in Africa so that we would return home as a hassle. Fortunately, the issue was resolved. However, until travel issues are resolved, my guns are likely to stay home, and I won’t take anything that doesn’t fit in the carryon. I’ll still go, but I’ll travel light, borrow guns, and enjoy the new experiences of getting know the various guns that others use in Africa and around the world.

Did you get the guns back?

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I like using my own rifles as much as the next guy. However, renting a rifle is like renting a car. Not that big of deal either way. I lived for 6 years in Lagos, Nigeria and couldn't have any of my firearms with me. So all of the hunts I did during that time were using the PH's rent guns. Most were very similar to rifles I had, so not a big deal. One time, I was disappointed in the scope quality and another time a rifle was not sighted in very well. The best rental rifles were at @GAME 4 AFRICA SAFARIS where they had well maintained Sako rifles with Swaro or S&B scopes. They had rifles with and without suppressors and all of them were sighted in properly.

Interestingly enough, my long time elk outfitter in Montana has recently purchased a couple of "Best of the West" 300 PRC rifles (or shooting systems as they prefer to call them). The outfitter is going to require hunters to use these rifles. I have a 2024 rifle hunt booked, so I guess I will get to shoot one of these wonder rilfes.

 

[Longwalker]

The majority of opinions on this subject have been expressed by and for residents of the USA. Despite the assurances of most posters on here, the experience of bringing your own is quite different for a hunter who is not from the USA.

I'm Canadian. I have hunted Africa only three times. Once I brought my own rifles, twice I rented. My experience with rental rifles was quite satisfactory. Simple, hassle free, reasonably adequate equipment, and cheaper than bringing my own by a large margin.

Bringing my own firearms for a hunt in Namibia was worth while, but I faced the following challenges: Despite the best connection and cheapest flights through USA airports, I had to make flight connections through Europe because of the additional layers of permits and a generally unwelcoming USA bureaucracy towards non-USA citizens. Germany was easier. Despite all the advice from USA citizens to "just use Travel With Guns" or some other USA gun friendly booking service, those travel agents don't have a clue how to book flights for Canadians flying with guns. Tried that, was disappointed. Had to do a lot of research and then do the permits and paperwork myself.

Namibia is arguably a country with one of the best government administrations of major African hunting destinations. I was still asked for a bribe to have my paperwork approved when I arrived. I was brave enough to refuse, and that went OK, but who knows how next time would go?

The cost to choose only flights from gun friendly airlines, book firearms on flights, get permits, pay for extra baggage and inspections, allow extra time for connections that may mean another night at an airport hotel, etc, etc, makes the money for renting a firearm and ammunition cheap by comparison.

On my first rental experience in South Africa, I didn't like hunting with a rifle that had a big suppressor stuck on the muzzle. A minor complaint. Everything else was good.

On my second rental experience in Zimbabwe I had a good rifle with a decent scope. While hunting bush pigs in the dark it would have been better if the illuminated reticle actually worked, but I could see the crosshairs good enough. Ammunition was a greater concern. The outfitter supplied a random mix of ammo for the .375 and I had to be careful to choose the proper bullet for buffalo.

I still may bring my own rifles next time because I am a firearm enthusiast and I strongly prefer to use my own. But it's not cheaper and it's not simpler.

Depends on what stresses you choose to endure.

 

[Longwalker]

My advice on traveling with guns is, for the most part, don’t. Practice a lot. Shoot often. Shoot everything. Get comfortable with as many firearms platforms as you can. Shoot every cartridge that you can. Use every bullet that you can find. And when the time comes, use whatever gun is in your hands, with whatever bullet is in that gun. Take a few breaths, don’t rush, and make the shot. When the bullet goes where it is supposed to, virtually any gun will work. And if you cannot consistently put the bullet right where you want, use a 375H&H, those things make big holes.

Well Said!

 

[mdwest]

I prefer to take/use my own firearms.. but it gives me no real heartburn when I cant..

in 2019 I had enough miles on American to be able to get 2 tickets to SA from DFW at no cost... That meant transitioning from American to BA at Heathrow though.. which in turn meant I could not take my own rifles (BA and American don play nice and don't do the firearms transfer thing inside the UK for some reason.. but either airline when flying them alone will transport firearms)... The cost savings on the flights was worth renting a rifle for the week rather than buying 2x tickets on another airline just so we could take our own..

This month on our hunt in Ireland, we were advised by the outfitter that bringing our own rifles wasn't a great idea.. he had been having a good bit of trouble and had dealt with significant delays at the airport over the prior couple of months when hunters were bringing in their own guns.. so we opted to avoid the potential delays and hassle and just used camp rifles for that hunt as well...

On both occasions we were provided quality, well maintained rifles, with quality ammunition, quality optics, etc.. and provided the opportunity to familiarize ourselves with the rifles prior to hunting.. it really wasn't a big deal at all..

All that said.. like stated above, I prefer to take my own whenever I can.. there is comfort in the familiarity I have with both the rifle and the ammunition.. and Im one of those guys that gets a lot of pleasure out of hunting with a rifle that I built (I have built several of the rifles that I hunt with), with ammo that I have hand loaded, using tools that I have crafted myself (make my own leather goods, my own knives, etc)... and seeing it all come together and perform in the field.. So whenever its practical or possible.. I take them..

 

[Ragman]

I am more of a hunter than I am a gun connoisseur. Firearms are nice but for the most part, they are tools.

For me, it is much more preferable to hunt with a borrowed rifle than to miss out on the opportunity to hunt.

Me too. Compared to my hunting friends and acquaintances here at home, I am a bit of a gun nut as well as a hunting nut. But in regards to a large number of members on AH I am definitely a hunter who uses firearms for their intended purpose. I thoroughly enjoy all of the rifles that I own (less than a dozen) but only have one that I am really attached to. So it doesn't bother me at all to use outfitters rifles. In fact I enjoy the opportunity to try another brand and/or calibre.
Also I have only been on three guided hunts, so not really an issue for me.

Hunt #1 was to Namibia. I went with a group of fellow hunters from Saskatchewan and the hunt organizer looked after our rifle documentation. I took my Smith & Wesson Model 1500 in 7mm Rem Mag. However none of our rifles arrived in Windhoek when we did so the first day of the hunt we all had to use our respective PHs' guns. The one I used was a Weatherby Vanguard in .30-06 which is nearly identical to my S&W. Felt like my own and that day I killed a Steenbok and Gemsbok with it. That afternoon our rifles arrived and I finished out the safari with my 7mm taking a baboon, warthog, red hartebeest and impala with it. At the end of the trip some of our rifles (including mine) never made it onto the plane. It took another 3 or 4 days for them to finally arrive in Regina.

Hunt #2 was with @gizmo in Texas. I used his Ruger American .270 to take a Corsican ram and several hogs. I liked it enough that I bought one in .223 when I got home.

Hunt #3 was in the Eastern Cape of RSA. Once again I chose to not travel with firearms and used the outfitter's rifle. It was in fact the same Ruger 77 in .300 Win Mag that @Ryan used. I'd never used a .300 WM before or any rifle equipped with a supressor so was looking forward to it. Shot a seven animals with it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Also used a borrowed CZ 527 in .223 on a night hunt for porcupine on that trip. Nice little rifle, although when Marius told me to take the safety off very quietly it still clicked off pretty loudly!

If I'm fortunate enough to have a Hunt #4 in my future I'm pretty sure that I'll be using the outfitter's rifle again. I'll just have to enjoy my own here at home!