The 47-70 has not, and never will, be a 458 win mag

[19_A_CPT]

Blasphemy! I'm going to go shoot a 70lb Elephant with my .45-70 shooting 370 grain CEB Raptors..... as soon as my fellow readers send money to my GoFundMe account... think of it as a Scientific Experiment

 

[Viral_SIGness]

Blasphemy! I'm going to go shoot a 70lb Elephant with my .45-70 shooting 370 grain CEB Raptors..... as soon as my fellow readers send money to my GoFundMe account... think of it as a Scientific Experiment

Lol

 

[Huvius]

Well, no shit…
Quite a dissertation on the obvious.

 

[CZDiesel]

Yeah well the 405 is a different story now isn’t it!

 

[Nhoro]

Friend of mine was conducting a photographic walk inside the Mana Pools National park, no hunting area. A buffalo charged him at close range, it was probably sleeping in the shade behind a tree. He fired and turned the animal. Long story short, when the buffalo was tracked down, it charged again and after it was dispatched, it had been wounded previously. The animal that you wound today may kill someone tommorrow.

If you are having a mid life crisis or have a small weiner, buy a sports car, get a 20 year old girlfriend and wear a toupe, don't shoot elephant or buffalo with a 45-70.

 

[leslie hetrick]

More like this....

View attachment 677861

if you have a dead horse, you can only do three things with it. EAT IT, BURY IT OR BEAT IT.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

What about a 45-90?

I took a Bakail double rifle 45-70 opened up to 45-90 over for my safari operator. Technically I owned it but only briefly. Never shot the thing. Also had a couple boxes of brass and 45-90 dies in my checked bag for him. On the plane I did some research and found that yes, many others had opened those guns up. But everyone cautioned that 45-90 should not be loaded above 45-70 max pressure in those guns. So what is the advantage? Very little apparently. A bit more range which presumably translates to more velocity per unit of pressure which presumably also means slightly more penetration at close range? Given the difficulty finding 45-90 brass I don't think the slight advantage outweighed the disadvantages. I presume one could still shoot 45-70 in it? But with that kind of jump to lands probably not very effectively.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I have friend who shot his Cape buffalo in Zimbabwe with a 45-70 Ruger #1. Quite a scary story. When the buff came for them after first shot, his PH took off for the hills. Wes was able to duck and dodge in cover long enough for buff to finally tip over. He was unable to get another shot off till it was on the ground. As I recall he was reluctant to give away his location while the bull was hunting for him. With only one shot in the gun and no backup rifle, I think he made a wise choice.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Friend of mine was conducting a photographic walk inside the Mana Pools National park, no hunting area. A buffalo charged him at close range, it was probably sleeping in the shade behind a tree. He fired and turned the animal. Long story short, when the buffalo was tracked down, it charged again and after it was dispatched, it had been wounded previously. The animal that you wound today may kill someone tommorrow.

If you are having a mid life crisis or have a small weiner, buy a sports car, get a 20 year old girlfriend and wear a toupe, don't shoot elephant or buffalo with a 45-70.

And what had it been wounded with? As others have pointed out, wounded animals can happen with big "proper" calibers and more probably have. Both of mine died in under 10 seconds. Get close enough, shot placement, and a good bullet.

My weiner is fine, I like trucks not cars, and my gf is 42 - which feels like 20 since I'm 58. And I have always strongly preferred lever actions.

Glad your friend was able to turn the one he came across.

 

[Beck]

LOL, this should be fun! Seriously, I don’t have a lot of time for discussions of ‘this is better than that’. The three seventy five/nine pt three discussion was ridiculous. Two different but great cartridges. I suppose if you’ve nothing better to do…

This is not a debate that I care to weigh in on, but if you don't have the time why are you commenting at all?

 

[dogcat1]

I have been on 15 hunts in Africa, most for dangerous game. I am still a novice as compared to most and especially to the PH's and local hunters.
I ask them about the 45-70, 45-90 and whatever - they all laugh and say, "If you want an early funeral, use that". I get even a more emphatic response on bow hunters wanting to take on buffalo or lion or ele. They say, "Yep, it will kill a lion or buff or ele, but not before they kill you".

This topic comes up regularly by someone wanting to prove a point about an out dated and under powered cartridge. Let me put it this way - if you need an operation, would you have a doctor cover you face with an ether soaked cloth then cut you open with old scissors or knife like in WWI or other eras? Why in the world would anyone think hunting dangerous game with less than adequate tools is a good idea?

You become a Darwin Award candidate when you do this......

 

[dogcat1]

Also, the .375 H&H and up (in terms of power) is what you need to do the job on buff, ele and lion. Anything less and you are headed for a mess.

 

[WAB]

This is not a debate that I care to weigh in on, but if you don't have the time why are you commenting at all?

Perhaps just to see if I could get someone to waste their time responding!

 

[1:66 twiste@d]

Well I use a 45/70 here in Alaska. Mostly for bears. I do love the cartridge.
But I believe the big magnums are used in Africa for a reason. And for DG doubles are used for a reason.

 

[Flbt]

I have been on 15 hunts in Africa, most for dangerous game. I am still a novice as compared to most and especially to the PH's and local hunters.
I ask them about the 45-70, 45-90 and whatever - they all laugh and say, "If you want an early funeral, use that". I get even a more emphatic response on bow hunters wanting to take on buffalo or lion or ele. They say, "Yep, it will kill a lion or buff or ele, but not before they kill you".

This topic comes up regularly by someone wanting to prove a point about an out dated and under powered cartridge. Let me put it this way - if you need an operation, would you have a doctor cover you face with an ether soaked cloth then cut you open with old scissors or knife like in WWI or other eras? Why in the world would anyone think hunting dangerous game with less than adequate tools is a good idea?

You become a Darwin Award candidate when you do this......

And yet there a video of how many shots by a 600 NE on another post before the buff knew he was shot?

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I have been on 15 hunts in Africa, most for dangerous game. I am still a novice as compared to most and especially to the PH's and local hunters.
I ask them about the 45-70, 45-90 and whatever - they all laugh and say, "If you want an early funeral, use that". I get even a more emphatic response on bow hunters wanting to take on buffalo or lion or ele. They say, "Yep, it will kill a lion or buff or ele, but not before they kill you".

This topic comes up regularly by someone wanting to prove a point about an out dated and under powered cartridge. Let me put it this way - if you need an operation, would you have a doctor cover you face with an ether soaked cloth then cut you open with old scissors or knife like in WWI or other eras? Why in the world would anyone think hunting dangerous game with less than adequate tools is a good idea?

You become a Darwin Award candidate when you do this......

My 2 PHs for buffalo had a different response. My 2 buffalo died very fast, each from a single shot. My 45-70 was more than adequate. If you feel like it's an inadequate caliber it's probably just as well you don't use one because it probably would be for you.

 

[leslie hetrick]

i believe the 45-70 loaded with the right bullets and a strong action would be as good as what the old timers used in africa and better than some in fps and fpe.

 

[50Gunner]

LOL, of course not, it is however a fine round with today's bullets and powders, however, I prefer my 45-70 in a '74 Shiloh Sharps loaded with paper patch bullets I cast and patch myself, with black powder one to 700 yard steel makes for some fine and fun shooting.

Speaking of today's bullets and powders, I have been loading the 404gr Hammer bullets coupled with the great 400gr CEB #13 solids at 2600 fps and shooting both in the same ragged hole at 100 yards, doing this with only 83-84grs of powder, that is a massive level of power and efficiency from the mighty 458 Winchester Magnum.

I remember back in the day, [early-mid 90's] a friend was chronoing some factory 400gr 416 Weatherby ammo from a big Mark V at a tic under 2600 fps, I bet he was burning a full one third more powder than me.

We live, hunt, shoot, load, in the very best of times!

 

[Papa72]

Really nothing to debate here. Those that shoot DG with a .45-70 successfully have a story to tell that we will read about. Those that shoot DG unsuccessfully have a story told about them that we will also read about. What’s not to like?

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Friend of mine was conducting a photographic walk inside the Mana Pools National park, no hunting area. A buffalo charged him at close range, it was probably sleeping in the shade behind a tree. He fired and turned the animal. Long story short, when the buffalo was tracked down, it charged again and after it was dispatched, it had been wounded previously. The animal that you wound today may kill someone tommorrow.

If you are having a mid life crisis or have a small weiner, buy a sports car, get a 20 year old girlfriend and wear a toupe, don't shoot elephant or buffalo with a 45-70.

It would be interesting to know if it was wounded by a 375 H&H..