Siamese Mauser or P14 action for 450/400

[dlmac]

Started a new thread not wanting to hijack the Ruger #1 discussion. If you are loading a hot 450/400 load for a #1, then how much hotter for a Siamese Mauser or P14 action. Again, it is one of those things...I have a couple of actions and need/want to do something with them. I have always wondered about the 450/400 or a 416/348 both should be ballistically similar. Maybe should be on the gunsmithing forum.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Interesting. I've always been told the 1917/P14 action could handle just about any cartridge that could be stuffed into it. I have a P14 junker I'm thinking about doing something with.

 

[dlmac]

Interesting. I've always been told the 1917/P14 action could handle just about any cartridge that could be stuffed into it. I have a P14 junker I'm thinking about doing something with.

agreed on both actions especially the P14. I guess the question is at what pressure would we have case weakness issue. I have be told that rimmed cases by nature of the design are weaker than rimless cases. 45K, 50k or higher?

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

The Falling Block Action utilized in the Ruger No.1 with an Underlever is the same engineering concept field artillery employs. Hard to get any stronger than that with a bolt gun.

 

[skydiver386]

agreed on both actions especially the P14. I guess the question is at what pressure would we have case weakness issue. I have be told that rimmed cases by nature of the design are weaker than rimless cases. 45K, 50k or higher?

This is correct. Both actions are equally brute strong, but it's the brass that will always be the weakest link.

The strength of the brass will vary with the thickness at the web.

 

[yumastepside]

Siamese actions are pretty much limited to 75mm / 3" overall length rimmed cartridges. If your interest is the 416/348 ( or 416 WSM ) check out Blueflyer's posts...

Roger

 

[Sarg]

agreed on both actions especially the P14. I guess the question is at what pressure would we have case weakness issue. I have be told that rimmed cases by nature of the design are weaker than rimless cases. 45K, 50k or higher?

That would be the complete opposite actually, as the extractor groove weakens a case slightly or at least a case without a groove would have more strength.

It is a coincidence that most lower pressure cartridges are rimmed & are used in a lot of older designed actions or made of lesser steel technology

 

[Ontario Hunter]

That would be the complete opposite actually, as the extractor groove weakens a case slightly or at least a case without a groove would have more strength.

It is a coincidence that most lower pressure cartridges are rimmed & are used in a lot of older designed actions or made of lesser steel technology

From the net:

"Modern rimless cases are engineered to withstand extremely high chamber pressures (e.g., .308 Winchester) and are not considered weaker than rimmed counterparts (e.g., .30-30 Win) in, for instance, a bolt-action rifle."

 

[Sarg]

From the net:

"Modern rimless cases are engineered to withstand extremely high chamber pressures (e.g., .308 Winchester) and are not considered weaker than rimmed counterparts (e.g., .30-30 Win) in, for instance, a bolt-action rifle."

I’m not a cartridge engineer but all things considered.
This also from your Net !

“Rimmed cartridge cases are generally considered inherently stronger at the base than otherwise-identical rimless cases
. This is due to the added structural integrity (or "hoop strength") provided by the solid rim, as opposed to the cutaway extractor groove found in rimless”

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Why would you want to build a magazine rifle for a caliber which is intended exclusively for break action firearms ? A .404 Jeffery or even a 10.75x68mm Mauser would be more sensible choices in my experience.

That said, Cogswell & Harrison did built a few of their Certus magazine rifles in .450/400 Nitro Express. The photograph below has been taken from one of @rookhawk ‘s posts.

Only 14 are known to exist (and one of those 14 was destroyed by government officials in India after being confiscated from a Maharaja’s armoury during the Naxite Movement). All built prior to 1907.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I’m not a cartridge engineer but all things considered.
This also from your Net !

“Rimmed cartridge cases are generally considered inherently stronger at the base than otherwise-identical rimless cases
. This is due to the added structural integrity (or "hoop strength") provided by the solid rim, as opposed to the cutaway extractor groove found in rimless”

Yes, I saw that. But reading further it said the "hoop strength" difference between the two is really negligible.

 

[yumastepside]

Lots of rimmed cartridges have been fitted to bolt actions, the 788 Remingtons for example...44 Mag, 30-30, etc.
I have built a 9.3x74R on a P14, originally for the rimmed 303 British. Finn has a 9.x74R in a slant box Rigby....I think its more a matter of preference than anything...

Roger

 

[skydiver386]

Lots of rimmed cartridges have been fitted to bolt actions, the 788 Remingtons for example...44 Mag, 30-30, etc.
I have built a 9.3x74R on a P14, originally for the rimmed 303 British. Finn has a 9.x74R in a slant box Rigby....I think its more a matter of preference than anything...

Roger

Plenty of Siamese Mausers were chambered in rimmed cartridges, including the original 8mm Siamese.