Separate Training Rifle a NECESSITY?

[steve white]

People who shoot a LOT talk about barrel life and barrels as consumables.
But a barrel on a Rigby Highland Stalker is not a high volume, consumable barrel UNLESS you are prepared to remove and replace the iron sights and barrel band sling attachment and re-blue a new barrel which might also need to be machined to identically replace the original=major bucks! It is not a consumable, it is practically a sacred cow!

This does not apply to big bores like the 470, 450, or any lower pressure cartridge. According to the chart on Hornady's Ep. 160, Pt. 3 such cartridges can supply a barrel life of almost 9,000 rounds--probably more than your lifetime of hunting with them. BUT, when you enter the Plains Game higher velocity/higher pressure cartridges from say a Rigby Highlander, etc. you are talking about 3000 or so rounds from a 30'06, or as few as 1400 rounds for 7mm Rem. mag/any PRC. You could fool around and wear a barrel out, and it won't be cheap.

Enter the designated trainer--a rifle made for practice and cheap (relatively speaking) barrel replacement. You can match calibers, format, sights, everything in the kind of rifle that won't break the bank if you burn out a barrel. And some, like the SAUM, or 28 Nosler can have a barrel life of under 1000 rounds until worn out. You are probably going to do one of two things--not train as much, or have a "trainer' rifle, so that you don't trash that beauty in the safe before you get to PG activity. And we're not even talking prairie dogs which can wipe out a barrel in two days shooting.
How do you plan to handle your situation?

 

[RedTag]

.308 Winchester

 

[HankBuck]

People who shoot a LOT talk about barrel life and barrels as consumables.
But a barrel on a Rigby Highland Stalker is not a high volume, consumable barrel UNLESS you are prepared to remove and replace the iron sights and barrel band sling attachment and re-blue a new barrel which might also need to be machined to identically replace the original=major bucks! It is not a consumable, it is practically a sacred cow!

This does not apply to big bores like the 470, 450, or any lower pressure cartridge. According to the chart on Hornady's Ep. 160, Pt. 3 such cartridges can supply a barrel life of almost 9,000 rounds--probably more than your lifetime of hunting with them. BUT, when you enter the Plains Game higher velocity/higher pressure cartridges from say a Rigby Highlander, etc. you are talking about 3000 or so rounds from a 30'06, or as few as 1400 rounds for 7mm Rem. mag/any PRC. You could fool around and wear a barrel out, and it won't be cheap.

Enter the designated trainer--a rifle made for practice and cheap (relatively speaking) barrel replacement. You can match calibers, format, sights, everything in the kind of rifle that won't break the bank if you burn out a barrel. And some, like the SAUM, or 28 Nosler can have a barrel life of under 1000 rounds until worn out. You are probably going to do one of two things--not train as much, or have a "trainer' rifle, so that you don't trash that beauty in the safe before you get to PG activity. And we're not even talking prairie dogs which can wipe out a barrel in two days shooting.
How do you plan to handle your situation?

@steve white - I think barrel wear is a problem mostly in Competition Bench Rest Rifles where a 1/4” or even 1/8” loss of accuracy makes a big difference in competition results. But “wearing out” a medium/big game hunting rifle barrel is unlikely and even if accuracy degraded by 1/2” after 1000s of rounds you’d likely never notice that in Hunting situations. For small game rifles .220 Swift, .22-250 etc.. maybe they will wear out over 1000s of rounds and require Rebarrel to remain effective on “Prairie Dogs” over 300 yrds but that should be rare for a Big Game rifle in standard calibers. Losing an 1/4” in anccuracy in a Big Game rifle won’t be detectable under hunting situations. Also, most barrels are Worn Out by improper barrel cleaning and Not shooting. When cleaning any rifle barrel Stay away from any aluminum rods or metal brushes, especially steel but even bronze is rougher on a barrel then Nylon Bristle brushes, use good quality solvents and don’t allow large lead or copper deposits to build up. Obviously rust & neglect will also negatively affect accuracy.
Still, to your point, practice with a full size rifle in .22lr or .223 is an easy way to maintain proper form, trigger squeeze, steadiness, breath control etc.. without the expense of shooting a bigger bore ammo and reducing some of the rounds put through your favorite hunting rifles. I’m interested in what other members - especially Bench Rest competitors - have to say…they are the real experts (Not ME).

 

[steve white]

.308 Winchester

That is certainly a high round count cartridge for barrel life...about twice what a 243 will provide. Good choice.

 

[mark-hunter]

I have enough calibers to train.
Big bore is left for last 5 shots on the range.
Do not underestimate 22.
So, 22lr, 308 win, 3006 in fmj.

 

[VertigoBE]

For training purposes,
I use a .22LR for shot fundamentals.
Dry-fire with the actual rifle for habituation of manipulating the rifle, reloading, shouldering, etc.

I could imagine upgrading the .22LR to a .223 or .308, just to have it a bit more closer in experience to the big bore (noise, recoil, weight and size of rifle, more similar bolt throw), but I have not done so yet.

 

[gcbailey]

I think your question needs a bit more context. I've never met anyone who puts a lot of rounds through a hunting rifle. I don't see a reason to. While barrel wear is a thing, there is only one rifle I have ever fired that I KNEW I could shoot better than the results I was getting, but I suspect that was more do to misuse and bad cleaning practices than barrel wear. My .275 Rigby is an Oberndorf Mauser built around 1914. Given the factory and time that it was built, it most likely served during World War I. It came to Rigby after the war and they built it as a .275 "High Velocity" in 1927. I acquired the rifle in 2015. I don't know where it was, or who had it prior to 2015, but I took it to Africa and other than a scope issue, the rifle was laser accurate still wearing its 1927 barrel.

This may be controversial, but I don't think the gun really matters. If you know how to shoot, you know how to shoot, regardless of caliber or firearm. If you only own the Rigby and are asking if shooting 700+ rounds at a time on the range is a good idea, I'd say no. It wasn't meant for high volume shooting. If you are asking if you should get another gun for high value shooting, I'd say yes. Get an AR15 and shoot until the barrel melts if you want, then drop a new barrel in. If you are asking if you should get another rifle that is a Rigby, or similar to your Rigby, so that you can shoot a lot and not worry about barrel wear or flinching, I say no again. Shoot a few rounds through your Rigby, make sure it hits where you want, then put it away until you are ready to take it hunting. Shoot a few more rounds prior to your trip to verify everything is still properly set, and you're good to go.

 

[GuttormG]

A good 22 or air rifle will learn you to shoot.

 

[farmer_john]

People who shoot a LOT talk about barrel life and barrels as consumables.
But a barrel on a Rigby Highland Stalker is not a high volume, consumable barrel UNLESS you are prepared to remove and replace the iron sights and barrel band sling attachment and re-blue a new barrel which might also need to be machined to identically replace the original=major bucks! It is not a consumable, it is practically a sacred cow!

This does not apply to big bores like the 470, 450, or any lower pressure cartridge. According to the chart on Hornady's Ep. 160, Pt. 3 such cartridges can supply a barrel life of almost 9,000 rounds--probably more than your lifetime of hunting with them. BUT, when you enter the Plains Game higher velocity/higher pressure cartridges from say a Rigby Highlander, etc. you are talking about 3000 or so rounds from a 30'06, or as few as 1400 rounds for 7mm Rem. mag/any PRC. You could fool around and wear a barrel out, and it won't be cheap.

Enter the designated trainer--a rifle made for practice and cheap (relatively speaking) barrel replacement. You can match calibers, format, sights, everything in the kind of rifle that won't break the bank if you burn out a barrel. And some, like the SAUM, or 28 Nosler can have a barrel life of under 1000 rounds until worn out. You are probably going to do one of two things--not train as much, or have a "trainer' rifle, so that you don't trash that beauty in the safe before you get to PG activity. And we're not even talking prairie dogs which can wipe out a barrel in two days shooting.
How do you plan to handle your situation?

The average shooter isnt going to shoot out a barrel. And I doubt your shoulder sill survive shooting out a 416rigby.

Theres nothing wrong with having a training rifle. Especially if you want to prevent damage to a $10k+ gun.
As for barrel life. It depends on bullet weight and velocity.

Heavier hotter loads = lower barrel life. If your pushing stuff to the max you can eat barrels faster.
If your groups start to open up reload your ammo deeper to offset the throat erosion. And if that doesnt work rebarrel. But keep a round log and dope book with each rifle.

 

[BryceM]

I don’t shoot as much as some, but I certainly shoot more than most. In my whole life I’ve “shot out” two barrels. One, a factory .300 Wby from a rifle made in the 1960s, and then used by me over the course of many decades of hunting and one extremely busy period when I got serious and actually learned how to shoot. It probably had 1500 rounds down the tube, and even then it wasn’t truly “shot out.” It was old enough to have a 1:12 factory barrel, and 180gr TTSX weren’t stabilizing well. The second is a .22-250, that opened up from 1/2” at 100 yards to just under 1” at 100 yards after maybe 1200 rounds over 4000 fps. It’s in the shop right now and will be chambered in .22-250 AI with a much faster twist barrel than the original 1:14.

Anyone actually shooting out the barrel of a big bore has a stronger constitution than I have. For 99% of people who ever pull a trigger, wearing out a barrel is not an issue. Neglect and/or improper cleaning are much bigger issues.

Training rifle = lower recoil, easier to work on trigger fundamentals and shooting form. Cheaper to feed. Plenty of relatively inexpensive rifles would work very well here. Something like a Tikka T3 in .243 or .308 comes to mind.

 

[Old3Toe]

How do you plan to handle your situation?

No training rifle needed...I just use basic math.

I reduced the total round count of my favorite 7x57 by 50% just by getting another 7x57! Then after my third 7mm Mauser showed up, the first two only get shot 33% of the time. Not sure I could wear them out like this if I tried. Heck, I can go through a hundred rounds in an afternoon and feel like I barely shot any of them!

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

To me the kind of training, to avoid having to shoot thousands of rounds, that comes to mind is actual shooting schools with the very rifle or rifles you plan to hunt with. In very short order most professional shooting schools will have you, and any bad habits you bring, sorted out.

That said, I did plenty of plinking with a .22 when I was a kid. I didn’t go to a shooting school until I was in my late 40’s, but I’m glad I did.

My rifles are accurate and I shoot them hunting with confidence. Coulple shots at the rage to validate and a couple more when I get to my hunting destination and I’m golden.

Best thing I ever did was go to a long range shooting school!

Now, if you just like shooting, well that’s a different story…

 

[mark-hunter]

How do you plan to handle your situation?

Those who do not have 22lr, will never learn to shoot.
So, first step is having a 22lr rifle.

Next is 308 win.

Another possibility is rifle with exchangeable barrels, such as blaser r8.
You shoot the barrel out, buy a new barrel.

One of very famous authors when he made an interview for getting a job in gun magazine was asked: How many 22's does he have?
He replied in exact numbers, like 2, or 3 or 5....
He got a job.
The editor later told him, if he had no 22 rifle, he would never get a job.

Trigger time is trigger time, with 22lr or with 300 win mag.

When you come to think of it, there are many problems related to shooting center fire rifles: price of ammunition, recoil, barrel life time. The only real solution for real shooting to all this, is 22lr.
And btw, I have three 22lr guns.

 

[farmer_john]

Those who do not have 22lr, will never learn to shoot.
So, first step is having a 22lr rifle.

Next is 308 win.

Another possibility is rifle with exchangeable barrels, such as blaser r8.
You shoot the barrel out, buy a new barrel.

One of very famous authors when he made an interview for getting a job in gun magazine was asked: How many 22's does he have?
He replied in exact numbers, like 2, or 3 or 5....
He got a job.
The editor later told him, if he had no 22 rifle, he would never get a job.

Trigger time is trigger time, with 22lr or with 300 win mag.

When you come to think of it, there are many problems related to shooting center fire rifles: price of ammunition, recoil, barrel life time. The only real solution for real shooting to all this, is 22lr.
And btw, I have three 22lr guns.

I agree with you to a point. As long as you work within the tools limitations.

 

[Tex .416]

That is certainly a high round count cartridge for barrel life...about twice what a 243 will provide. Good choice.

I have over 6,000 rounds recorded on my favorite .308. Guessing there are another 1,000 or more shot when I was hot and tired and forgot to write them down. It still is easily a sub-1 Moa barrel.

 

[Newboomer]

I have over 6,000 rounds recorded on my favorite .308. Guessing there are another 1,000 or more shot when I was hot and tired and forgot to write them down. It still is easily a sub-1 Moa barrel.

I have over 6,000 rounds recorded on my favorite .308. Guessing there are another 1,000 or more shot when I was hot and tired and forgot to write them down. It still is easily a sub-1 Moa barrel.

Shoot the rifle you hunt with. Even if you shoot 100 rounds a week you will get more than enough practice for practical hunting and the barrel will probably last your lifetime. Now if you totally run max loads that may change things.

 

[R eight]

Another reason to own the Blaser R8 .

 

[SRvet]

In my opinion neglect of the barrel wears out more barrels than overuse. As an example I bought a Blaser R8 recently with a reported low shot count. The 30/06 barrel was scoped and found to be heavily pitted as a consequence of powder residue and a slightly moist environment combining. The outside of the barrel was in reasonably good condition with no evidence of rust. Fortunately the price was adjusted to account for this and a new barrel has been fitted so all is well. If the rifle were a classic Rigby then the problem would have been much less straightforward to resolve.

 

[HankBuck]

Those who do not have 22lr, will never learn to shoot.
So, first step is having a 22lr rifle.

Next is 308 win.

Another possibility is rifle with exchangeable barrels, such as blaser r8.
You shoot the barrel out, buy a new barrel.

One of very famous authors when he made an interview for getting a job in gun magazine was asked: How many 22's does he have?
He replied in exact numbers, like 2, or 3 or 5....
He got a job.
The editor later told him, if he had no 22 rifle, he would never get a job.

Trigger time is trigger time, with 22lr or with 300 win mag.

When you come to think of it, there are many problems related to shooting center fire rifles: price of ammunition, recoil, barrel life time. The only real solution for real shooting to all this, is 22lr.
And btw, I have three 22lr guns.

@mark-hunter - I somewhat agree, with a few “if’s”:
1). IF the .22lr has a good trigger and is reasonably accurate out to 50 yrds.
2). IF the .22lr is similar size to an average size hunting rifle ie: Not a 4.5 lb. Ruger 10/22.
Either way, as you point out, it’s certainly never bad to practice with a .22lr - won’t cause ‘flinch’ and helps you hold steady and learn trigger squeeze. My point is only that practicing with a larger size rifle in .22lr (Kimber Super America?) helps replicate many hunting rifles in size, weight, trigger quality and accuracy.

 

[Wyosongdog]

Multiple 22’s is a good problem to have. I absolutely love shooting my 22’s and can do it in my back yard suppressed not quite as much as my bow but kinda close. Thinking I need to make the lea- to a vudoo or rim x now. Damn bad habits. But they both wear identical stocks, triggers, and scopes as my big game guns