Saboted Bullet Loads?

[Huvius]

That's a lot of wrapping to get to .458" and results would be lacking I bet.
May be even better to get one of the kids around with a 3-D printer to just make some perfectly sized sabots for you. May be a nice little project for them!

 

[mgstucson]

True, but could be done. You could use a 423 bullet from a 404 Jeff or a 429 bullet from a 444 Marlin. Whatever bakes your biscuits.

 

[mgstucson]

In actual point of fact, drafting vellum, or premium printing paper (60#), is .0075 thick, dry. The diameter difference between .458 and .416 is .042 dia, divided by 2 is .021 radius. So 3 wraps of paper, dry, maybe even 2 if applied wet (which they usually are if I undestand the procedure) with a 458 GC, might work just fine for a paper patched 416 in a 458 bore. That DOES NOT SEEM an excessive amount of wrapping for a paper patched bullet, but I don't know. I have never made a paper patched bullet of any kind, but from all indications they have a great reputation for accuracy. As with any reloading procedure, everything new should be safety tested with all due safety precautions observed.

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[Huvius]

I've paper patched quite a bit but admittedly never tried it on a jacketed bullet.
I think the target diameter can be attained but I don't know how well the paper will grip a jacketed bullet and whether the gasses will simply blow the paper off of the bullet or whether it will impart the desired spin for that matter, as the layered paper is thicker than the depth of the rifling.
Your idea of gas checking it would probably help in this regard.
Ideally, the bullet (cast of course) will still engage the rifling but the paper will act as the jacket just as copper does on a "jacketed" bullet.
I may give this a try just for shizzles but jacketed bullets are just so darn expensive compared to a good 'ol lead projectile!

 

[mgstucson]

I've paper patched quite a bit but admittedly never tried it on a jacketed bullet.
I think the target diameter can be attained but I don't know how well the paper will grip a jacketed bullet and whether the gasses will simply blow the paper off of the bullet or whether it will impart the desired spin for that matter, as the layered paper is thicker than the depth of the rifling.
Your idea of gas checking it would probably help in this regard.
Ideally, the bullet (cast of course) will still engage the rifling but the paper will act as the jacket just as copper does on a "jacketed" bullet.
I may give this a try just for shizzles but jacketed bullets are just so darn expensive compared to a good 'ol lead projectile!

Sounds like you should know. You might need to do something like this to the bullet.

I think the bullet would shoot out of the paper without the GC. With the GC, as the cartridge fires, the paper will stack against GC until the pressure increases and insures firm engagement between bullet and rifling. Of course that is all theoretical. Theorectical is also how everything that works, starts (as well as everything that doesn't.)

Jacketed bullets aren't expensive at all if you make them yourself. Maybe I should do the experiment.

Cheers.

 

[Huvius]

I swage bullets from spent brass some too.
Knurling does add a lot of grip for sure.
I’ve tried the old method of rolling a file over a cast bullet which does increase the lube carrying capacity over a standard groove lubed bullet but may not be adequate for long barreled rifles.

If it works, it would be a good way to use 40S&W brass but may as well use 45ACP drawn down for your bullets and forget the paper altogether.
In my experience, paper patching is optimal for bore sized black powder projectiles or one to two ‘thou over groove for smokeless loading.

 

[mgstucson]

This is just a theoretical exercise for the OP. I got a 416 I shoot 416's in, and a 458 I shoot 458's in. I don't think I need to shoot 416's in a 458.

 

[Huvius]

This is just a theoretical exercise for the OP. I got a 416 I shoot 416's in, and a 458 I shoot 458's in. I don't think I need to shoot 416's in a 458.

Very true...
Seems like a "doomsday" style exercise.
Honestly, one could shoot a short segment of steel/copper/brass rod in a rifle with a thick enough paper jacket!
Not inclined to use one of my rifles as the test mule though LOL!!