Rifle/ammo failure on Ele

[VINOYASADO]

Hi guys!

Not sure if this video is already here, but I would like to know why so many shoots? (its normal?) and why the rifle /ammo failure?

pew-pew starts at 36 min mark

 

[steve white]

A culling belt full of ammo, and suddenly you hear, "oh shit, last one"--literally ran out of ammo. Extra credit for world's slowest double reloads. Unexplained failure to fire a few times. Was the rifle not re-cocking?

Glad, the PH didn't tell him it was a possible 80 pounder--might have made him nervous enough to fire a full culling belt of ammo....oh well, as Capstick said of one hunter, at least he didn't cut and run.

 

[JHT]

I had the misfortune of watching this last night and believe it is worse than the clip PETA put out of the American hunter repeatability struggling to hit the brain of a seated, incapacitated bull. I wish they would remove this one as it’s definitely not doing our sport any favors. I suspect this is not the last we’ll see of this if it gets into the wrong hands. I get keeping the raw, unedited footage, but sometimes, that footage needs to be locked in a vault.

 

[K-man]

For the record, I haven’t seen this video but it’s like hundreds of others. I’m so glad most of my mistakes have been made before cell phones and internet. I disagree about not having it available to view, It can help hunters avoid similar mistakes in the field. As far as a non-hunters take, do we ban bad driving videos or construction failures? Use them as talking points and own up to people making mistakes in all fields and hobbies.

 

[Altitude sickness]

Poor bullet placement

 

[Andrew62]

I don't know if the guy had a gun issue, ammo issue, or what was going on, but as I watched him struggling to fire off a shot, I found myself yelling at the hunter, Shoot Man, Shoot!!!! 14 shots later between the hunter and guide, he has a very nice elephant!

 

[Monski]

I would love to know where all those shots hit. Some of the first volley had to be placed somewhat close to home or they wouldn't have been able to run the bull down for the other, later shots. I will have to watch again and count how many. Near the end, was the client pulling the same trigger repeatedly on an empty barrel?

 

[Monski]

I would love to know where all those shots hit. Some of the first volley had to be placed somewhat close to home or they wouldn't have been able to run the bull down for the other, later shots. I will have to watch again and count how many. Near the end, was the client pulling the same trigger repeatedly on an empty barrel?

Andrew62 answered the shot count while I was typing. 14 shots,Wow!!

 

[skydiver386]

In this case, I think the Ph should have stepped in and fired an anchoring shot. Then the client could follow up if a finisher was needed. Clearly the client was not up to the task.

 

[RedTag]

Where’s that Mark Sullivan when you need him??

 

[towserthemouser]

Failing light.... time pressure..... elected to "go for the shoulder shot" instead of waiting for the side brain shot they wanted, or trying to reposition for a better angle...... didn't seem to have practiced reloading the double.... and the presumably brand new Heym went click a couple of times instead of bang (?!?).

Ultimately they got the (very nice) bull. Momma said say something nice or don't say anything at all......

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I believe that the first couple of shoulder shots would have eventually proven fatal for the bull (as mentioned in the video by Mr. Taylor). Due to the pressing need to secure the elephant before sundown (in order to avoid a long tracking job), the client was instructed to keep pouring more shots into the elephant until the bull went down on the spot.

What’s far more concerning, is the fact that:
1) The client had TWO misfires. He was clearly using Hornady DGS (Dangerous Game Solids) factory loads in his Heym Model 89B (in either a .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express chambering). I’m beginning to lose more & more faith in Hornady day by day.
2) At the 39 minute mark, the client approached the wounded bull elephant with only one barrel of his rifle loaded (despite having ample time to load the second barrel).

Elephants are notoriously difficult to down quickly with the shoulder shot (especially with calibers smaller than .500 bore). They usually end up going 50 yards on a heart shot, 100 yards on a double lung shot and much further if only one lung is ruptured.

I emptied an entire magazine (6 rounds) of a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602 (loaded with RWS 300Gr nickel jacketed round nosed FMJ solids) into the heart-lung region of my first elephant in Botswana. Most of those bullets had managed to hit vital regions, but it still managed to cross a stream & give us one well of a tracking job for more than 40 minutes.

 

[Rubberhead]

Although it didn't go as well as it could have, it is still a way, way better death for the elephant than anything "natural" unless it got hit by a meteor or fell off of a high, rocky cliff...

 

[towserthemouser]

I believe that the first couple of shoulder shots would have eventually proven fatal for the bull (as mentioned in the video by Mr. Taylor). Due to the pressing need to secure the elephant before sundown (in order to avoid a long tracking job), the client was instructed to keep pouring more shots into the elephant until the bull went down on the spot.

What’s far more concerning, is the fact that:
1) The client had TWO misfires. He was clearly using Hornady DGS (Dangerous Game Solids) factory loads in his Heym Model 89B (in either a .470 Nitro Express or .500 Nitro Express chambering). I’m beginning to lose more & more faith in Hornady day by day.
2) At the 39 minute mark, the client approached the wounded bull elephant with only one barrel of his rifle loaded (despite having ample time to load the second barrel).

Elephants are notoriously difficult to down quickly with the shoulder shot (especially with calibers smaller than .500 bore). They usually end up going 50 yards on a heart shot, 100 yards on a double lung shot and much further if only one lung is ruptured.

I emptied an entire magazine (6 rounds) of a .375 Holland & Holland Magnum BRNO ZKK602 (loaded with RWS 300Gr nickel jacketed round nosed FMJ solids) into the heart-lung region of my first elephant in Botswana. Most of those bullets had managed to hit vital regions, but it still managed to cross a stream & give us one well of a tracking job for more than 40 minutes.
View attachment 692238

I recently shared a campfire with a group of Zimbabwe PHs who categorically and unambiguously advised against the Hornady loads..... it's sad because they clearly need some stiff factory load competition. All would benefit from having 3 or 4 factory loads to choose from in big bore calibers. Including Hornady.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I recently shared a campfire with a group of Zimbabwe PHs who categorically and unambiguously advised against the Hornady loads..... it's sad because they clearly need some stiff factory load competition. All would benefit from having 3 or 4 factory loads to choose from in big bore calibers. Including Hornady.

@towserthemouser

I couldn’t agree more. If you look at my posts on the “Bullet Data Base” thread, then you’ll see that I’ve recently been sharing many photographs of Hornady DGS bullets breaking to pieces (or even flat out mushrooming like soft points !) upon striking elephant, hippopotamus or even Cape buffalo bones (like this 400Gr .416 Rigby factory load which failed on a side brain shot on a bull elephant).

But cartridges flat out misfiring (esp. in the field when your quarry is a five to six ton bull elephant) brings quality control issues to a whole new level.

 

[Dinsdale]

In this case, I think the Ph should have stepped in and fired an anchoring shot. Then the client could follow up if a finisher was needed. Clearly the client was not up to the task.

Len has a ton of experience, and is about as calm, cool , and collected of any ph I have had the pleasure to hunt with.

He also won't shoot unless he knows he has too, and will let a client as much as possible finish the job.

I put 2 good hits in a buffalo and short stroked my 3rd when we were hustling for a better angle. I expected him to shoot, and he calmly put up sticks, and said hit him again when your reloaded. Never even took his Lott off his shoulder with his typical muzzledown carry.

True pro.

 

[deewayne2003]

I just don't understand the leather work gloves.... even if the fingers are cut off, their is simply no need for them and I believe a contributing factor in the slow reloads. I would definitely like to hear the real story about what was going on with the ammo.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I just don't understand the leather work gloves.... even if the fingers are cut off, their is simply no need for them and I believe a contributing factor in the slow reloads. I would definitely like to hear the real story about what was going on with the ammo.

There are some double rifles (such as the pre World War I John Rigby & Co. variants chambered in .450 Nitro Express) which don’t have much material on the fore end and this forces the operator to grip the barrels with their non-shooting hand. After a couple of shots, the barrels can start getting extremely hot. Blistering hot.

The same principle applies with many old English side by side “Driven grouse” shotguns with the thin splinter style fore ends. For this reason, it is a common practice in English driven bird shoots… for the shooters to wear a pair of gloves (or at least one on their non-shooting hand). Either that, or get a shotgun with the more practical & comfortable (but not as aesthetically appealing) beavertail or semi beavertail fore end.

Arthur H. Neumann normalized the practice in 1903 after getting his new John Rigby & Co. .450 Nitro Express).

 

[MacJenkins]

A lot more practice would probably help? Some guys just can’t ever get competent with double triggers. Seen it a few times wing shooting with accomplished hunters and it just throws them off. I’m not even sure if he was getting two rounds loaded every time and possibly pulled the trigger twice in an empty chamber.

As far as Len, I’ve had 9 different PH’s in Africa and he is one of my favorites. We got in a bad situation with a Buff once where we tracked him through long grass and woke him up at roughly 3 yards. It got pretty dicey and he was calm as can be and ran the bolt on his Lott quickly!

He’s a true pleasure to be around and hunt with.

 

[PARA45]

Wow, SMH. This video shouldn't be on YouTube, this is why our passion has so many haters.