question on 450/400

[Chrisbritton]

I've only recently started to research this caliber. I see 2 3/8, 3 and 3 1/4..with 3 / 3 1/4 being listed as common safari calibers.

looking at ammo availability and guns for sale..I see mostly 3" guns for sale..and every box of Hornady i looked at was for 3 1/4...

How common is it to find 3"? or which is better?

Also..can the 3 1/4 chamber the 3" as well. I have not found a cartridge drawing..so don't know where the extra size is..ie..before or after the shoulder.

Just thinking about my next gun ahead of time.
I already have 375h&h in a ruger #1, 458 lott in a ruger magnum, 416 rigby in a cz550, 9.3x74r and 470ne in sabatti doubles. ( plus some smaller stuff like 270, 307win, 444 marlin and 45-70 in various doubles ).

Just looking for something different.. 404 seems out of the question due to virtually no availability of guns or ammo... didnt want a 416 variant...

that kinda leaves 500ne, 450ne, 450/400

not looking to venture too much higher than 5xx.. nor looking for any bpe guns either. i like a double..though obviously I do have a single and a couple bolt guns in these calibers...

( would consider a cape gun though, I guess )

Thanks

 

[bwanamrm]

I think you might have it backwards, the 450/400 3 inch is much more popular and Hornady loads for it. Also called the 450/400 Jeffery. The 3 1/4 is much harder to find ammo for with Kynoch closing shop.

You may be thinking of the 450 3 1/4 which is the 450 NE. This one is also loaded by Hornady but a completely different cartridge. The 450 3 1/4 will definitely not load in any 450/400!

I have a William Evans 450/400 3 1/4 and buy ammo anytime I can find it. I have never attempted to fire the 450/400 3" in it so don't know if it can be done or vice versa, the 3 1/4" in a 3"...

I am always at a loss for why the English makers all came out with proprietary calibers and loads. Quite confusing to us Yanks.

 

[Bandera]

The 450-400 NE 3” is the most common in modern firearms.
The 450-400 3” is also known as the 400 Jeffery.

The cartridge specs are different in several places between the 3” and 3 1/4 not just the length.
For example the 3” has a neck dia. of .440
Neck dia. on the 3 1/4 .435

 

[BlueFlyer]

My understanding was that the 31/4" was the original black powder cartridge. When smokeless powder (cordite) was introduced, there were extraction issues. To overcome the extraction issues the length of the neck was reduced to become the 3" cartridge.
To use the 3" cartridge in a gun chambered for the 31/4" version you need to check it is nitro proofed.

 

[MRBlack]

I believe the 3” version has a thicker rim than the 3 1/4” as well

 

[Safari Dave]

Kevin P is the local expert on this cartridge...

I use a .470 NE in a DR and a .416 Rigby in a BA.

 

[Huvius]

MRBlack is correct in regard to the rim.
A 3” cartridge will not chamber in a 3-1/4” gun unless the chamber has been altered.
The 3-1/4” was derived form the 450NE 3-1/4” and you can use the 450 brass to make the 400 brass if you need to.

 

[318AE]

As others have said, the 450/400 3” is the most common and also called the 400 Jeffery. The brass is quite a bit thicker than the 450/400 3 1/4, which seems to be about the same as the 450 3 1/4 NE. None are interchangeable.

Don’t try and reason the British NE cartridges, just accept them for what they are….

 

[IvW]

To use the 3" cartridge in a gun chambered for the 31/4" version you need to check it is nitro proofed.

You cannot use 3" ammo in a 31/4" rifle irrespective if it was nitro proofed or not......

 

[TheDoubleD]

I have Ken Howell's custom cartridge book, Howell list a Birmingham Proof drawing, ICI Metals drawing and the CIP drawing for the 3 inch. The three drawing only differ in rim dimensions. The difference is 0.0002. Shoulder diameter difference is 0.0001. In-significant. I would guess and speculate that Hornady used CIP dimensions. Perhaps they may have even submitted this to SAMMI for US standards.

Howell list for 3-1/4 I didn't compare these to each other. This discussion is can you use the 3 inch in the 3-1/4 chamber, and the relevant dimension jumps out at you in the drawings.

The answer is no, the 3 inch version will not fit int he 3-1/4 chamber. The 3 inch has a shoulder length of 2.4000" . The shoulder length of the 3-1/4 inch version is only 2.3000".

 

[Chrisbritton]

I think you might have it backwards, the 450/400 3 inch is much more popular and Hornady loads for it. Also called the 450/400 Jeffery. The 3 1/4 is much harder to find ammo for with Kynoch closing shop.

You may be thinking of the 450 3 1/4 which is the 450 NE. This one is also loaded by Hornady but a completely different cartridge. The 450 3 1/4 will definitely not load in any 450/400!

I have a William Evans 450/400 3 1/4 and buy ammo anytime I can find it. I have never attempted to fire the 450/400 3" in it so don't know if it can be done or vice versa, the 3 1/4" in a 3"...

I am always at a loss for why the English makers all came out with proprietary calibers and loads. Quite confusing to us Yanks.

I just did a search for 450/400 & of the first 6 boxes that came up..only 1 was 3".. thats what made me wonder.

 

[Chrisbritton]

So..450/400 3" is the common one. Those are the rifles I saw for sale. That makes sense.

thanks

 

[Philip Glass]

I love my .450/400!

 

[Chrisbritton]

is there a consensus on which is more popular.. 450/400 3" vs straight 450ne?

I do load alot of .458 stuff..so thatvwould be 1 plus for 450ne I guess.

 

[Houston Bill]

Today the 450/400 3" is more popular than the 450 NE which is a 3-1/4" cartridge.

 

[Rare Breed]

is there a consensus on which is more popular.. 450/400 3" vs straight 450ne?

I do load alot of .458 stuff..so thatvwould be 1 plus for 450ne I guess.

450-400 more popular by far today. I have owned both and have now settled on my Rigby 450 NE. The real difference is the availability of ammunition with more available for the former. I am a reloader. I had only Hornady to choose for my 450 NE and paid higher prices to obtain my brass for reloading than I paid for the former

 

[Rare Breed]

The 450-400 has enjoyed a resurgence as people wanting to start with a DR who are somewhat recoil sensitive find this caliber perfect for them

 

[glblanchard]

I have a 450/400 in a Ruger No1. Have taken cape buffalo, warthog, and American bison using a Cutting Edge Bullet, 370 gr Safari Raptor. It's a killer, and fun to shoot!

 

[Surgeon1]

I’m lucky enough to have several DRs and after using a 450-400 Heym on the last 3 trips to Africa it has become my favorite. Much softer to shoot than a 450NE, 470NE or a 500. Shooting A-frames it just plane works. I’ve shot 5 buffalo with it and they have not required tracking. The ability to get 2 bullets into Buff in 1.2 sec makes it awesome (my split times are consistently 1.1-1.3 sec) and no 470 or bolt gun in my hands even comes close to that. Used it in March in Uganda and will again in 2026 back in Uganda. For me, my bigger doubles will likely stay home with maybe Elephant in dense cover!

 

[Chrisbritton]

Thanks for the info gentlemen! Gives me some ideas to investigate.