Preservation - Nature Conservation

[Lybica]

I have not found a forum section for these topics
Conservation / Preservation / Wildlife Management
Which are I suggest integral parts of the pursuit of hunting
My post below refers
I understand that this is a HUNTING site primarily orientated to DG ( dangerous game )
So apologies to Jerome Phillipe for what follows
In reference to the post in the DOUBLE RIFLE section Rigbys first 450 No 2 NE

I am NOT "anti-hunting" - I am all in favour of ethical hunting where the primary aim is constructive use
I value life - ALL forms of life
I am NOT in favour of killing things just to kill something - especially / or perhaps because it is dangerous
I refer to the image on the front page of someone holding up a dead brown spotted hyena ( Crocuta crocuta ), - something I find distasteful and hard to understand
It would appear to me that in the case of killing where there is no justifiable necessity there is too much money and too much ego involved.
Yes I understand the economic benefits of Big Game / Safari / Trophy hunting and the benefit of placing a commercial value on game animals. Although there are concerns about how much of this - economic benefit filters down to the lower rungs of the hierarchy. How much is invested in long term management and the extension of "natural-range" ?
Please see the two articles above

Many people ( hunters ) come to Africa spend a week or two here "bag a trophy or two" to take home and never learn much about the place or the country in which they have "bagged their trophies"
Or the larger picture of the animals ( game ) they are interested in shooting
Perhaps they are not interested ?
Perhaps their hosts never cover these topics ?
Perhaps they are never .. "coached" ?

Perhaps I am wrong ?
Perhaps I have not read through enough posts here ?

Some local South African background may help - thinking about Elephant
( Although similar problems are not restricted to just South Africa )

Urgent need to rethink elephant management strategies and move from culling to coexistence

Action, not finger-pointing, is needed for Madikwe’s elephants

But what do I know - I am .. amagqirha - abantu abamhlope

 

[grand veneur]

It's difficult to discuss such topics objectively. Everyone believes they represent the truth, be it the hunters or the conservationists. It is certain that a happy medium would be ideal, but it is not possible. In Africa, you mostly meet trophy hunters, even if some claim they are not. The majority is convinced that trophy hunting means nature conservation and is also a huge source of income for the local population. Although I am also a trophy hunter, I often question myself and don't believe that trophy hunting makes such a significant contribution to preservation and nature conservation, and based on my good knowledge of African manners, I also don't believe that an excessive amount of what we pay ends up by the lower classes of the African society. You quoted a picture of a questionable trophy. I will go a bit further and also question the hunting of classic game species, like the lion for example. That they have to be hunted to preserve the species seems far-fetched to me. Depending on the posts and reactions I will receive from side of the real trophy hunters, we will continue to talk about this very controversial topic.

 

[Pheroze]

Every year, a couple of times at least, family and friends head into the field to hunt. We head to a rural area. The entire activity is regulated and taxed to ensure populations remain appropriate for the area, and money goes into government coffers. The first reasonable animal that ambles along gets shot. Birds fall from the sky. Meat goes in the freezer, photos are taken, and particularly nice specimens end up on a wall. The local small towns become home and we enjoy each other and the environment.

I travel to South Africa. I travel to a rural area. I engage in a regulated hunt that ensures the population of animals is appropriate for the area; taxes and fees go into government coffers, small towns and big cities become my home away from home. I enjoy time with family and friends. I pay extra for someone to make sure if get to a beautiful part of the rural area and they also make sure I take the appropriate animal, not just the next one that comes along. Meat goes into someone’s freezer, and bit of left over skin and bones goes on my wall. Photos are taken

The only difference I see between these two activities is that I travel a heck of a long way to pay someone who ensures the right animal is taken, and, the meat ends up in someone else’s belly. This distinction of “trophy hunting” as a separate activity is nonsense. In modern society hunting serves a conservation purpose, meat is eaten by people, and all the while allowing for the continuation of a tradition that goes back millennia. If the local government doesn’t spend the money wisely that is an issue for the people who live there. The fact that meat is consumed and money is spent is otherwise a constant whether you are a tourist or a local.

People have been beautifying their bodies and homes with bits of the animals they have killed for as long as there has been hunting. I think the term “trophy hunting” is not helpful to any discussion about conservation because it does not differentiate the overall activity from any other form of modern hunting.

 

[RLD]

I have not found a forum section for these topics
Conservation / Preservation / Wildlife Management
Which are I suggest integral parts of the pursuit of hunting
My post below refers
I understand that this is a HUNTING site primarily orientated to DG ( dangerous game )
So apologies to Jerome Phillipe for what follows
In reference to the post in the DOUBLE RIFLE section Rigbys first 450 No 2 NE

I am NOT "anti-hunting" - I am all in favour of ethical hunting where the primary aim is constructive use
I value life - ALL forms of life
I am NOT in favour of killing things just to kill something - especially / or perhaps because it is dangerous
I refer to the image on the front page of someone holding up a dead brown spotted hyena ( Crocuta crocuta ), - something I find distasteful and hard to understand
It would appear to me that in the case of killing where there is no justifiable necessity there is too much money and too much ego involved.
Yes I understand the economic benefits of Big Game / Safari / Trophy hunting and the benefit of placing a commercial value on game animals. Although there are concerns about how much of this - economic benefit filters down to the lower rungs of the hierarchy. How much is invested in long term management and the extension of "natural-range" ?
Please see the two articles above

Many people ( hunters ) come to Africa spend a week or two here "bag a trophy or two" to take home and never learn much about the place or the country in which they have "bagged their trophies"
Or the larger picture of the animals ( game ) they are interested in shooting
Perhaps they are not interested ?
Perhaps their hosts never cover these topics ?
Perhaps they are never .. "coached" ?

Perhaps I am wrong ?
Perhaps I have not read through enough posts here ?

Some local South African background may help - thinking about Elephant
( Although similar problems are not restricted to just South Africa )

Urgent need to rethink elephant management strategies and move from culling to coexistence

Action, not finger-pointing, is needed for Madikwe’s elephants

But what do I know - I am .. amagqirha - abantu abamhlope

So let me understand your position. You are opposed to sport hunting? How do you define "constructive use"? Does allowing the PH and his support workers to make a living not meet the qualification of a "constructive use" to you? Where are you putting that bar for this conversation?

And at the risk of sounding blunt, why is what you find distasteful important? Do you think anything that comes from ego or money is bad? If so, why is that important? I struggle to see where you are going with any of this.

I read Mr. Cruise's article and if I had time it would be easy to write a thorough rebuttal, but I can't commit that time right now. Suffice to say I find it illogical, disingenuous, misleading and close to dishonest. While he does not like the term "carrying capacity" it does not mean that the concept is not completely scientifically valid. It is really just shorthand for the indisputable scientific fact that there is a limit to the number of any species that can be supported by the resources in a ecosystem. That is just basic math, and while Mr. Cruise may not like the math, it doesn't make the math invalid.

 

[K-man]

How do you value an animal? Is it the actual dollars paid to the P.H. and staff? Or the trophy fee paid to the conservation organization and government involved? Or even the place in the ecosystem that animal takes? All of those are legitimate values to place on an animal, whether you see the meat eaten or not. Hunters take part in conservation by taking a small representative amount of ALL species to maintain a balance between the carrying amount the land can support and the predators that also inhabit the area. If any one species overpopulate you cannot support the ecosystem. Explain a little more your concerns about taking this certain animal. Reasonable discussions are always welcome.

 

[Flbt]

I have not found a forum section for these topics
Conservation / Preservation / Wildlife Management
Which are I suggest integral parts of the pursuit of hunting
My post below refers
I understand that this is a HUNTING site primarily orientated to DG ( dangerous game )
So apologies to Jerome Phillipe for what follows
In reference to the post in the DOUBLE RIFLE section Rigbys first 450 No 2 NE

I am NOT "anti-hunting" - I am all in favour of ethical hunting where the primary aim is constructive use
I value life - ALL forms of life
I am NOT in favour of killing things just to kill something - especially / or perhaps because it is dangerous
I refer to the image on the front page of someone holding up a dead brown spotted hyena ( Crocuta crocuta ), - something I find distasteful and hard to understand
It would appear to me that in the case of killing where there is no justifiable necessity there is too much money and too much ego involved.
Yes I understand the economic benefits of Big Game / Safari / Trophy hunting and the benefit of placing a commercial value on game animals. Although there are concerns about how much of this - economic benefit filters down to the lower rungs of the hierarchy. How much is invested in long term management and the extension of "natural-range" ?
Please see the two articles above

Many people ( hunters ) come to Africa spend a week or two here "bag a trophy or two" to take home and never learn much about the place or the country in which they have "bagged their trophies"
Or the larger picture of the animals ( game ) they are interested in shooting
Perhaps they are not interested ?
Perhaps their hosts never cover these topics ?
Perhaps they are never .. "coached" ?

Perhaps I am wrong ?
Perhaps I have not read through enough posts here ?

Some local South African background may help - thinking about Elephant
( Although similar problems are not restricted to just South Africa )

Urgent need to rethink elephant management strategies and move from culling to coexistence

Action, not finger-pointing, is needed for Madikwe’s elephants

But what do I know - I am .. amagqirha - abantu abamhlope

I am not speaking for African hunting I would dearly love to go and would be open to any education about the animals.

And on my farm I pretect the quail
I have 3 wild coves and do not allow them to be messed with.
I like the deer but there numbers are getting to pest instead of game. And it’s going to get worse. About 1300 acers of swamp and timber have just been sold and are being cut up for house.
Hogs are pest and really need to be killed in very high numbers.
I really like animals but have no problem killing them when I believe nessary.

I do not like animal rights nut cases.
That would rather them starve to death instead of being hunted.
And of the money going in to Africa I believe it’s nessary and I don’t know about the filter down.
But they farm and to put up with the animals that can damage a farm like some of the bigger animals could.
If the farms were not getting something of value for it. They would take out the animals.

And for not liking how a animals are posed in a pic. Simply don’t look at them.
I am not a hunter willing to hide what I have killed like it was something wrong.
To appease some animal lover that gets there info from Disney movies.

The leader of peta years ago when it looked like bluetongue might be a problem.
She said she would be extremely happy if it came in a whipped out the cattle industry in the us.
So she carried about animals but want them to die a very bad death along with all the wild life that can get it to