Politics

[Wheels]

Wheels,

The only issue I have with this statement is that you would be conceding that these "protesters" actually have a legitimate gripe which I firmly believe they do not... Peaceful or not, they are protesting the false narratives of systemic racism and systemic police brutality against people of color which the statistics clearly show not to be valid. When you are protesting a falsehood that is purely emotionally driven, you are an agitator, not a legitimate protester exercising your 1st amendment rights.

completely agree with where you are coming from, but I still believe anyone in America has the right to speak up and protest regardless of how stupid they are.

 

[Ray B]

What is stupid is the viewing of previously accepted practices through the lens of revisionist history, then condemning a long deceased person for improprieties. and what is more stupid is for the media, politicians and the masses to accept such condemnation as fact.

 

[Wheels]

What are the thoughts on here about the commutation of Roger Stone? Seems to me like Trump thinks he is going to lose the election.

@Royal27 brought up a good point. Royal says the markets think there will be a Trump victory. Otherwise there is no way it would continue the advance if it thought Biden would win and reverse the Trump tax cuts and let Antifa/Blm/Chaz run amok along with cutting LE.

I think he makes an astute observation.

 

[Saul]

@Royal27 brought up a good point. Royal says the markets think there will be a Trump victory. Otherwise there is no way it would continue the advance if it thought Biden would win and reverse the Trump tax cuts and let Antifa/Blm/Chaz run amok along with cutting LE.

I think he makes an astute observation.

While certainly possible, COVID complicates things further. If there is another spike and Trump does not get things under control before the election, then he is done. Most investors with whom I have spoken seem to agree that Biden is going to win, but the GOP will retain the Senate, effectively negating the fear of tax hikes while instilling confidence about the response to a second COVID wave. Then again, if Tesla's stock has shown us anything, it is that most investors are completely decoupled from reality right now.

 

[BSO Dave]

There is still a little revolutionary in me that says to hell with the system, burn it down. Then again, I could just be remembering how it felt when the Berlin Wall came down.

Hmmm? So, you are equating the fall of the Berlin Wall the same regard as these anarchists and domestic terrorists being granted free reign to burn cities and assault innocent citizens under the premise of a completely false narrative? Maybe you wouldn't have the same regard for this "revolutionary" movement if the mob was at your front door rather than merely watching it occur on tv or on the internet.

As I have opined on many occasions here, we need a return to civility. There is no need for revolution, the government does not need to be destroyed, we are not living under an oppressive regime. What we do need is more commonality, more common decency, and more common sense.

Although I wholeheartedly agree that a return to civility is paramount to the future of this experiment in democracy, I feel at this point, future conflict to the extent of a possible civil war, is a foregone conclusion given the current political and social atmosphere in this country. I'm going to steal a quote from @Red Leg because I believe he put it better than I ever could in regard to my personal sentiment towards those who are creating, facilitating, and perpetuating the unrest.

"Moreover, I am not sure we are "all Americans" any longer. I feel no sense of shared purpose with any ignorant child who believes that the men like Jefferson and Washington created a failed country based upon "white privilege or superiority." Instead, what we have allowed to happen is the emergence of a failed, ignorant and fundamentally uneducated generation. In no other place in the world, including anywhere in Western Europe could anyone, regardless of race or place of birth find greater opportunity than here."

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

@Royal27 brought up a good point. Royal says the markets think there will be a Trump victory. Otherwise there is no way it would continue the advance if it thought Biden would win and reverse the Trump tax cuts and let Antifa/Blm/Chaz run amok along with cutting LE.

I think he makes an astute observation.

Don't shoot the messenger here, but I've read in the last couple of days where people have speculated a Biden win wouldn't ruin the markets. They suggest the economy will be so fragile that nobody would raise taxes for a couple of years.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ent-trump-2020-07-15?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

Don't get me wrong, I think a Biden win will be a disaster. However four more years of Trump won't be much fun either.

The Durham report should be interesting and a possible game changer leading up to the election. My guess is the report won't be released until late September or early October so it will be a fresh, hot topic all the way up to election day. The classic "October Surprise."

https://www.lawfareblog.com/durham-investigation-what-we-know-and-what-it-means

 

[Hogpatrol]

And the hits just keep on comin!

"I'm going to beat Joe Biden". Joe Biden

 

[BSO Dave]

completely agree with where you are coming from, but I still believe anyone in America has the right to speak up and protest regardless of how stupid they are.

In 100% agreement until the law is broken, innocent people are hurt, and property is destroyed in doing so...

 

[Wheels]

Don't shoot the messenger here, but I've read in the last couple of days where people have speculated a Biden win wouldn't ruin the markets. They suggest the economy will be so fragile that nobody would raise taxes for a couple of years.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ent-trump-2020-07-15?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

Don't get me wrong, I think a Biden win will be a disaster. However four more years of Trump won't be much fun either.

The Durham report should be interesting and a possible game changer leading up to the election. My guess is the report won't be released until late September or early October so it will be a fresh, hot topic all the way up to election day. The classic "October Surprise."

I thought the markets were in a bubble prior to the virus. The fact they are returning to those highs with worse earnings......... If Trump gets four more years and manufacturing comes back into the country, along with a massive infrastructure bill then the economy may rock along pretty good.

Agree on the Durham report. Also think there are other USA's involved that we just haven't heard about yet that will be focusing on specific crimes that will surprise people. That will be the game changer in the election, along with the release of documents showing culpability running throughout the previous administration and the Hillary campaign.

We live in interesting times.

 

[Royal27]

Don't shoot the messenger here, but I've read in the last couple of days where people have speculated a Biden win wouldn't ruin the markets. They suggest the economy will be so fragile that nobody would raise taxes for a couple of years.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/w...ent-trump-2020-07-15?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo

Don't get me wrong, I think a Biden win will be a disaster. However four more years of Trump won't be much fun either.

The Durham report should be interesting and a possible game changer leading up to the election. My guess is the report won't be released until late September or early October so it will be a fresh, hot topic all the way up to election day. The classic "October Surprise."

https://www.lawfareblog.com/durham-investigation-what-we-know-and-what-it-means

The globalists do view Trump has a threat, and they should as he's trying to end their grip on the world and do what is best for the country, not the massive worldwide corporations.

Changes will continue under Trump, and Wall Street and the market will continue to adapt and prosper, but it doesn't mean people who have a system in place will adapt willingly, especially as they will be "losers" even if the country s a net winner.

At the end of the day though WS is cold blooded and only bets on the thing that they think will make the biggest profit for their specific goal. I have a hard time believing that "the market" really believes that Biden, Bernie, and AOC will really be better for their pocketbook than Trump is, even in the short term. I will stick with my opinion and consider the source that says "Biden will be just as good and lead to equal prosperity," as it seems it has an ulterior motive.

 

[Ray B]

The basic issue is who has the right to stuff. All political theory originates from the answer to that question. Some say it is mine because I made it. Others say it is mine because I produced the tool that you used to make it. Others say it is mine because it was stolen from one of my ancestors. Others say it is mine just because I am. The various groups ally themselves with other groups, generally along the lines of those that don't have the stuff and feel entitled to take it from those that do. This leads to people choosing which of two camps they prefer. For years the process of determining dominance has been reasonably civil however recent events show that civility has been replaced by conflict. If this trend continues and particularly if the agitators get their woman in the White House I suspect that full conflict will ensue- the only question then will be: How do you tell whom the enemy is?

 

[Saul]

Hmmm? So, you are equating the fall of the Berlin Wall the same regard as these anarchists and domestic terrorists being granted free reign to burn cities and assault innocent citizens under the premise of a completely false narrative? Maybe you wouldn't have the same regard for this "revolutionary" movement if the mob was at your front door rather than merely watching it occur on tv or on the internet.



Although I wholeheartedly agree that a return to civility is paramount to the future of this experiment in democracy, I feel at this point, future conflict to the extent of a possible civil war, is a foregone conclusion given the current political and social atmosphere in this country. I'm going to steal a quote from @Red Leg because I believe he put it better than I ever could in regard to my personal sentiment towards those who are creating, facilitating, and perpetuating the unrest.

"Moreover, I am not sure we are "all Americans" any longer. I feel no sense of shared purpose with any ignorant child who believes that the men like Jefferson and Washington created a failed country based upon "white privilege or superiority." Instead, what we have allowed to happen is the emergence of a failed, ignorant and fundamentally uneducated generation. In no other place in the world, including anywhere in Western Europe could anyone, regardless of race or place of birth find greater opportunity than here."

But of course, as soon as I learn how to use the multiquote feature, it stops working for me. Alas, that is just my luck when it comes to technology.

With regard to my statement about revolutionary thought and action. I was not very clear. What I was trying to say is that my instinct is to side with the people against the government, but I am not equating the fall of the Berlin Wall to what we see now. I am assuming that for many of these people, there is a desire to be part of a historical movement. Perhaps they are looking for their own "Berlin Wall" moment where none is too be found. One should really not hold too much against the young for being idealistic. However, there is absolutely no excuse for the violence and looting, especially in minority neighborhoods. The threat of violence does have its place in protests. The Second Amendment itself is the threat of violence against government tyranny. That is why I would have like to see these protesters peacefully marching while exercising their 2A rights. Destroying the corner store and looting homes, though, that is just beyond the pale.

I truly hope that you are wrong about future conflicts or a possible civil war, but I simply do not know anymore. I do think that most Americans are too fat and lazy and have too short of attention spans to do much more than fight on Twitter, let alone fight a civil war. It is the random acts of violence that worry me more.

I fundamentally agree with the quote from @Red Leg, especially that it is us who have failed this generation. But that does not mean that we should essentially cede from American society. We have a responsibility to this nation to ensure that it remains the land of freedom and opportunity. This means that we must continue to engage with one another, to resist the urge to see your neighbor as your enemy, and to learn how to compromise. I am not advocating for any tolerance of hooliganism, just that we need to search for common ground with those who are willing to engage peaceably.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Biden has already talked about raising capital gains tax.

The only way Wall Street is ok with Biden is that he has been in the swamp so long that the lobbyist are so embedded they know they can dictate the terms and exceptions to any tax/stimulus plan he signs off on.

 

[Brent in Az]

At this point, I am more worried about the outcome of the Senate & House elections.

Spineless Jeff Sessions, got beat in the Alabama primary by a College Football coach endorsed by Trump. He committed political suicide, for recusing himself from the Russian investigation.

 

[BSO Dave]

The Second Amendment itself is the threat of violence against government tyranny.

True enough, but take a look at who are we allowing to define the term "tyranny"?
Spoiled, brainwashed, children, who are ignorantly doing the bidding of the elitist left, and common criminals who use the false excuse of oppression as the next convenient opportunity to commit crime...?

But that does not mean that we should essentially cede from American society.

I am in no way suggesting we the people cede from American society... I am suggesting that the vast majority of Americans, who I believe are thoroughly disgusted with the direction we are headed, need to grow some collective balls, say enough is enough, and take this country back. The very few dem leaders with any semblance of common sense left are clinging in fear to the threads of their political lives. They are either becoming puppets of the radical left, or they themselves become the next meal of the mob. The Republican leaders (with the exception of Trump) are no better. They are quick to offer rhetoric, but have also failed to act at any tangible level of efficacy. It's been a shocking disappointment to witness how our elected officials on all sides have allowed this to escalate to this point. The majority needs to rise up and regain control. And, unfortunately, I don't think that can be achieved peacefully.

 

[markm]

No matter what side your on truth is not one politician is worth a hill of beans.you just have to take lesser of two evils.the people who are yelling and screaming really don't know what's in store for them if it changes their way.like him or not trump has done good for this country.

True enough, but take a look at who are we allowing to define the term "tyranny"?
Spoiled, brainwashed, children, who are ignorantly doing the bidding of the elitist left, and common criminals who use the false excuse of oppression as the next convenient opportunity to commit crime...?



I am in no way suggesting we the people cede from American society... I am suggesting that the vast majority of Americans, who I believe are thoroughly disgusted with the direction we are headed, need to grow some collective balls, say enough is enough, and take this country back. The very few dem leaders with any semblance of common sense left are clinging in fear to the threads of their political lives. They are either becoming puppets of the radical left, or they themselves become the next meal of the mob. The Republican leaders (with the exception of Trump) are no better. They are quick to offer rhetoric, but have also failed to act at any tangible level of efficacy. It's been a shocking disappointment to witness how our elected officials on all sides have allowed this to escalate to this point. The majority needs to rise up and regain control. And, unfortunately, I don't think that can be achieved peacefully.

 

[Saul]

True enough, but take a look at who are we allowing to define the term "tyranny"?
Spoiled, brainwashed, children, who are ignorantly doing the bidding of the elitist left, and common criminals who use the false excuse of oppression as the next convenient opportunity to commit crime...?

That very well may be, but it is not for you or I to decide who may exercise their Constitutional rights.

I am in no way suggesting we the people cede from American society... I am suggesting that the vast majority of Americans, who I believe are thoroughly disgusted with the direction we are headed, need to grow some collective balls, say enough is enough, and take this country back. The very few dem leaders with any semblance of common sense left are clinging in fear to the threads of their political lives. They are either becoming puppets of the radical left, or they themselves become the next meal of the mob. The Republican leaders (with the exception of Trump) are no better. They are quick to offer rhetoric, but have also failed to act at any tangible level of efficacy. It's been a shocking disappointment to witness how our elected officials on all sides have allowed this to escalate to this point. The majority needs to rise up and regain control. And, unfortunately, I don't think that can be achieved peacefully.

On this we agree. We are in critical need of a good house cleaning. I believe that the majority of Americans are fairly centrist. A small minority of extremists in both parties have managed to completely dominate the political discourse in this nation, mainly because of social media, and the political establishment of both sides has been too cowardly too stand up and say enough. In the meantime, these radicals use political purity tests to purge the party base of any dissenting voices. Speak out against trans rights and you cannot be a democrat. Speak out against Trump and you cannot be a republican.

 

[BSO Dave]

That very well may be, but it is not for you or I to decide who may exercise their Constitutional rights.

Actually, it is for me to decide... So, are we talking about exercising one's Constitutional rights or justifying violence under the false pretext of perceived tyranny?

 

[Wheels]

I would not underestimate Biden's ability to pull black votes.

What we didn't address is the percent of black votes Kanye will pull from the left, if he registers in swing states.

 

[Mort Hill]

I am assuming that for many of these people, there is a desire to be part of a historical movement. Perhaps they are looking for their own "Berlin Wall" moment where none is too be found.

That is a HUGE assumption that any one of these rioters has the faintest idea why the Berlin Wall was built in the first place , nor why tearing it down was an even more of a historical event.