Politics

[Big_Easy]

Now. Back to the discussion at hand.

BigEasy, your solution is for the top contributors to have their tax rates doubled. As if this one time act would satisfy the appetite of the takers.

I never said it would. What is your solution to the deficit problem? And no, you can't make shit up, you have to use real world numbers, and back them up with citations. I've asked repeatedly about cutting Social Security and Medicare spending, so far there have been ZERO takers on this forum. You all have big feelings about my plan, yet provide no viable plan yourselves.

Great. Let’s enact that for 2027. So in 2027 we will hand over 75% of our total income to various government entities local, state and federal.

46%, the suggestion was 46% for federal taxes. 75% is a made-up number for the top 2% of payers.

Now 2028 rolls around and the takers want more. and spend more than they take in, in 2027.
So your answer would still be raise more from taking it from those now paying 75%?

46%. No, my plan never included raising spending further. But spending increases are not merely a function of Democrats, I seem to remember Republicans all too happy to spend on their own sacred cows. Didn't Trump just ask for a $500 Billion increase in military spending? Didn't the house vote to increase it by $200 billion in ONE YEAR. Get your own house in order first before complaining about mine.

Your plan runs aground in short order.

This is not my plan, and a hypothetical you just made up.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

@Big_Easy are all men created equal?

 

[Big_Easy]

Honest answer? Because you think like a spoiled kid and you don’t realize it.

And many of you think like Baby Boomers who don't really care what happens to this country because by the time the fiscal time bomb goes off that YOUR GENERATION has created, you'll all be gone. And my generation, and my kids will have to clean up your mess. At least my family taught me to clean up my own messes and not leave them for someone else. Some of you remind me of fair-weather friends/fans, only cheering and showing up in the good times, and nowhere to be found in the bad.

You speak of acting like a child but spew nothing but schoolyard insults.

You’re very comfortable keeping government entitlements going because it’s what “the people deserve”

Stop lying, I've never said that.

but you have no reverence for duty, obligation, self sacrifice, or the morality that a person should keep what they earn through hard work.

You're the ones that would rather bankrupt the country than increase taxes on the rich by one penny. Talk to me about self sacrifice when you're all willing to give up of some of your own government welfare. No one on here has suggested cutting social security or medicare. NO ONE. Not even you. No one has suggested cutting military spending, no one has suggested cutting agriculture welfare. None of you. Sounds like all of you love gov welfare, you just can't admit it.

That’s why we think you’re a kid and a grad student without much life experience. You’ve yet to produce something so you’re fixated on taking something.

I'm fixated on saving my country from boomers who simp for billionaires at our expense.

You also think complex systems can be revolutionized easily with your superior thinking.

Once again, you just described Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE efforts. Another self-own.

That type of naive socialism is shattered through life experience and studying the human condition given enough time.

Stop lying, I've never advocated for socialism.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I never said it would. What is your solution to the deficit problem? And no, you can't make shit up, you have to use real world numbers, and back them up with citations

You literally start off saying it wont fix the problem and then tell them to not make stuff up.

46%, the suggestion was 46% for federal taxes. 75% is a made-up number for the top 2% of payers.

So in this wonderful world you speak of there is no other taxes? Just Federal Income taxes, no Medicare, no Obamacare 3.9% tax, no state taxes, no property taxes, no sales taxes.

 

[mdwest]

You are absolutely correct. I was a senior officer in a Fortune 500 company. My peers all drove expensive cars and had second homes in Arizona or Hawaii. My wife and I maintained a comfortable but modest lifestyle and lived without any debt,

When the company wanted to promote me into a role leading to the CEO’s office, I decided to get off the merry-go-round. I was 49, and regardless of age, likely the only officer who could afford to do so. It’s all about deciding to live responsibly within your means, not about how much money you make.

Similar story, although not in the Fortune 500… I’ve worked my ass off and have been blessed by being in the right place at the right time several times in my career … I started working at the senior executive level in my early 40’s, and took a CEO position before I was 50… I’m not off the merry go round yet… but.., I’m getting close…

Most of my peers drive very expensive cars… I drive a Toyota tundra… most of my peers live in 6000+ sq foot houses and have vacation homes… we have a very comfortable house (I’d guess a hundred or more members here have seen it at this point)… but it’s hardly a mansion… we do have a tiny 280sq ft cabin on some land in Colorado.. but it’s certainly nothing like a “second home”… about the only thing we spend notable amounts of money on is travel and hunting… otherwise we are very conservative with our spending… we certainly spend much less than my peers…

And I’ve had the benefit of being married to another career professional that’s been working at the lower to mid level executive level for the last 20+ years…

I’ve never once been jealous of a peers new Porsche.. or another peers new 6500 sq foot lake house… etc… if anything I’m happy thst they’re living their best life and doing what makes them happy…

I just choose a different path..

 

[Big_Easy]

That is equally true of those who have or have not held senior corporate positions.

If you are a typical example of someone who has held a senior corporate position then I think I now know why this country is doomed. Someone in a position like that should be able to debate someone without relying on cheap school yard insults or emotional based beliefs. They should be able to create a coherent, fact-based argument and present it. They should be able to identify high quality data sources, and know how to actually cite them. Something that many (perhaps all) of you have not been able to do in any debate with me on here. If you're the caliber of a senior corporate manager, I'll take your insult as a compliment.

So I am certain you have done neither of those two things. With respect to the latter - without those experiences - such as presenting a quarterly or managing P&L, I have no real interest in anyone's opinions of corporate governance, ethics, and accountability.

Perhaps that type of inbred thinking is what has caused so many problems for this country? Perhaps that's how we got to our current bastardized capitalist model that so many C-suite executives participate in. Did it ever once occur to you that your closed minded thinking is the problem?

So no insult intended- simply musing what actual life experiences you bring to this discussion.

I bring the ability to fact-check the many bat-shit conspiracy theories and nonsense rag-bait memes so many post on here that go unchallenged by almost all of you. Yet you feel the need to only call me out. Why is that?

Just a troll with access to google

One would think that someone who holds a senior corporate position would know how to use google to locate high-quality data sources and actually cite them. Rather than constantly relying on emotionally based beliefs.

But please, prove me wrong.

None of you have yet proved me wrong on any of the litany of fact bsed sources that I have cited.

 

[rookhawk]

Big-Easy-Money said:

46%, the suggestion was 46% for federal taxes. 75% is a made-up number for the top 2% of payers.

That comment above is how I can tell you’ve accomplished nothing in life so far and are absolutely regressed.

A top 1% making $1m USD a year already pays 51% in taxes, 26.1% federal, 25% State and Local. You think 75% is a made up number? It’s your number! You want 46% federal income tax and with SALT, the person is at 75% approximate taxes. That leaves your 1%-er with $250,000 to live on. That would cover two kids in college for one year each and $50k for power/water/gas/fuel/food.

You do realize the Laffer curve would kick in instantly? I sure as hell won’t do $1m in work for $250,000 in net income, I’d just go fishing, make $90k part time, and pay zero taxes.

To acquire what I have and maintain it, I eat at home 6 days a week. We eat beef twice a month. Our newest car is ten years old. I work 60 hour weeks and do my own home repair, gardening, and car maintenance. I haven’t taken a vacation in 4 years. I save 25% of my gross income. I don’t buy Starbucks or fast food. I make myself sack lunches. This is how you become a 1%er before you’re 50. Your view of the world ensures you’ll never get there in spite of having access to opportunities I could only dream of having at your age. You’ve squandered much time on envy that could have been spent on personal prosperity.

You don’t understand what effort is required to prosper or for a society to prosper, yet you think you’re entitled to redistribute that work product.

Good times have indeed made weak men.

 

[Corey0372]

In my mind there was a cultural shift in the mid 1980s. I think something changed around the time the movie “Colors” came out. The good guys were no longer the people we rooted for. The focus has shifted to finding value in gangsters and the like. Look at that culture of easy money and violence over thought and we can see the devolution of our society in general. Now the hero is lawless and unstructured.

Maybe... but the US has maintained an odd fascination with and celebration of criminals for quite some time. You can go back to the Wild West days in some ways, and look at how many people attended Bonnie and Clyde's funeral and the celebrity status they've enjoyed, after committing over a dozen cold blooded murders.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

Yes we did, we just beat the shit out of each other and went on our way.

We didnt have the mass shootings (to my knowledge). But I think fighting in the school yard, or outside of it, was a pressure release valve. Additionally we could go home, go fishing, go hunting, build something, we didnt go home and have social media to keep up the pressure.

Long story short, we didnt have less violence, we just seen an escalation of violence.

I agree with a part of what you say but I agree with Oscar. There is no comparison of fisticuffs/cowboys and Indians to the video games and movies of today, that are beyond graphic and, I believe, tremendously desensitizing. It's not even apples to oranges.

 

[PARA45]

Yes we did, we just beat the shit out of each other and went on our way.

We didnt have the mass shootings (to my knowledge). But I think fighting in the school yard, or outside of it, was a pressure release valve. Additionally we could go home, go fishing, go hunting, build something, we didnt go home and have social media to keep up the pressure.

Long story short, we didnt have less violence, we just seen an escalation of violence.

Fighting in school was life and we learned to man up and fight the bully. But after the fight we all went home, and probably became friends after the busted lip or bloody nose. Can’t do that when someone stabs or shoots you. Back then we had access to firearms because no one locked guns, but it never crossed my mind to shoot someone because I lost a fight. And, I believe kids today are num to violence probably due to all these violent video games.

 

[PARA45]

Radical Islamist plows a car into crowd at a Berlin pride event.
I bet that creates a conundrum for how the MSM media wil report it.

He was killed today by German police

 

[Tanks]

One thing that people who want to tax people more overlooks is the situation in high tax states like CA and NY. High income earners are already paying over 50% of their income in taxes. In CA, at least, the high income earners fund the state as that's where most of the revenue comes from.

Those two states also equal the income inequality of third world countries. Both also have massive budget deficits and play games with bonds and pension funds to make budget line up. It doesn't matter how much money they get as they always find new ways to spend it.

In CA they got a lot of Covid funds, a temporary surplus, and immediately set up spending programs which were not temporary and would add to future budgets.

After I had filed for divorce and moved out, my first wife went and bought a huge TV for several thousand dollars. I asked how she justified the expense seeing that she would not have my income anymore. Her response at the time: "I didn't pay for it, I charged it.". Same viewpoint the governments seem to have.

As long as governments want to spend money on a wish list of programs no amount of taxing will help.

 

[Big_Easy]

So in this wonderful world you speak of there is no other taxes? Just Federal Income taxes, no Medicare, no Obamacare 3.9% tax, no state taxes, no property taxes, no sales taxes.

If you read any of the sources I posted you would see that they mention the total SALT contribution for the top 1% is a further 10%, on average. 10% + 46% = 56%, not 75%. I didn't opine as to whether my plan was fair or just. I said that desperate times call for desperate measures. Especially since no one on here has any math based idea for how to make the problem better. Just more conspiracy theories. Did it ever occur to anyone on here that this is the reason the country is piling on debt like it's going out of fashion? Everyone spends their time arguing about nonsense, posting conspiracy theories, rage-bait memes, and the like.

Somewhere in all your minds there is a magical button that you press and the deficit just goes away like a puff of smoke in the wind. In the real world there are hard choices to be made, people who keep claiming life experiences on here would know that. I can tell that no one on here is prepared to make them regarding the budget. You all talk about fiscal responsibility and then vote for politicians that write blank checks too. None of you have agreed to any cuts to the VA, DOD, SS, Medicare, USDA...sacred cows all. But go on, tell me how I'm the problem.

 

[Brent in Az]

Some will say that bad kids come from bad families, which may be true to some extent, but not always. Bad kids can also come from good families.
Back in 1999, the infamous Pizza hut murders happened here in Tucson. One of the two young men who committed this heinous crime was the son of guy that lived a few houses up from me that I hung out with occasionally as a kid. He is now retired from the police force in San Diego I believe?
His son received 25 years on a plea deal. The other guy got multiple life sentences after the death penalty was taken off the table due to technicalities.
The pizza hut was torn down shortly after.
My ex neighbors son was released in 2024.....and yep....prison tattoos up the neck....and he tried to sneak his way into a job at the U of A. Someone I know there told me about it
Some kids are just born bad seed.

 

[Red Leg]

If you are a typical example of someone who has held a senior corporate position then I think I now know why this country is doomed. Someone in a position like that should be able to debate someone without relying on cheap school yard insults or emotional based beliefs. They should be able to create a coherent, fact-based argument and present it. They should be able to identify high quality data sources, and know how to actually cite them. Something that many (perhaps all) of you have not been able to do in any debate with me on here. If you're the caliber of a senior corporate manager, I'll take your insult as a compliment.


Perhaps that type of inbred thinking is what has caused so many problems for this country? Perhaps that's how we got to our current bastardized capitalist model that so many C-suite executives participate in. Did it ever once occur to you that your closed minded thinking is the problem?


I bring the ability to fact-check the many bat-shit conspiracy theories and nonsense rag-bait memes so many post on here that go unchallenged by almost all of you. Yet you feel the need to only call me out. Why is that?


One would think that someone who holds a senior corporate position would know how to use google to locate high-quality data sources and actually cite them. Rather than constantly relying on emotionally based beliefs.


None of you have yet proved me wrong on any of the litany of fact bsed sources that I have cited.

I assume self-reflection can be challenging, but you are the one who is responding with insults and diversions. What do I have wrong about who you are?

 

[Big_Easy]

A top 1% making $1m USD a year already pays 51% in taxes, 26.1% federal, 25% State and Local. You think 75% is a made up number? It’s your number! You want 46% federal income tax and with SALT, the person is at 75% approximate taxes.

Example:
I live in NC, so I'll use that as an example. I advocated for a 46% federal rate. The state income tax rate is 4% (scheduled to drop to 2.5% in the coming years). So 46% + 4% = 50%. Medicare tax on high earners is ~2.5%. So 50 + 2.5 = 52.5%. SS tax is 6.2% on the first $185,000 in income. So for your $1M example, 0.062 x 0.185 = 1.1% (round down to 1%). 52.5 + 1 = 53.5%.

There is no local income tax here, so the final answer is 53.5% Net-effective Federal + SALT tax rate.

That leaves your 1%-er with $250,000 to live on. That would cover two kids in college for one year each and $50k for power/water/gas/fuel/food.

NSCU costs approximately $20K for Tuition, Fees and a Room. I survived on $100 a week in college, so lets adjust for inflation and say $150. 150 x 52 = $8K, so the answer is $28K for NSCU. Even Ivy colleges are usually only 70-80K a year. 28K x 2 = $56K.

$1M income - 53.5% in taxes - 56K for college = $409,000. The answer is $409K...America thanks you for your sacrifice.

You do realize the Laffer curve would kick in instantly? I sure as hell won’t do $1m in work for $250,000 in net income, I’d just go fishing, make $90k part time, and pay zero taxes.

I'm glad you mentioned that. Two things.
1) The original Laffer Curve was set to a maximum revenue to tax rate of 50%. I am only proposing a 46% tax rate. Although maybe Laffer was referring to federal + SALT.
2) Art Laffer never mathematically proved his curve theory.

To acquire what I have and maintain it, I eat at home 6 days a week. We eat beef twice a month. Our newest car is ten years old. I work 60 hour weeks and do my own home repair, gardening, and car maintenance. I haven’t taken a vacation in 4 years. I save 25% of my gross income. I don’t buy Starbucks or fast food. I make myself sack lunches.

It sounds like my tax plan would not apply to you then.

This is how you become a 1%er before you’re 50.

My plan is an income tax, not a net worth or "wealth tax." I'm not referring to a net worth of 1%.

Your view of the world ensures you’ll never get there in spite of having access to opportunities I could only dream of having at your age. You’ve squandered much time on envy that could have been spent on personal prosperity.

Those are some bold assumptions buddy. You assume that I'm not already there...How incorrect of you all to assume that.

You don’t understand what effort is required to prosper or for a society to prosper, yet you think you’re entitled to redistribute that work product.

I never said I was entitled to redistribute your work product. Anymore than you insist on redistributing mine.

Good times have indeed made weak men.

I agree with that.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I didn't opine as to whether my plan was fair or just. I said that desperate times call for desperate measures. Especially since no one on here has any math based idea for how to make the problem better. Just more conspiracy theories. Did it ever occur to anyone on here that this is the reason the country is piling on debt like it's going out of fashion? Everyone spends their time arguing about nonsense, posting conspiracy theories, rage-bait memes, and the like

You literally make up a number, say it is opinion, then accuse everyone of not understanding basic, and accuse them of conspiracy theories and rage baiting.

How about this for a plan to start fixing things, move the social security retirement age 1 year for every 15 years. So everyone under 47 now, now 63, everyone under 32, 64.

Or pass a law that says without a balance budget, congressman dont get paid or better yet can't run for reelection.

You know both of those have in common, they don't take from anyone, and make congress do their job.

 

[Jeff505]

Each of us has the ability to resolve this problem. Short of abandoning the politics thread entirely, we can simply press the ignore button, and @Big_Easy simply disappears from our lives.

I have done that very thing. If enough members hit the ignore button on this rascal it will be as if he was never here.

 

[wesheltonj]

Example:
I live in NC, so I'll use that as an example. I advocated for a 46% federal rate. The state income tax rate is 4% (scheduled to drop to 2.5% in the coming years). So 46% + 4% = 50%. Medicare tax on high earners is ~2.5%. So 50 + 2.5 = 52.5%. SS tax is 6.2% on the first $185,000 in income. So for your $1M example, 0.062 x 0.185 = 1.1% (round down to 1%). 52.5 + 1 = 53.5%. . .

1) The original Laffer Curve was set to a maximum revenue to tax rate of 50%. I am only proposing a 46% tax rate. Although maybe Laffer was referring to federal + SALT.
2) Art Laffer never mathematically proved his curve theory. . . .

Unfortunately, your numbers only work for wage slaves. The self-employed pay 12.4 % SS tax. And you left off Medicare tax of 2.9% no income limit.

Be glad, the Laffer curve has never been fully tested. 100% results in no income for the federal government.

What you fail to understand, is the wealthy can transfer their wealth to a tax haven using the gift tax exclusion and transfer the business and the business bills from the tax haven. The US may tax you worldwide, but good luck collecting.

 

[Brent in Az]

One of the many ugly issues with these data centers is the tremendous amount of cooling water needed.
We are are already experiencing potential water shortages ( Particularly California) on the other side of the Colorado river that we share with
Tremendous electric and water demands for data centers