Politics

[Tundra Tiger]

Sends chills down my spine thinking about any of the people behind the Resolute Desk. AOC should be behind a bar. Harris, in a bar. Mayor Pete, working for the TSA. Newsome, in a grease pit.

"Harris, in a bar."



Well played sir. I laughed out loud.

 

[Big_Easy]

Wrong again. The loosening of lending regulations actually started under the Carter administration. To fight racial inequality and red lining

Then why didn't the housing crisis happen during the Carter Admin? Or the Reagan Admin? or G HW Bush? Or Clinton? Did you even bother reading any of my fact based sources? Probably not. Loosening some lending regulations does not automatically lead to a housing crisis. It's the accumulation to too much deregulation over time that did it. By either the Republicans or the Democrats.

Most internet searches done now will skip a crucial step in the cause of the mortgage crisis and jump right to the final death blow of lenders. Bundling and selling off the junk as fast as they could. Blaming the lenders.

Yeah, it's okay to blame lenders that were instrumental in causing a housing crisis. No one forced them to lie on documents, no one forced them to hand out no-doc loans, or loan out mortgages for third and fourth spec homes. Again, the concentration of foreclosures in only a few states demonstrates that it was limited to certain bad actors. There wasn't a nationwide foreclosure crisis. There was a crisis that happened in a few states that caused a financial meltdown that affected us all. So much for the party of personal responsibility.

Bigeasy. Search back around 1992 if I remember correctly. Who was forcing Freddie and Fannie to loosen lending regulations.

Was Barney Frank president in 1992 and I missed it? Again, I already admitted that reducing requirements can increase risk, it was a minor contributor. That doesn't automatically equal a housing crisis. The Republicans were pushing deregulation for decades, just because Clinton agreed to sign some bills, doesn't negate the Republicans culpability in the matter.

You fall victim to liberal skewed Internet searches. Google is notorious for glossing over liberal failings and burying conservative truths.

You fall victim to the "correlation does not imply causation" logical fallacy. A mathematically defensible cause and effect relationship is different than simply quoting someone. That's why it's important to cite math-based sources, and cite them.

 

[Big_Easy]

I tested Google and AI gave me a more accurate response than I expected.

At the bottom of the text below. You see Barney Franks defense is aligned exactly with yours BigEasy. He skips completely over that the fact he and his Democrat cronies caused the entire crisis and he blames the lenders for trying to save their companies. That he didn’t start the fire in the 90s. It was the lenders fault for trying to get rid of the sack of sh!! Barney forced them to hold.


View attachment 779044

Re-read that last bullet point again, you answered your own question.

 

[RLD]

I

l’ll agree we are definitely a mixed economy as is every nation to some degree. And both philosophies have created atrocious standards at one time. Adam smiths world was atrocious and the world that Marx vision created in China or Russia I would argue was many degrees worse just from the sheer number of confinement and death caused by the government.

My favorite president was Theodore Roosevelt and he was known for two major things above all else… trust busting and preserving land. There are even stories of him coming back from Africa and allegedly threading Tafts life for selling the country out to big business. His hatred for what Taft had done was the reason he ran the bull moose party and unfortunately allowed possibly the most destructive president Woodrow Wilson to win and become president.
The thing is every nation that pushes a Marxist view has failed and always results in anguish of the people that live there. But also none are able to even exist if the nation didn’t already have a large degree of wealth or resources to begin with. With the exception of a few Scandinavian countries it’s interesting to study how bad the people had to think it had gotten to want to adopt or overthrow the existing regime in the first place to attempt communism.

Even Milton Friedman said toward the end of his life that there had to be some government control because some companies will just keep taking. I believe in a free market I’m more libertarian than anything but I also have never created a multibillion dollar corporation and I’m content living in peace and not trying to make every dollar or control every person or country. I think most business owners would align with my life values that money is a tool not the end all.
But when I see Microsoft, Amazon,meta firing American workers and rehiring h1 visa workers to save money it brings back my thoughts of teddy Roosevelt that some companies can’t be left to do as they want because they will help build a nation but turn right back around and drain it at the cost of the people of the nation.

Teddy was a great President and people in today's hyper-partisan culture are very quick to forget how some of the great figures in history really thought about how to build a strong and just country, Teddy amongst them.

There is also a pretty good argument that preserving land for the public good, ie most hunters is a socialist approach, rather than selling the land to the highest bidder who will make the most money with it.

A guy like Churchill is rightly lionized by most, but he is close to being the father of the welfare state in the English speaking world. His net and ladder analogy and call for universal insurance are seemingly forgotten these days no matter how eloquent and logical they may have been.

 

[Big_Easy]

You’re missing the point. All of the innovations that have increased life expectancy, like insulin, antibiotics, vaccines, etc,. Etc., were developed by free-market capitalism.

No, they aren't. There are plenty of inventions that have benefited humanity and increased life expectancy that were funded/developed by the government. I can find you a list if you'd like. Presently the United States Federal Government is the single largest funder of new biomedical research on earth. Almost 1/5 of the global total is just our tax dollars.

The men and corporations that created these wonders did so to make a profit. Government’s role was to provide the stability and basic support, like roads, infrastructure, public education and the like.

Which still contributed to their development.

I’ll tell you why we have a socialism hate fetish.

At least you can admit it.

Not the enlightened socialist utopias that you’re such a fan of.

I'm not a fan of any "socialist utopias," I've never once supported Socialism, or any other "ism" on this forum, or anywhere else. Stop just making shit up.

It must be aggravating to fans of socialism that they can’t cite a single example of a socialist scheme that has provided comparable results to free market capitalism.

I wouldn't know as I am not a fan of socialism. If I meet one, I will ask them for you.

Now, before you prattle on about how wonderful things are in Sweden, Norway, Belgium and the like, please understand that every one of these is a capitalist system with more expansive social programs than we have. They are not socialist systems.

Yes I agree, some of these are based on the Nordic Model. Which includes social democratic corporatism.

 

[Altitude sickness]

 

[RLD]

It's kinda weird dropping an hour video in during a discussion about a subject.

I like to think of chatting in an internet forum like chatting with my buddies in a bar, jawing around some subject matter.

I can't imagine one of them saying, "hold your beer, I'm going to explain my point with an hour long lecture now."

If you have watched it, and think it is valuable, I would like summarizing it's best points is far better than dropping in a hour long video the vast majority of people won't make time to watch.

Have you watched the video or the whole series yourself? It's like a nine hour series isn't it?

 

[Brent in Az]

Sends chills down my spine thinking about any of the people behind the Resolute Desk. AOC should be behind a bar. Harris, in a bar. Mayor Pete, working for the TSA. Newsome, in a grease pit.

Those 5 are the very face of Democrat Dystopia

 

[Altitude sickness]

RLD
I am a subscriber to the Peterson Academy. I watch many topics. I took the financial history course recently,which was fascinating.

It’s a link. You have to make the decision to open it.

 

[Newboomer]

"Harris, in a bar."



Well played sir. I laughed out loud.

Working girl in her habitat?

 

[Brent in Az]

Working girl in her habitat?

They don't call her "knee pads Harris" for nothing

 

[VertigoBE]

Now, before you prattle on about how wonderful things are in Sweden, Norway, Belgium and the like, please understand that every one of these is a capitalist system with more expansive social programs than we have. They are not socialist systems.

I must say I’m starting to have doubts about my home country of Belgium…

 

[RLD]

RLD
I am a subscriber to the Peterson Academy. I watch many topics. I took the financial history course recently,which was fascinating.

It’s a link. You have to make the decision to open it.

Have you watched the 9 hours of this topic?

Care to tell us the high points? Or why it is a good watch?

 

[Altitude sickness]

I have watched 8-10 different topics and hours inside several topics. They are actually courses with tests.

I have not taken this particular whole course yet. It has 5 lectures with quizzes and a final.

High points are Marxism and Communism are the destroyer of prosperous, and free people. And ALWAYS ends with the suffering of those that it was intended to help.

Peterson Academy | How to Think, Not What to Think.

Education devoid of ideology. Affordable to all, taught by the best.

petersonacademy.com

 

[Killingtime]

P

I must say I’m starting to have doubts about my home country of Belgium…

View attachment 779139

Portugal taxes shock me for how high they are. I know several people who retired there and they live a nice upper middle class American lifestyle while not making anywhere near the money.

The other one is cypress there is a powerlifter from Kentucky that married a women from there before the recession and moved to cypress and talked about how the goverment wouldn’t let you monetize YouTube (not sure if that’s changed) but how he sometimes could barely afford to feed his kids let alone have enough food to maintain a 330lb plus frame. If I recall they the island was split between Greeks and Turks I’m not sure how the economics work but it’s crazy that they let them keep so much of the money. I don’t think when the akel leader was in charge during the recession it was like that. Interesting how much countries can change in a decade with different leadership

 

[Big_Easy]

The post I had after the one you mentioned sited that. I was shocked at how much premiums had risen from the 90’s-2010

While it does appear that the ACA failed to control price increases, it had many other benefits that people often forget. One of which was the healthcare exchanges; they demonstrated that at least 6-7 companies needed to be present, selling the same product, to the same consumer for prices to be restrained. Any less than that and the costs increased substantially. For all these self-identified pro-Capitalist anti-Socialist hate fetishists on here, hopefully you are anti-monopoly too. As monopolies are inherently anti-capitalist.

The Democrats said repeatedly that there were updates and fixes that needed to be made to the ACA. However, the Republicans were only ever interested in repealing it, dozens of times. We're all still waiting for Trump's bill to repeal and replace the ACA. Remember how he said it was going to be better, cheaper, and everyone would be covered?

 

[Killingtime]

While it does appear that the ACA failed to control price increases, it had many other benefits that people often forget. One of which was the healthcare exchanges; they demonstrated that at least 6-7 companies needed to be present, selling the same product, to the same consumer for prices to be restrained. Any less than that and the costs increased substantially. For all these self-identified pro-Capitalist anti-Socialist hate fetishists on here, hopefully you are anti-monopoly too. As monopolies are inherently anti-capitalist.

The Democrats said repeatedly that there were updates and fixes that needed to be made to the ACA. However, the Republicans were only ever interested in repealing it, dozens of times. We're all still waiting for Trump's bill to repeal and replace the ACA. Remember how he said it was going to be better, cheaper, and everyone would be covered?

Yes I’m anti monopoly because that is also anti free market. It was shown during the Rockefeller era the Carnegie built his company to a certain size then he would cut steel prices so low that smaller firms couldn’t compete.. he’d bankrupt them, buy them out for Pennie’s then raise prices till he had a big enough reserve to do it to the next company. Like I’ve said before I understand no system is perfect because humans are not perfect. With that being said I still believe that capitalism as made the most improvements to human life in the world even in China it was the addition of capitalism that helped make the nation wealthy and brought up the biggest percentage of people in recorded history out of poverty.
I like a gentleman named nassim taleb and own his concerto series. He talks about how globalization ruins a society because you remove the soul and purpose of a person. I agree. It’s nice to say I can by a tv for cheap or a any number of useless items but all of the things that really matter continue to cost more then wages move up and the truth is only a small percentage of the overall population can run a successful business. So you need entrepreneurs to create and the incentive for most of them is money or fame depending on the business discipline. So I wouldn’t want to impede that to much.
When a company grows big regardless of size that is not a problem..the problem is when individuals buy political power to change rules. When they destroy competition not through merit but underhanded tactics that weaken competition long term and distort markets. Or when they offshore all production at the cost of the population and call it a free market. That is one reason why you see a rise in communist viewpoints. And that will continue to happen until someone does something about it. But I personally believe no politician really cares so I see the future being not great.

I hedge my kids future with teaching them a trade and having them graduate with a degree when they graduate highschool. They will be bilingual and be pro entrepreneurial. That way no matter what happens if the economy’s of the world exist they can get a job or create a business and live in any nation they want. The only other benefit I can offer them is ensuring if they choose further education or need it based on market demands they will not have to pay for it because I covered it. So hopefully I can give them the gift of being skilled, educated, and debt free.

 

[Killingtime]

While it does appear that the ACA failed to control price increases, it had many other benefits that people often forget. One of which was the healthcare exchanges; they demonstrated that at least 6-7 companies needed to be present, selling the same product, to the same consumer for prices to be restrained. Any less than that and the costs increased substantially. For all these self-identified pro-Capitalist anti-Socialist hate fetishists on here, hopefully you are anti-monopoly too. As monopolies are inherently anti-capitalist.

The Democrats said repeatedly that there were updates and fixes that needed to be made to the ACA. However, the Republicans were only ever interested in repealing it, dozens of times. We're all still waiting for Trump's bill to repeal and replace the ACA. Remember how he said it was going to be better, cheaper, and everyone would be covered?

Also am I wrong didn’t the ACA result in less competition in the market? I think I read it initially increase but then decreased competition?

 

[Doug3006]

No, they aren't. There are plenty of inventions that have benefited humanity and increased life expectancy that were funded/developed by the government. I can find you a list if you'd like. Presently the United States Federal Government is the single largest funder of new biomedical research on earth. Almost 1/5 of the global total is just our tax dollars.


Which still contributed to their development.


At least you can admit it.


I'm not a fan of any "socialist utopias," I've never once supported Socialism, or any other "ism" on this forum, or anywhere else. Stop just making shit up.


I wouldn't know as I am not a fan of socialism. If I meet one, I will ask them for you.


Yes I agree, some of these are based on the Nordic Model. Which includes social democratic corporatism.

Then what ARE you advocating?

 

[Big_Easy]

Then what ARE you advocating?

Something closer to the Nordic Model. I’ve already mentioned many things previously, but a quick summary would be:

1.Being fiscally responsible for starters. A $2 Trillion annual budget deficit (and 39 trillion in debt) will eventually bankrupt the country. Contrary to popular beliefs, at some point the music stops, and we’ll be left without a chair. Only two options, cut spending or increase taxes. I’ve suggested several solutions on here, all of which were deemed unacceptable. God forbid rich people pay any more taxes. There is no viable pathway to cut spending. I’ve already demonstrated that the twin scared cows on here of mandatory spending and Military Industrial Complex spending cannot be touched. That leaves us with perpetual deficits. The math simply doesn’t work. Iran doesn’t have to nuke us; we’re financially destroying ourselves right now. All they have to do is wait us out.

2.Increase taxes on the rich. This solves the super majority (but not all) of problem #1 above.

3.Make shareholder value theory illegal in America. Almost every economic f@ck-up in the last 50 years in this country can be traced back to this concept. Outsourcing jobs, decimated manufacturing base, the importation of illegal immigrant labor, stagnate wages, massive income inequality, and every problem that stems from these. Publicly traded corporations know no patriotism. Shareholder value theory doesn’t allow for it. They don’t care about this country, our communities, or our people. They only care about their 10-Ks and quarterly earnings statements. We are sacrificing long-term viability for short-term pleasure. No amount of tariffs and deportations will ever truly make a difference as long as shareholder value theory is our country’s guiding light.

4.For a political party that claims to be pro-family, Republicans sure as sh!t don’t act like it. Republicans are against any mandates for; paid parental leave, increasing the minimum wage, sick leave, vacation leave, organized labor; there’s no reason the richest country in the world can’t mandate large corporation to offer paid leave for new parents. It would be a rounding error on their balance sheet. Republicans want to know why our birth rate is too low? It’s because kids are very expensive, and our wages haven’t even kept up with inflation. How many of you were just talking up the great idea of “Trump Accounts” on here, but yet congressional Republicans voted against Biden’s expanded child tax credit. Try achieving any decent GDP growth with a declining population.

5.Collective bargaining/Unions/PLAs/etc. Stop being so anti-worker rights.

6.Stop being so anti-environment and pro-pollution. Corporations are not going to do the right thing. Neither are people, that’s why we have laws and a police force. Not polluting costs money, shareholder value theory doesn’t like that. It’s a lot easier for say, Chemours corporation to dump GenX forever chemicals in the Cape Fear River for 50 years (and not tell us) and pollute the drinking water of all of Wilmington, NC; then it is to properly dispose of that shit. Accept that regulations are needed. Regulations are not always bad, Government does not always = bad, private enterprise does not always = good. There’s a reason why we have the EPA, the Cuyahoga River caught on fire 17 times. Or as @Altitude sickness post put it, there’s a reason why airplanes don’t have square windows anymore, we tried it, it was bad, and people died.

7.Roll back GW Bush’s disastrous bankruptcy law. One reason we have a student debt crisis is the inability to discharge such debt. Outlaw debtor’s prisons, and slavery.

8.Get billionaires and corporations out of politics. Money is not free speech, and corporations are not people.

9.Get the right-wingers out of people’s private lives.

All of this can be achieved quite easily and affordably. There are no new budget-busting federal government programs in my list. Sorry Private Equity, I guess you won’t be meeting your annual target IRR of 20%+. Sorry baby boomers, I guess your 401K won’t be increasing at a rate of 15% a year anymore. Single-digit stock-market growth for a while people.