Politics

[jeanes]

@mdwest, Dave you seem to be a troll magnet today. Non illegitmus carborundum

 

[mdwest]

My reply was with regards to someone born decades ago, not today:

Baptismal/Religious records….UNCLE HAS NONE OF THESE, many ppl don’t.

Old Census Records….He is currently pursuing this pathway.

Hospital/Doctors Records….Does not have these either as the hospital has been gone for decades.

DS10 - Affidavit of Birth: A notarized statement from anyone that was present at the time of birth….All these people are dead.

Delayed Birth Certificate: Each state has a process for creating birth certificates for people that were born without them being issued…Yes but a new certificate is not guaranteed.

Social Security Administration: SSA records can be used to confirm US birth… He tried this method as he is currently receiving SS, but it takes you in an endless red tape loop.

My point is still valid. Any of the above methods get you to a new birth certificate, which is then the basis for you citizenship, passport, real id, etc. The process is not easy, it is time consuming, and costs money. Its not about woman or minorities, its about poor people. Some people are poor enough where a few hundred dollars is an insurmountable amount of money.

How is pursuing the federal governments census records costing him money?.. thats a free service..

No doubt the SSA is a pain in the ass and endless red tape.. but if he is receiving SS, then that is his path.. Thats also not going to cost anything.. But proof that SSA is paying out should be more than enough for the state to issue a real ID (depending on the state he lives in)..

There are TONS of pro-bono attorneys out there that charge people $0.00 for legal services for low income people... I can think of multiple sources off the top of my head in both TX and Virginia that would take his case... thats something he should look into in whatever state he is in...

If he is getting SSA and he has been in an census.. this isnt that hard of a case for a pro bono attorney to pursue for him..

 

[Big_Easy]

Doesn't everybody hate the Amish?

No, thats the mennonites, they are the fake amish.

 

[mdwest]

Having a Social Security# is not proof of citizenship, anyone coming here legally on a H2A work Visa has to get one. At the end of their yearly contract they are given a tax form to fill out, none of my workers ever do, it’s totally voluntary evidently as none of them have been audited in the last 25 years.

There is a huge difference in a H2A Visa SSN and a US Citizens..

The H2A is issued with a "Valid Only for Working with DHS Authorization" note.. it does not authorize them to obtain a US passport, DL, etc..etc..

A US Citizens SSN opens the doors to obtain proof of citizenship.. but is not proof of citizenship in and of itself..

 

[Betterinthebush]

because they dont participate in society to the degree that other people do... so they arent buying guns, booze, flying on planes, driving cars, buying cigarettes, etc...

Not trying to argue, but, the Amish differ from one “order” to the next. The rules of the order an individual family live under is dictated by the community “bishops”.

I just moved from an area where there were two separate communities (land adjacent) that had completely different interpretations of plain conduct. Both had guns(lots of guns), one could use tobacco in any form the other could not, one could have a beer, the other could not, one voted the other did not.

We used to call them the Shiite and Sunni orders to keep them separate if doing business with them.

 

[mdwest]

No, thats the mennonites, they are the fake amish.

I dunno.. the Mennonites that live out near Millington TN grow some of the best fresh vegetables and make some of the best fresh apple juice on the planet...

I love those Mennonites!

 

[Big_Easy]

so lets ask you a third time since you find it convienient enough to ignore the first 2 requests..

you dispute the numbers...

but you provide no numbers that say otherwise.. offer no evidence of no other truth.. offer no evidence of no other fact.. .

so.. wheres your source?

Ive already told you where I got my numbers... you just didnt like the answer...

And.. if youre assuming MAGA you are far more of a blithering idiot than suspected... or unable to read...

How about you do a little research... Im pretty far from a hard right winger.. and on a personal level dont care much for Trump at all.. and have made that clear on more than a few occasions...

Im much more of a libertarian than anything else in terms of platform beliefs... but.. the libertarian party cant seem to put anyone on the ballot that isnt focused on weed or isnt a loon... so.. they rarely get a vote from me..

Here's your proof. From a right-wing source no less.

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map is an interactive tool providing a sampling of proven instances of election fraud across the U.S. From @HeritageDataviz

electionfraud.heritage.org

…99 illegal aliens voting since 1982, less than 3 per year. Im pretty sure than more than 3 Americans per year will be prevented from voting if the SAVE act passes. Its a made-up non issue. A solution in search of a probelm.

 

[mdwest]

Not trying to argue, but, the Amish differ from one “order” to the next. The rules of the order an individual family live under is dictated by the community “bishops”.

I just moved from an area where there were two separate communities (land adjacent) that had completely different interpretations of plain conduct. Both had guns(lots of guns), one could use tobacco in any form the other could not, one could have a beer, the other could not, one voted the other did not.

We used to call them the Shiite and Sunni orders to keep them separate if doing business with them.

Absolutely true.. and I agree..

For example.. the Amish I mentioned earlier in Colorado.. they use digital cash registers, get onto the web to do e-commerce with their businesses, had electric lights in their offices where they do business with the non-amish, etc.. they are a whole lot looser with tech than the Amish I used to see in Ethridge TN that absolutely refused to touch anything that relied on electricity, were much more resistant to any types of medical treatments, etc..

Similar in basic beliefs.. but very different in how they lived out their lives under those beliefs..

 

[mdwest]

Here's your proof. From a right-wing source no less.

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map

The Heritage Foundation's Election Fraud Map is an interactive tool providing a sampling of proven instances of election fraud across the U.S. From @HeritageDataviz

electionfraud.heritage.org

…99 illegal aliens voting since 1982, less than 3 per year. Im pretty sure than more than 3 Americans per year will be prevented from voting if the SAVE act passes. Its a made-up non issue. A solution in search of a probelm.

What does election fraud have to do with the numbers you questioned?

The numbers you questioned were related to the dollars spent by the last administration on illegal immigrant housing, meals, and medical support..

Im also not seeing where youre coming up with 99 illegal aliens voting.. the link you provided shows 1620 cases of fraud of varying types brought to the courts..

It doesnt provide any statistical data related to how many illegals actually voted or are suspected of voting, or how, or why..

 

[mdwest]

@mdwest, Dave you seem to be a troll magnet today. Non illegitmus carborundum

I prefer "Carpe Dick-Tum" (i.e. Seize "This")

 

[mdwest]

I am a lifelong and active member of the Canadian and Ontario conservative parties.

But some of our friends down south seem to think that MAGA is a conservative movement (it is not) and that the only version of "conservatism" is American conservatism (it is not).

American conservatism overall leans further right than most European and even other Western Hemisphere conservatism.. I would agree with you that its not the only version of the word...

And I also agree that MAGA, while largely made up of very far right conservatives isnt really about conservativism at all.. it is its own thing..

Trump even acknowledges this.. he often points out that certain republicans and conservatives are not MAGA..

MAGA is built on the ideals that the US has declined because of foreign influence, globalization, immigration, and cultural shifts..

So any "conservative" (US or otherwise) that isnt overtly opposed to those 4 things isnt MAGA..

Using myself as an example.. I would agree that the US has had a culture shift that has been extremely damaging and I think its time to push back against that shift and return to some sense of normalcy.. the fringe minorities (social, not racial) shouldnt be dictating outcomes for the majority..

I also think immigration has gotten out of control in the US... we will always need immigration.. but immigration has to be controlled and measured for a number of reasons (financial, cultural, security, etc etc)...

But I dont fully buy into the MAGA side of things on globalization or foreign influence..

I do think we have allowed foreign governments to influence the US inappropriately in some ways... but I dont think we should ignore the fact that the US absolutely uses brute force economically, militarily, etc to influence other governments as well.. and we frankly do it to others a whole lot more than others do it to us..

And, while I dont like the concept of globalism.. I dont completely reject it either.. I think we need to find a balance.. .

So... I will never been seen as "MAGA".. although I consider myself to be very conservative... conservative honestly to the point that I really dont like a lot of whats going on in the Republican party.. not just on the MAGA side.. but in general..

I dont like big government.. I dont like government intrusion in the area of civil liberties.. I dont like excessive or wasteful spending.. I dont like carrying huge national debt.. .I dont like a political class (R or D or otherwise) that screams no one is above the law, while demonstrating daily that they only mean it when it applies to anyone other than themselves...

 

[Big_Easy]

How is pursuing the federal governments census records costing him money?.. thats a free service..

No doubt the SSA is a pain in the ass and endless red tape.. but if he is receiving SS, then that is his path.. Thats also not going to cost anything.. But proof that SSA is paying out should be more than enough for the state to issue a real ID (depending on the state he lives in)..

There are TONS of pro-bono attorneys out there that charge people $0.00 for legal services for low income people... I can think of multiple sources off the top of my head in both TX and Virginia that would take his case... thats something he should look into in whatever state he is in...

If he is getting SSA and he has been in an census.. this isnt that hard of a case for a pro bono attorney to pursue for him..

More lies. Form BC-600 clearly states the cost to search a census record as $65, plus $10 for full schedule, plus $20 for expedited service if requested, and thats assuming your name and DOB is actually in the records.

 

[Big_Easy]

How is pursuing the federal governments census records costing him money?.. thats a free service..

No doubt the SSA is a pain in the ass and endless red tape.. but if he is receiving SS, then that is his path.. Thats also not going to cost anything.. But proof that SSA is paying out should be more than enough for the state to issue a real ID (depending on the state he lives in)..

There are TONS of pro-bono attorneys out there that charge people $0.00 for legal services for low income people... I can think of multiple sources off the top of my head in both TX and Virginia that would take his case... thats something he should look into in whatever state he is in...

If he is getting SSA and he has been in an census.. this isnt that hard of a case for a pro bono attorney to pursue for him..

Besides, the worst part about the SAVE act isn't the ID req. its the purging of voter roles, and the federalizing of elections that are the states responsibilities.

 

[mdwest]

again... more stupidity and ignorance..

did you bother to read the piece about pro-bono legal assistance?

or.. did you bother to actually do any research other than try to find something that meets your personal agenda rather than tell the truth?

there is a 72 year census rule.. any census record more than 72 years old is released to the public record and can be searched by anyone for free.. If your family member was born in 1955, hes either 70 or 71... theres not much more of a wait before records related to him will be in the public record..

Familysearch.org will provide census records for free..

you can access census records through the national archives for free (NARA): https://www.archives.gov/research/census/about

Granted Family Search and NARA are limited...

but again, pro bono legal is out there.. sounds like neither he nor you have bothered trying..

the BC 600 isnt the only way to skin the cat.. but... if youre going to choose to be lazy and ignorant in an attempt to prove an invalid point.. thats your cross to bear..

 

[Big_Easy]

What does election fraud have to do with the numbers you questioned?

The numbers you questioned were related to the dollars spent by the last administration on illegal immigrant housing, meals, and medical support..

Im also not seeing where youre coming up with 99 illegal aliens voting.. the link you provided shows 1620 cases of fraud of varying types brought to the courts..

It doesnt provide any statistical data related to how many illegals actually voted or are suspected of voting, or how, or why..

You have to search by fraud category (ineligible voter), then sub-category (alien)….99 total illegals voted.


…Ok, $0, we've spent $0 on illegal aliens. See how easy it is to make up numbers, just like you did, now prove me wrong and cite your sources. Just like you asked me to do.

 

[mdwest]

Besides, the worst part about the SAVE act isn't the ID req. its the purging of voter roles, and the federalizing of elections that are the states responsibilities.

The ID was the part of SAVE you wanted to argue...

Now you want to move the goal posts and argue something different..

The SAVE act does not federalize elections.. what it does do is add federal requirements that states, who continue to have election administration responsibility that have to be executed..

SAVE does in fact cause a purge of voter rolls.. but it requires that to happen in a very specific way.. states are required to continuously monitor, identify, and remove any non US Citizen from its rolls... it doesnt blanket remove anyone.. but what it does do is mandate a verification system that would cause removals.. Im not too sure many people other than you would argue that its a bad thing for non US Citizens to be removed from the voter rolls..

 

[Big_Easy]

again... more stupidity and ignorance..

did you bother to read the piece about pro-bono legal assistance?

or.. did you bother to actually do any research other than try to find something that meets your personal agenda rather than tell the truth?

there is a 72 year census rule.. any census record more than 72 years old is released to the public record and can be searched by anyone for free.. If your family member was born in 1955, hes either 70 or 71... theres not much more of a wait before records related to him will be in the public record..

Familysearch.org will provide census records for free..

you can access census records through the national archives for free (NARA): https://www.archives.gov/research/census/about

Granted Family Search and NARA are limited...

but again, pro bono legal is out there.. sounds like neither he nor you have bothered trying..

the BC 600 isnt the only way to skin the cat.. but... if youre going to choose to be lazy and ignorant in an attempt to prove an invalid point.. thats your cross to bear..

Census records from 1960 wont be released until 2032 due to the 72 year rule. But please go on about ignorance again? More insults, just like a typical maga. How does that flavor-aid taste?

 

[RLD]

No, thats the mennonites, they are the fake amish.

I love the Mennonites. They let me hunt their farms for turkey.

And don't get me started on their baking!

 

[mdwest]

You have to search by fraud category (ineligible voter), then sub-category (alien)….99 total illegals voted.


…Ok, $0, we've spent $0 on illegal aliens. See how easy it is to make up numbers, just like you did, now prove me wrong and cite your sources. Just like you asked me to do.

Once again full of bullshit.. cant substantiate your position.. so you just cry and point...

but lets see...

heres a report from the US Congressional Budget Office... $16.2B in Medicaid spending on illegals..

https://budget.house.gov/press-rele...pen-border-czar-harris?utm_source=copilot.com

FAIR reports $150-$182B on cash, welfare, and tax credits to illegals..

https://factually.co/fact-checks/finance/2024-spending-impacts-illegal-immigration-education-healthcare-policing-welfare-5aeadb?utm_source=copilot.com

Heres congress funding $650M for housing for illegals... transferring the money from DHS...

Shelter and Services Program (SSP) FY2024 Funding

www.everycrsreport.com

shall we continue?

 

[mdwest]

Census records from 1960 wont be released until 2032 due to the 72 year rule. But please go on about ignorance again? More insults, just like a typical maga. How does that flavor-aid taste?

once again ignoring the obvious because it doesnt satisfy your liberal bias..

call the lawyer... there is plenty of pro-bono representation out there.. largely from liberal attorneys that want to make sure everyone gets on or stays on the voter rolls..

regarding MAGA.. you again prove ignorance.. of both MAGA, and myself if you think they are the same...

but.. I'd expect that out of a liberal with bias I suppose.. lol...