Politics

[roverandbrew]

I was aware they were there but I was not aware they were there in enough numbers to do real counter-insurgency work. I would love to know more about the details.

I actually got optimistic about the Nigeria situation in the mid 2010's when the remnants of Executive Outcomes were reported to be doing COIN in Nigeria, but whatever the truth of that the situation has not gotten better. But if I had a dollar or every conflict that Eeben Barlow and his lads were reported to be involved in I would be retired by now.

I have two Nigerian lawyers who work for me at the moment, and they tell me that there is a lot of information pointing to the fact that the current regime is not particularly motivated to deal with Islamist problem.

Numbers are less relevant than authorities, permissions, and financial backing in COIN. If the U.S. cared, they would allow the boys to do work.

Eeben Barlow's reputation is based off a different time. He is less relevant now than people seem to think.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

Besides actually saving the world from nuclear war destruction, Kennedy was actually a wartime hero who served his country with distinction. Trump was a wartime coward who dodged serving his country any way he could. I forgot to add that to his list of distinguished accomplishments. Another reason I am disgusted with his name being slapped above Kennedy's on that building.

 

[Betterinthebush]

I have two Nigerian lawyers who work for me at the moment, and they tell me that there is a lot of information pointing to the fact that the current regime is not particularly motivated to deal with Islamist problem.

Would either of them also just happen to be Nigerian royalty?

Just kidding RLD. I couldn’t resist. The door was left wide open for me to walk through.

 

[farmer_john]

Besides actually saving the world from nuclear war destruction, Kennedy was actually a wartime hero who served his country with distinction. Trump was a wartime coward who dodged serving his country any way he could. I forgot to add that to his list of distinguished accomplishments. Another reason I am disgusted with his name being slapped above Kennedy's on that building.

I think both sides of the isle have sold America. Not sure how dogpiling one guy or two solves the problem.

 

[RLD]

Would either of them also just happen to be Nigerian royalty?

Just kidding RLD. I couldn’t resist. The door was left wide open for me to walk through.

All good man! They both have great senses of humour and would have gotten a chuckle out of that.

 

[RLD]

Numbers are less relevant than authorities, permissions, and financial backing in COIN. If the U.S. cared, they would allow the boys to do work.

Eeben Barlow's reputation is based off a different time. He is less relevant now than people seem to think.

I agree with you to a large degree. But I think numbers, presence and infrastructure are all important in creating a gap between the local population and the insurgents. I always remember what Mao said about peasants being the sea and revolutionaries being the fish. You need to get those fish out of water.

 

[roverandbrew]

I agree with you to a large degree. But I think numbers, presence and infrastructure are all important in creating a gap between the local population and the insurgents. I always remember what Mao said about peasants being the sea and revolutionaries being the fish. You need to get those fish out of water.

Plan Colombia started off pretty small and had a very significant impact on stability in the country because the permissions and money existed.

 

[farmer_john]

I agree with you to a large degree. But I think numbers, presence and infrastructure are all important in creating a gap between the local population and the insurgents. I always remember what Mao said about peasants being the sea and revolutionaries being the fish. You need to get those fish out of water.

The biggest issue in that part of the world isnt really numbers or infrastructure or even permissions.
Its the fact the local nationals dont stick around for the fight. The us forces might lead and train 5x there number but as soon as they take contact the local troops dissapear. Leaving the us forces generally doing it mostly on their own.

 

[roverandbrew]

The biggest issue in that part of the world isnt really numbers or infrastructure or even permissions.
Its the fact the local nationals dont stick around for the fight. The us forces might lead and train 5x there number but as soon as they take contact the local troops dissapear. Leaving the us forces generally doing it mostly on their own.

Yes...But its way more complicated than that.

Train Advise Assist, Building partner capacity is way more complicated than throwing together a 90 Light Infantry POI then telling them to get after it. Of course they often do not stick around..they have no MEDVAC capability, Leadership is generally incompetent and never showed up to training, no ECAS let alone dedicated CAS, and they get called out for war crimes more often than not.

Its also common to see many senior officers end up dying tragic deaths after their popularity rises beyond that of the president after liberating a part of the country.

 

[farmer_john]

Yes...But its way more complicated than that.

Train Advise Assist, Building partner capacity is way more complicated than throwing together a 90 Light Infantry POI then telling them to get after it. Of course they often do not stick around..they have no MEDVAC capability, Leadership is generally incompetent and never showed up to training, no ECAS let alone dedicated CAS, and they get called out for war crimes more often than not.

Its also common to see many senior officers end up dying tragic deaths after their popularity rises beyond that of the president after liberating a part of the country.

Im talking about the ones tasked with joint missions. Not ones doing their own native thing. Wich is always orders magnitude worse.

 

[RLD]

The biggest issue in that part of the world isnt really numbers or infrastructure or even permissions.
Its the fact the local nationals dont stick around for the fight. The us forces might lead and train 5x there number but as soon as they take contact the local troops dissapear. Leaving the us forces generally doing it mostly on their own.

It really makes you wonder what failure of leadership/organization makes that happen. Are they not paid and equip well enough? Are they not trained properly?

Properly led/trained majority local/black units have had great results in a number of conflicts in Africa.

The Selous Scouts, 32 Battalion, Koevoet, all spring to mind as performing really well and were made up of primarily of locals.

 

[farmer_john]

It really makes you wonder what failure of leadership/organization makes that happen. Are they not paid and equip well enough? Are they not trained properly?

Properly led/trained majority local/black units have had great results in a number of conflicts in Africa.

The Selous Scouts, 32 Battalion, Koevoet, all spring to mind as performing really well and were made up of primarily of locals.

Alot of them are not motivated. Just like iraqi soldiers were retarded and couldnt even manage jumping jacks.
Your jihadis are motovated do die. Alot of your african soldiers are there for 3 hots and a cot.

With the rhodesians who were the ones leading the units tho.

 

[roverandbrew]

Im talking about the ones tasked with joint missions. Not ones doing their own native thing. Wich is always orders magnitude worse.

The "Combined" operation comes back to authorities and permissions.

 

[farmer_john]

The "Combined" operation comes back to authorities and permissions.

even with authorities and permissions doesn't keep our soldiers from getting into deep shit because our allies are trash.

 

[roverandbrew]

Not sure of your background or level of expertise but I would put ICTF or ANASOF as had a higher capability than the majority of our National Guard units in actual combat. Conscripts or GPF, you are right in most cases. Colombian SOF, prior to the current administration of theirs was doing HALO infils into an offset then walking in. Pretty daring for trash.....When we as a nation are committed to a problem, I often find the host nation a bit more motivated.

 

[roverandbrew]

even with authorities and permissions doesn't keep our soldiers from getting into deep shit because our allies are trash.

While not indenting to argue, I disagree. Increase authorities and permissions often come with increased resources because our US service members are assuming more risk. Increased resources generally increase lethality on the battlefield. ISR, CAS, MEDEVAC, Intel Support, QRF... all come to mitigate risk to force when we have permission to do more than just "train".

 

[farmer_john]

Not sure of your background or level of expertise but I would put ICTF or ANASOF as had a higher capability than the majority of our National Guard units in actual combat. Conscripts or GPF, you are right in most cases. Colombian SOF, prior to the current administration of theirs was doing HALO infils into an offset then walking in. Pretty daring for trash.....When we as a nation are committed to a problem, I often find the host nation a bit more motivated.

Just a national geographic field researcher. Going to fun parts of the world with some fun people.

And im not saying they dont have some decent and tough guys with a higher iq that are good.
But your rank and file guys in africa and iraq/afgan really suck.

 

[mdwest]

Not sure of your background or level of expertise but I would put ICTF or ANASOF as had a higher capability than the majority of our National Guard units in actual combat. Conscripts or GPF, you are right in most cases. Colombian SOF, prior to the current administration of theirs was doing HALO infils into an offset then walking in. Pretty daring for trash.....When we as a nation are committed to a problem, I often find the host nation a bit more motivated.

Granted, my experience is both dated and limited…

But I was always super impressed with Colombian Lanceros and Guatemalan Kaibilies…

And the ANSOF unit that was partnered with 22 SAS in Logar Province in 2008 were frankly as good as many Central European SOF I’ve worked with (we were supporting them with UXO, EOD, and demining operations for about 18 months and spent a lot of time with them)…

Most ANA units sucked, no doubt.. but there were some that were VERY good..

My firm has done a lot of training and support with numerous central, east, and west Africa SOF units… none of them come close to the quality of what I’ve worked around in central or South America, and certainly doesn’t even get close to European militaries..

But there are some that are reasonably decent…

In the Middle East there are a number of countries with relatively good SOF units … Jordan in particular comes to mind… they train hard, have a good budget, and work extensively not only with our “regular” SOF units, but also have a fairly deep relationship with our “tier 1” units..

 

[roverandbrew]

Granted, my experience is both dated and limited…

But I was always super impressed with Colombian Lanceros and Guatemalan Kaibilies…

And the ANSOF unit that was partnered with 22 SAS in Logar Province in 2008 were frankly as good as many Central European SOF I’ve worked with (we were supporting them with UXO, EOD, and demining operations for about 18 months and spent a lot of time with them)…

Most ANA units sucked, no doubt.. but there were some that were VERY good..

My firm has done a lot of training and support with numerous central, east, and west Africa SOF units… none of them come close to the quality of what I’ve worked around in central or South America, and certainly doesn’t even get close to European militaries..

But there are some that are reasonably decent…

In the Middle East there are a number of countries with relatively good SOF units … Jordan in particular comes to mind… they train hard, have a good budget, and work extensively not only with our “regular” SOF units, but also have a fairly deep relationship with our “tier 1” units..

I agree the African partners are behind Central / South American and European Units. I think we can attribute that to persistent vs episodic training and funding due to priorities in the world at the time. Remember when all of Africa fell under EUCOM and no one cared.

 

[farmer_john]

I agree the African partners are behind Central / South American and European Units. I think we can attribute that to persistent vs episodic training and funding due to priorities in the world at the time. Remember when all of Africa fell under EUCOM and no one cared.

The French did. Lol