PHASA Captive Bred Lion Hunting

SafariA

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We do not see the big picture . The onslaught is on hunting as a whole. ARA s are quiet the last 2 years .... why ? Because we have some of our own fighting their fight for them . We are pressing the self destruct button daily . We put more effort in fighting each other than we ever put in fighting for OUR course .....

Sad day indeed ....
 
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firehuntfish

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When some of the European Hunting Associations were asked what the difference is between raised Pheasants and Lions they said children take fluffy stuffed lions to bed not pheasants...... this is where our problem lies.

That is definitely a BIG part of the problem...
 

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When some of the European Hunting Associations were asked what the difference is between raised Pheasants and Lions they said children take fluffy stuffed lions to bed not pheasants...... this is where our problem lies.

I get the whole anthropomorphic idealization of wild animals. Walt Disney productions "did hunters in" many years ago by making them into villains in the movie BAMBI. I watched it as a kid and did not like the hunter!

We have to deal with the majority in the middle.


On Lions and the Pheasant shoots:

1. Lead time between the release and the hunters arrival plays a huge role. If the pheasant is released out of a box in front of the hunter to be shot it does not differ much from clay targets. Hardly call that hunting. Release them several days before into a large sized property with good habitat you will likely have to hunt them. (obviously they have to be well raised birds)

2. The ability of evade and escape is really where the comparison fails.
In this instance a Pheasant will have an opportunity to actually escape the hunter entirely (if released early enough) by leaving the area as they can fly over any fence or through hiding well enough in the area to be passed by. For obvious reasons, the Lion can never have the option of escaping the area. It has to be within the bounds of the property by law.
I have no direct/indirect knowledge of a lion evading a hunter in a release situation.

Again, for discussion not condemnation.
 

SafariA

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I get the whole anthropomorphic idealization of wild animals. Walt Disney productions "did hunters in" many years ago by making them into villains in the movie BAMBI. I watched it as a kid and did not like the hunter!

We have to deal with the majority in the middle.


On Lions and the Pheasant shoots:

1. Lead time between the release and the hunters arrival plays a huge role. If the pheasant is released out of a box in front of the hunter to be shot it does not differ much from clay targets. Hardly call that hunting. Release them several days before into a large sized property with good habitat you will likely have to hunt them. (obviously they have to be well raised birds)

2. The ability of evade and escape is really where the comparison fails.
In this instance a Pheasant will have an opportunity to actually escape the hunter entirely (if released early enough) by leaving the area as they can fly over any fence or through hiding well enough in the area to be passed by. For obvious reasons, the Lion can never have the option of escaping the area. It has to be within the bounds of the property by law.
I have no direct/indirect knowledge of a lion evading a hunter in a release situation.

Again, for discussion not condemnation.
I hunted a high end Pheasant property in VA ..... late afternoon we were told they all come back to the holding pens at night . There were hundreds of them there. Thats all they know.

If we use this then ALL animals in a fenced area has no chance of eacape.

Again I have to state . 8 out of 100 properties are allowed under the Resolution . This is to enable control . We have come to a point where we are trying to regulate what is done and how it is done.

These animals are not going to disappear . I am attaching a letter sent to DSC for your info .

Soon .... in a few weeks it will be done by Phasa . They will have their own Profile !

All news and Statements will be posted in order for the members to get to their own conclusions.

Pls note the part about Captive Bred animals conservafion value .... the IUCN , CITES etc.

If captive bred animals has no conservation value we would have lost the White Rhino in the 70 s ..... and no it is not different . All animals are equal ...
or are some more equal than others .
 

SafariA

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Here the doc sent to DSC
 

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wesheltonj

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I received the DSC e-mail this morning. I don't understand their rational. They could have devised a standard under which they believe the CBL are considered a fair chase hunt as SCI does. Sounds like DSC took the political expedient position, that will help no one in the long run. I have zero interest in hunting, wild, ranch or CBL lions. My problem is when you give an inch the enemy will take a mile. And I am afraid the mile is captive bread anything. We shall see.
 

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I hunted a high end Pheasant property in VA ..... late afternoon we were told they all come back to the holding pens at night . There were hundreds of them there. Thats all they know.

If we use this then ALL animals in a fenced area has no chance of eacape.
.........


How do we educate people on the subject?
There are going to be differences of opinion and what will be acceptable to each individual.
I sincerely hope PHASA can find its way through this.


I'm only using the species that were presented. It is a poor comparison for the reasons stated.
Although, you won't lose your license when the Kudu jumps the fence or the Warthog digs under.

In my jurisdiction they do not do that process anywhere I am aware of for Pheasant releases/shoots.

In my home jurisdiction it is ILLEGAL to hunt behind any type of high fence for anything. Zero species. It took me a lot of research and learning to understand the RSA model and subsequently find an Outfitter and property that I felt were large enough to provide self sustaining and fair chase hunting.

I have also encountered a wide open property in RSA with multiple species that I could have "Shot" all of them from one high vantage point and never moved. The property was literally entirely within rifle range. Some obviously find that acceptable, I do not.
My mistake, I never asked the question.
 

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.......... They could have devised a standard under which they believe the CBL are considered a fair chase hunt as SCI does. .......

Probably expecting too much but, I guess this is what I want PHASA to do.
PHASA standards, PHASA assessors, etc.
 

Philip Glass

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When some of the European Hunting Associations were asked what the difference is between raised Pheasants and Lions they said children take fluffy stuffed lions to bed not pheasants...... this is where our problem lies.
Makes my point that the antis only care for animals that are made into teddy bears!
 

PHASA

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Herwith an interview done with Carte Blanche by Richard York . This interview was part of a program on Lions in South Africa . Hopefully this will give a little better view on current situation .

Happy Hunting

 

AfricaHunting.com

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From CARTE Blanch

Cash Before Conservation
The King of the jungle has been losing its habitat over the past decades and you are more likely to see lions, especially cubs, in cages or fenced enclosures than ever before. But what is the fate of the thousands of lions being bred in captivity around South Africa?

Please note that this story contains some graphic images and may disturb sensitive viewers.

Producer: Joy Summers
Presenter: Derek Watts

 
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SafariA

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Thanks for posting this .... this would show members how different an interview can be portrayed by selective editing .....
 

IvW

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Wonder what either PHASA or SAPA have to say regarding the latest fiasco on one of the SAPA accredited breeding facilities where lion cubs etc. had to be removed and some euthanized...I guess neither organizations or nature conservation really care..as nobody ever did any inspections and the owner did just what he wanted...and that boils back down to giving hunters the bad name...if not controlled and monitored you can be a member of whatever you like and it makes no difference if you have no standards or don't follow the rules...
 

Hank2211

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Wonder what either PHASA or SAPA have to say regarding the latest fiasco on one of the SAPA accredited breeding facilities where lion cubs etc. had to be removed and some euthanized...I guess neither organizations or nature conservation really care..as nobody ever did any inspections and the owner did just what he wanted...and that boils back down to giving hunters the bad name...if not controlled and monitored you can be a member of whatever you like and it makes no difference if you have no standards or don't follow the rules...
Can you give us a reference to what you are referring to? I can't see to find it . . .

Thanks
 

IvW

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Can you give us a reference to what you are referring to? I can't see to find it . . .

Thanks

Just google North West Lion farmer, who is apparently a SAPA member...
 

Hank2211

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Just google North West Lion farmer, who is apparently a SAPA member...

Thanks. That helped. Here's one story: https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-af...es-uncovered-at-north-west-lion-farm-30351242

This looks horrific. If he is indeed a member of SAPA, then they will have some explaining to do, but my fear is that no amount of explaining will make this right in the eyes of anyone. Certainly, as someone who has hunted CB lion, I find it totally unacceptable.

As hunters, we can only hope the the farmer was not a member of SAPA, and so try to get some distance between hunters and this episode if we can.
 

tigris115

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I feel that SAPA needs to be more aggressive in 2 fields, those being...

Animal welfare

Conservation

Fair chase

I know that there are farms and safari outfitters that do enforce these rules but SAPA needs to be firmer on them and maybe they can accredit certainSA hunting outfitters like how the AZA accredites zoos so that a hunter looking for a lion knows when they see the SAPA logo, they're getting an ethical hunt.

Then once that is done, you can focus on PR
 

CBH Australia

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You are using the ignorant words of the antis when you call RSA lion hunting canned. Sir canned means shooting an animal in a pen! Nothing more. Are you a member of PETA or a hunter? If you are familiar with RSA or Texas for that matter you would understand that captive animals are raised and hunted and without this system you would not be on this forum!
I am so tired of so called hunters using the words of the antis!
Sorry but I’m mad,
Philip
Canned? I don’t like the term does that mean farmed meat processed at an abattoir sold from a butcher shop is canned? Maybe in the eye of the antis it is.
I thought there was like a 4 day release period for a lion released for hunting.
Dunno, haven’t been to Africa yet.(Soon!)
I can’t afford. lion but I’d like too as long as it seemed like it had a fair chance . Couldnt bring it home either.
I know we can lay off the lions and chase Grizzly bear. Don’t say it out loud the antis will hear.
 

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