New premium rifle or custom

[Ontario Hunter]

Is bad weather really that dangerous to a wood stock?

It can do a number on the finish for sure. Foul weather often = falling down a lot hunting conditions = beating up a nice stock. Also foul weather can cause wood to swell which can affect accuracy. Synthetic stocks don't swell. Downside is they are colder to handle than wood stocks. I can't shoot very well wearing gloves so I prefer wood, for my right hand anyway. Unfortunately, my preferred shotgun, a classic A5 Browning, has a history of pounding wood stocks and fore ends to pieces so it now wears synthetic. I love wood on my field guns but I love this A5's fit and balance and durability enough to sacrifice cosmetics. Together we are almost unbeatable in the field. At one point this fall I bagged nine uplands in succession without a missed shot ... including one Hun from a covey flushed in almost 40mph wind (no chance for a double in that breeze). And yes there was a lot of stumbling involved with my 73 year-old legs in rough country.

 

[ftothfadd]

This is just my opinion. I have two full custom rifles with carbon wrapped barrels and carbon fiber stocks. They both shoot well and you can change the barrel on them with some effort using a barrel vice and prefit barrels. I like them, but I do not think they were money well spent. At this point, that I am approaching 50, my longing for these plastic fantastic creations have decreased and I am returning to my European roots of wood stocks and metal barrels... That is, I would not pay custom price anymore for these plastic - carbon rifles. I agree with you that you can buy nearly equivalent rifles for half price from some brands. Indeed, if I were to get into serious long range shooting, which would mean a lot of practice, I would look for something with even easier barrel replacement. Here comes the new sequins PH3 into the picture with the easily replaceable barrels. Disclaimer, I have never owned a sequins but I certainly fondled a lot the new PH3 in the local stores. The stock is a little clunky on the basic Havac PH3 but the action is very nice, easy to run despite the 60 degree lift. If I were on the market right now I wold likely pick that rifle...

 

[Hunting Hitman]

I purchased a Bergara B14 Cima CF from Pendleton Ammunition on a deal they offered. Seems like a lot of rifle for the money. Came with a suppressor as well.

Bergara B14 Cima CF - w/ Carbon Cure Barrel

For sheep hunts and other backcountry applications weight matters - this is why we offer these lightweight Bergara rifles.

adventure-armory.com

HH

 

[farmer_john]

It can do a number on the finish for sure. Foul weather often = falling down a lot hunting conditions = beating up a nice stock. Also foul weather can cause wood to swell which can affect accuracy. Synthetic stocks don't swell. Downside is they are colder to handle than wood stocks. I can't shoot very well wearing gloves so I prefer wood, for my right hand anyway. Unfortunately, my preferred shotgun, a classic A5 Browning, has a history of pounding wood stocks and fore ends to pieces so it now wears synthetic. I love wood on my field guns but I love this A5's fit and balance and durability enough to sacrifice cosmetics. Together we are almost unbeatable in the field. At one point this fall I bagged nine uplands in succession without a missed shot ... including one Hun from a covey flushed in almost 40mph wind (no chance for a double in that breeze). And yes there was a lot of stumbling involved with my 73 year-old legs in rough country.
View attachment 735059View attachment 735058

Ya but ifnyour barrels free floated and reciever bedded thats not so much an issue.
The finish issue i can see being a problem

 

[375Ruger416]

Both a custom and a nice higher end factory rifle are good options. IMO you should go with a semi custom or nicer factory rifle such as a Seekins PH3, Springfield Waypoint 2020, Weatherby 307 Alpine CT, or a Weatherby Mark V Backcountry 2.0. There are many in your price range that are outstanding rifles. I’d also consider a Browning XBolt 2 in one of its flavors.

Do you want an accurate hunting rifle you can shoot long range with or a long range rifle you can hunt with? I’d recommend a slightly heavier rifle the more long distance shooting you want to do. I have a 300 PRC that weighs about 9.5 lbs with scope, rings, etc. It is wonderful to shoot, but it is not the lightest rifle to carry for miles and miles. I have a 7 lb 6.5 PRC for that, but it’s not as easy to shoot steel at 800 yds with.

For a long range rifle to shoot bug-hole groups and consistently, ring steel out past 600, I would absolutely go fiberglass/carbon fiber stock with a bedding block. Carbon fiber wrapped gets you bull barrel rigidity without all the weight. I don’t believe they last any longer or shorter than all steel barrels but they are more $$$. For a dual or triple use option (hunting, long range shooting, competing) CF wrapped are a great option IF they fit your budget. If you’re going to compete and shoot thousands of rounds through it per year, a user changeable barrel is a big advantage.

So, bla bla bla right? You’ve heard all my rationale, now, I’ll actually make a recommendation. I’d go with a Springfield Waypoint 2020 or Seekins Havak PH3 in 6.5 PRC. Try to shoulder both and pick the one that appeals to you more. Put good glass and a suppressor on it if you can and go shoot the barrel out.

280 AI, 7 PRC, and 300 PRC are solid options too depending on your budget and if you hand load. I’ve been looking at reloading over the holidays and 6.5 PRC is widely available at a reasonable price, significantly less recoil than the bigger PRC’s, and very accurate in factory ammo. At the moment, 7 PRC is running 150 to 200 fps than box velocity in much of the factory ammo. More recoil than the 6.5 PRC but not as clear as a performance edge as it should be.

Hope this is useful, but if not at least entertaining! A Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours.

 

[akrifleman]

Both a custom and a nice higher end factory rifle are good options. IMO you should go with a semi custom or nicer factory rifle such as a Seekins PH3, Springfield Waypoint 2020, Weatherby 307 Alpine CT, or a Weatherby Mark V Backcountry 2.0. There are many in your price range that are outstanding rifles. I’d also consider a Browning XBolt 2 in one of its flavors.

Do you want an accurate hunting rifle you can shoot long range with or a long range rifle you can hunt with? I’d recommend a slightly heavier rifle the more long distance shooting you want to do. I have a 300 PRC that weighs about 9.5 lbs with scope, rings, etc. It is wonderful to shoot, but it is not the lightest rifle to carry for miles and miles. I have a 7 lb 6.5 PRC for that, but it’s not as easy to shoot steel at 800 yds with.

For a long range rifle to shoot bug-hole groups and consistently, ring steel out past 600, I would absolutely go fiberglass/carbon fiber stock with a bedding block. Carbon fiber wrapped gets you bull barrel rigidity without all the weight. I don’t believe they last any longer or shorter than all steel barrels but they are more $$$. For a dual or triple use option (hunting, long range shooting, competing) CF wrapped are a great option IF they fit your budget. If you’re going to compete and shoot thousands of rounds through it per year, a user changeable barrel is a big advantage.

So, bla bla bla right? You’ve heard all my rationale, now, I’ll actually make a recommendation. I’d go with a Springfield Waypoint 2020 or Seekins Havak PH3 in 6.5 PRC. Try to shoulder both and pick the one that appeals to you more. Put good glass and a suppressor on it if you can and go shoot the barrel out.

280 AI, 7 PRC, and 300 PRC are solid options too depending on your budget and if you hand load. I’ve been looking at reloading over the holidays and 6.5 PRC is widely available at a reasonable price, significantly less recoil than the bigger PRC’s, and very accurate in factory ammo. At the moment, 7 PRC is running 150 to 200 fps than box velocity in much of the factory ammo. More recoil than the 6.5 PRC but not as clear as a performance edge as it should be.

Hope this is useful, but if not at least entertaining! A Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours.

+1 Havak PH3

 

[NDWoods]

The up side to me in custom is having input on every aspect of the rifle. It is valuable to me to on some of my rifles have a one of a kind rifle where I chose the stock, action, bottom metal, trigger, barrel maker, barrel profile, twist rate, barrel length, action and bolt handle modifications, sling studs rail arca and or flush cups, and custom camo finish.

You can spend half as much and get a $2,500 rifle that is very similar and potentially shoots just as good.

 

[Rare Breed]

Most who are considering custom are thinking nice wood, CRF action, blued metal, etc. A classic hunting rifle. Long range rifles are typically multi-adjustable synthetic stock, push feed action, long barrel, bipod, "tactical" scope, etc = butt ugly. So, what are you looking for? Something to hunt with or a gun that will gong metal in the next zip code?

I would go for a custom build over anything off the shelf, new or used. The custom is made for you. It becomes part of your identity for the rest of your/its life. A lot more than just a tool. But you won't get much of a custom rifle for $2500. I built my own 404J on a Mauser 98 and did most of the work myself. I cut a lot of corners (e.g. refinished a fancy used stock) and it still set me back about $2700. If I shopped for a buyer I could probably sell it for more than that but not much more. But now I have a gun that truly has my name on it. Any serious long range metal-gonger will have more than $2500 tied up in a scope.

I have had the worst luck with two “custom built” rifles the word custom now scares me after expensive fixes. Give me a trusted premium rifle any day. Watch out for “custom built” rifles NIB never fired

 

[K E Johnson]

I am now over three years into my custom build and was originally told less than a year when I commissioned the build.
Trying not to push too hard for completion, but neither he nor I will live forever. The smith is older and has had some health problems. But, from reading this forum, he has done more or less off the street work in the interim too.
Just one consideration.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I built my custom 404 in four months two years ago. Granted I took a couple of shortcuts ... actually, only one and that was an upgrade to prettier stock after the project and safari were completed. If the OP will settle for a synthetic stock, that could speed completion dramatically. Initially I bought a rough "semi-finished" stock off an auction sight. I was in a hurry because fourth safari was already booked. Got it done in time.

Then a year later I bought a fancy used stock from another auction site. Making it fit required some unexpected ingenuity but it turned out well. Also switched to a newer scope with more comfortable eye relief.

If OP is willing to do some of the work himself, he can save considerable $$$ and time completing a custom project. Many on here would be happy to assist.

 

[Sabre]

At the price range you are saying, I would not get a "custom built" rifle. I would also echo the response that what you pay doesn't always equate to better or more accurate when it comes to rifles.

Multiple people have said Seekins Precision Havak PH3. I also would recommend that rifle. I have the Havak PH2 and it is a great rifle. It meets the criteria you have mentioned. You could find lighter rifles for hunting. And you could find heavier rifles for long range target. But this one is capable of doing both if that's what you want.

Their customer service also has a great reputation. I have only called them for minor issues on a scope ring and to talk to them about their rifles. But each time they were quick to respond with an actual human who knew what they were talking about and very happy to take the time to help in any way they could. That is depressingly rare these days, but happy when you encounter it with a company.

 

[uplander01]

Buy a used Dakota 76 in anything from 7mm-338, put a good optic on there, use it, and the best part, never lose your money. All of these modern plastic fad brands are all worth nearly nothing after you buy and use them.

 

[375Ruger416]

Buy a used Dakota 76 in anything from 7mm-338, put a good optic on there, use it, and the best part, never lose your money. All of these modern plastic fad brands are all worth nearly nothing after you buy and use them.

Beautiful rifles, but do not make a good choice for a long range shooting/competing/possible hunting rigs.

I’ve been drooling over rigby’s and dakotas/parkwest arms rifles all weekend. However, I am skeptical blued and wood rifles will continue to hold their value. As the boomers age, stop hunting, and downsize I foresee a glut of these rifles for sale. My generation (X) and Gen Y and Z do not have the same appreciation for blued and walnut so who’s going to be buying all these rifles. I see the same future for used Harley Davidson’s in 5-10 years (my father has 2).

I think it’s a mistake to mix up a great hobby - hunting, shooting and rifle collecting with a wealth preservation or growth strategy. However, I think it is true they do hold their value ‘better’ than more modern rifles and think they will remain true in the short to medium term.

My opinion, worth what you paid for it.

 

[SS hunter]

Sadly, I am afraid that you are right

 

[Bighorn191]

If you want a really accurate synthetic stocked gun:
Impact Precision Action = $1500
Triggertech Diamond trigger = $300
Benchmark Carbon or steel barrel = $800
McMillan, Manners, Allterra, TS Customs Stock = $1250
M5 bottom metal with DBM Mag = $300
Smith chambering/put together = $800

Total = $4950 but you can shop everything and likely get it down close to $4000 I bet and likely just do a pre-fit barrel and save all the smith costs. It's easy to do.

 

[farmer_john]

Beautiful rifles, but do not make a good choice for a long range shooting/competing/possible hunting rigs.

I’ve been drooling over rigby’s and dakotas/parkwest arms rifles all weekend. However, I am skeptical blued and wood rifles will continue to hold their value. As the boomers age, stop hunting, and downsize I foresee a glut of these rifles for sale. My generation (X) and Gen Y and Z do not have the same appreciation for blued and walnut so who’s going to be buying all these rifles. I see the same future for used Harley Davidson’s in 5-10 years (my father has 2).

I think it’s a mistake to mix up a great hobby - hunting, shooting and rifle collecting with a wealth preservation or growth strategy. However, I think it is true they do hold their value ‘better’ than more modern rifles and think they will remain true in the short to medium term.

My opinion, worth what you paid for it.

I agree and disagree to a point. Where we part ways on opinion is you neglected to take class/income into account. Alot of the younger generations cant even afford a downpayment on a house let alone a rifle that costs almost that much.

Mass producded cheap guns wont hold value. Some more bespoke guns will. Just like art. Not many people are or can afford to be a connoisseur. But there will always be art. Same for fine guns. Alot of americans would prefer 5 $600 dollar guns instead of 1 $3000 gun. But for most people a cheap guns good enough. Hence their popularity

But i also woukd not approach firearms as a investment either.

 

[Hogpatrol]

I’m thinking of getting a higher end bolt rifle or maybe a custom build. I have been looking at a Springfield Waypoit 2020 with carbon barrel. I know there are Seekins, Bergera, Fierce, Christensen and others in this price and quality range. I know there are people on here who are gun aficionados well beyond my knowledge. Any thoughts? These are in the $2500 range. I have a local customer compary (Hart) that will do a similar custom build for 4-5k. Is it worth it or not. Who has one of these higher end factory rifles that is positive on the rifle. Not sure what caliber I’ll get. Thinking somewhere between 6.5 PRC and .300 PRC. Big range i know lol, but looking for a modern cartridge. Thx.

With today's premium component costs and gunsmith labor, a good custom is going to be north of 5k.
Be advised there are a lot of Johnny come lately "My shop has CNC and I'm now in the barrel/action/trigger or stock manufacturing business", that can leave you hanging if you have a problem. BTDT on two components. Go with known, proven names that back up their product.

 

[akrifleman]

Ya but ifnyour barrels free floated and reciever bedded thats not so much an issue.
The finish issue i can see being a problem

I suspect you have never hunted a river in cold weather. After being wet for a week, wood often gets really contorted.

Alder tickets scratching the crap out of everything and boat bottoms are not bespoke friendly. Stainless synthetic with optics that are twice the rifle price actually are successful by the year after year hunters.

 

[farmer_john]

I suspect you have never hunted a river in cold weather. After being wet for a week, wood often gets really contorted.

Alder tickets scratching the crap out of everything and boat bottoms are not bespoke friendly. Stainless synthetic with optics that are twice the rifle price actually are successful by the year after year hunters.

depending how loosly we use the term hunting. Ive spent months in very very crapy and miserable weather and environmental conditions some sub zero others living in mud like shin deep never a dry moment.

But ive never had a bespoke wood stocked rifle with me some laminated wood but never more than that

The british seem to like stalking/traveling with their rifles cased. From what ive seen. And my question is how did people hunt 100 years ago with nice rifles that seem to have weathered time and adventures well?
And thats not sarcasm thats a legit question. Because synthetic stocks really only have been super popular last 20 ish years or so.

 

[akrifleman]

depending how loosly we use the term hunting. Ive spent months in very very crapy and miserable weather and environmental conditions some sub zero others living in mud like shin deep never a dry moment.

But ive never had a bespoke wood stocked rifle with me some laminated wood but never more than that

The british seem to like stalking/traveling with their rifles cased. From what ive seen. And my question is how did people hunt 100 years ago with nice rifles that seem to have weathered time and adventires well?
And thats not sarcasm thats a legit question. Because synthetic stocks really only have been super popular last 20 ish years or so.

Honestly, people have really changed. So many more people back then grew up with iron sight 22s, and had superior bushcraft skills. A much larger proportion of people lived in rural areas, and the overall population was far less.

Those folks used wood stocked levers that absolutely allowed you to torque a barrel, but they took shots under 100 yds. They also missed a lot more than they claimed. Author after Author would write about hunting buddies with Teddy Roosevelt vision that would blast away at herds til they hit something. The past always gets rewritten by faulty memories.

A commercial sheep hunter then would kill more per year, than all now issued tags for an entire year, because populations hadn't yet consumed all habitat.

Now, most of us work in urban areas, and have to depend on marksmanship for the handful of PTO days available for hunting. Synthetic stocks really started showing up in the 80s and 90s. That's already 40 years (how time flys). Ugly as sin, those first plastic stocks, but guys quickly realized for boreal swamps, they held up much better.

On my trapline, I become acutely aware of how disconnected I sometimes get. Takes a month to really start to see and hear it again. Obviously just an opinion, that I can't back up with clear facts, but it's what Ive observed.