Mark Sullivan the Expose’

[rookhawk]

I feel like these threads keep saying things like “he’s grown a lot, “he really regrets things he said X years ago”, “he’s changed his positions”.

The fellow was kicked out of SCI because of his videos and his ideas. It’s not just the hunting community that takes issue with what he does.

I’m all for forgiveness and second chances, but the way I see it is this: he is still selling those videos that espouse the beliefs that rubbed people the wrong way. As long as he is making money off his old ideas, he is going to be judged by his old ideas.

If he wants to be reevaluated by the public he should put a statement on his website that explains his new beliefs and discontinue (or re-cut) his films.

 

[BJH65]

Can an animal hate? Weird thought. Humanization of animals is odd whether it’s Disney or MS. Either way it’s straight up unethical to not put an end to an animal’s suffering post haste. Also, are hunters “tormentors” of the animals they hunt? I don’t think so… Now is MS a tormentor? Seems like it. Is that being a good ambassador for hunting? Most definitely not

Not really odd to me, we humans tend to humanize things, especially in our stories. Have you not read Hemingway, Ruark and J.A. Hunter’s stories and thrilling adventures involving the hunting of DG? Whether an animal is capable of feeling hate I don’t know, but it makes for thrilling reading, grizzly attacks, African DG, Tigers, etc…I find it odd your viewpoint, very analytical and devoid of human emotion, and I mean no offense to you in all sincerity…one could easily pick apart the great writers and hunters of the past….clearly we are of different generations.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

There are more than a few reasons I wouldn’t hunt with him. One reason is I would be there to hunt MY DG not fund his hunting… He’s got it figured out I’ll give him that.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Not really odd to me, we humans tend to humanize things, especially in our stories. Have you not read Hemingway, Ruark and J.A. Hunter’s stories and thrilling adventures involving the hunting of DG? Whether an animal is capable of feeling hate I don’t know, but it makes for thrilling reading, grizzly attacks, African DG, Tigers, etc…I find it odd your viewpoint, very analytical and devoid of human emotion, and I mean no offense to you in all sincerity…one could easily pick apart the great writers and hunters of the past….clearly we are of different generations.

I said others did it too. MS is an unethical d bag. Yes I’m a millennial. But let’s leave generational stuff out of it. Many of his critics are a lot older than me.

As far as me being analytical I’d say most people don’t think about anything in depth. The average person that is.

 

[275r7x57]

This reminds me of the 45-70 for DG thread.

Bow Hunting?
45-70 Hunting?
Handgun Hunting?
High Fence Hunting?
Low Fence Hunting?
No Fence Hunting?

How about not returning shipping deposit, that you agreed to return?

The list can go on. It is easy for all of us to cast stones.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I feel like these threads keep saying things like “he’s grown a lot, “he really regrets things he said X years ago”, “he’s changed his positions”.

The fellow was kicked out of SCI because of his videos and his ideas. It’s not just the hunting community that takes issue with what he does.

I’m all for forgiveness and second chances, but the way I see it is this: he is still selling those videos that espouse the beliefs that rubbed people the wrong way. As long as he is making money off his old ideas, he is going to be judged by his old ideas.

If he wants to be reevaluated by the public he should put a statement on his website that explains his new beliefs and discontinue (or re-cut) his films.

I’m not going to try to dissuade you or anybody from disliking him, but I will correct one anecdote of yours.

Starting from 2023, SCI has now set aside all their differences with Mark. He attended the 2023 SCI convention at Nashville after 15 years (they invited him themselves). And most of the people there were quite happy to see him back. He will be attending all the future conventions as well.

 

[BJH65]

I said others did it too. MS is an unethical d bag. Yes I’m a millennial. But let’s leave generational stuff out of it. Many of his critics are a lot older than me.

As far as me being analytical I’d say most people don’t think about anything in depth. The average person that is.

My response to you had nothing to do with MS, it was regarding your take on humans well, humanizing animals and how odd you find it. No need to be sensitive about some generational differences, it’s real and it exists, as it always has and always will. We all have our varying viewpoints and thoughtful opinions including yours, that’s a good thing.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

This reminds me of the 45-70 for DG thread.

Bow Hunting?
45-70 Hunting?
Handgun Hunting?
High Fence Hunting?
Low Fence Hunting?
No Fence Hunting?

How about not returning shipping deposit, that you agreed to return?

The list can go on. It is easy for all of us to cast stones.

I think this is more akin to the CBL debate

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

My response to you had nothing to do with MS, it was regarding your take on humans well, humanizing animals and how odd you find it. No need to be sensitive about some generational differences, it’s real and it exists, as it always has and always will. We all have our varying viewpoints and thoughtful opinions including yours, that’s a good thing.

Look, you can’t say you mean no offense personally and then immediately insinuate it may be a generational difference. By stating that you are making implications. And now you’re being condescending/patronizing by adding “sensitivity” to the mix. I get it that people have always humanized animals. Nothing new under the sun. I find it just plain goofy to the level he does. I find it even more goofy that people are attracted to his nonsense.

 

[BJH65]

I think this is more akin to the CBL debate

Hmmm. I’m not so sure? Perhaps an apple to oranges comparison. Seems the vast majority really don’t endorse his style of hunting, at least as depicted on his videos, but most seem to like MS the man. I can think of no other PH like him who has made a living with his style of hunting.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Hmmm. I’m not so sure? Perhaps an apple to oranges comparison. Seems the vast majority really don’t endorse his style of hunting, at least as depicted on his videos, but most seem to like MS the man. I can think of no other PH like him who has made a living with his style of hunting.

His practices, like CBL, are more controversial than the other topics mentioned. IMHO. That’s all I’m saying

 

[BULLET SAFARIS]

From one American PH to Another... well done Mark! After all these year you still have them stirred up!

Each PH has a style, and Mark's is unmistakably him. His personality may not be for everyone, but folks that get shit done are seldom liked by everyone.

Hunting style... like ethics, religion and women; to each his own and you should only choose for yourself.

He has been treated poorly by the African hunting community and treated unfairly by 'clubs' in various way over his long career. Sad that we don't stand up for each other - there are way bigger threats to the safari hunting industry than other PHs.

Like him or hate him he has generated more interest in hunting Africa than anyone alive today.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

 

[BJH65]

Look, you can’t say you mean no offense personally and then immediately insinuate it may be a generational difference. By stating that you are making implications. And now you’re being condescending/patronizing by adding “sensitivity” to the mix. I get it that people have always humanized animals. Nothing new under the sun. I find it just plain goofy to the level he does. I find it even more goofy that people are attracted to his nonsense.

Well, you are proving my point.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Well, you are proving my point.

Have a nice day

 

[HankBuck]

There are more than a few reasons I wouldn’t hunt with him. One reason is I would be there to hunt MY DG not fund his hunting… He’s got it figured out I’ll give him that.

@Wishfulthinker580 - you keep stating reasons “Why you wouldn’t hunt with Mark Sullivan” - has he asked you to Hunt with him?
Well don’t feel left out - He hasn’t asked me either but’ I’m not going to answer in advance.

 

[Nyati]

I met Mark a few years ago at the Madrid Hunting Show "Cinegetica", an affable gentleman with a great sense of humour, but more macho cockiness than I like.

I´m not going to make any serious judgment of him, as I can´t say I really know him.

As to his hunting style, well, that´s how he does it, and you can like it or not, your choice. but I won´t criticize

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

@Wishfulthinker580 - you keep stating reasons “Why you wouldn’t hunt with Mark Sullivan” - has he asked you to Hunt with him?
Well don’t feel left out - He hasn’t asked me either but’ I’m not going to answer in advance.

Well I’m not the outfitter in this situation. Ha

Also can’t afford TZ haha. If I could or were I to be able to in the future I would choose a serious and professional operator to hunt with. You know, a real PH

 

[275r7x57]

From one American PH to Another... well done Mark! After all these year you still have them stirred up!

Each PH has a style, and Mark's is unmistakably him. His personality may not be for everyone, but folks that get shit done are seldom liked by everyone.

Hunting style... like ethics, religion and women; to each his own and you should only choose for yourself.

He has been treated poorly by the African hunting community and treated unfairly by 'clubs' in various way over his long career. Sad that we don't stand up for each other - there are way bigger threats to the safari hunting industry than other PHs.

Like him or hate him he has generated more interest in hunting Africa than anyone alive today.

Agreed!

 

[Paul K]

This thread started at 2am Thursday and about to hit 9 pages. Amazing. I wonder what the end result will be? Just curious. Reminds me of an old trucker saying. Sounds like a bunch of truck drivers, sitting in the dark and bitching about it.