Lion Tracking Hunt and Elephant

BambiKiller

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Hey All. Been out of the African hunting scene since 2005. Trying to plan an exportable male wild lion hunt done by tracking. Alternatively or on the same trip want to go for a large exportable trophy bull elephant (USA).

Which outfitters/booking agents are the best right now for these types of hunts?

For the lion, I strongly prefer free roaming but a large enough game fenced location might be ok (basically where you never see a fence except on entry/exit). I’m not interested in put and take. Looking for an old male with a nice mane who has been through the wars.

For Elephant looking for 50 pounds plus or for that beautifully shaped Tanzania ivory would go slightly lower. Obviously a 90 pounder would be awesome but I’m looking for wild elephants not pay by weight type agreements. Also a tracking spot/stalk. Not a “drive down the road next to X, turning around and doing it again.” Until you find tracks, follow for an 15 min to an hour and bang. Not disparaging those that enjoy it, I just get most of my enjoyment from the legit tracking experience.

Is Tanzania still an option now that pasanisi is out (had a hunt booked with them maybe 8 years ago but had to cancel due to work)? Booked Elephant in Zim after with Russ Broom in the area he took that #90 pounder until he disappeared with my deposit and many others.

Who is reputable that took over the main Pasanisi Elephant units and is the quality still there given the vacuum in anti-poaching?

Looking at a 21-28 day safari. Open to different countries as long as no export issues and honest businesses. I hunt an iron sights 500 NE double, a custom 416 Rigby and an echols legend 7mm rem mag. have no interest in shooting beyond 30 yards on DG.

Bonuses: fly fishing, bird shooting, hippo up close on land, excellent Kudu, lesser kudu (understand this means TZN), Sable, misc other unique or exceptional PG.

Any advice/input appreciated.

End goal is completing the big 5. Saw on Cites website that Cameroon has exportable ivory. This sounds interesting as forest ele as also want to do a Lord Derby Eland but have no info on the Cameroon Ele. Imagine it would need to be a forest and savannah combo.

If there is an honest and ethical booking agent who may suit my needs please let me know.

Otherwise outfitter suggestions welcome. I’m just slightly gunshy after Russ Broom stole a *not small* amount of money from me and left me little recourse beyond dealing with the brain damage of suing him and successfully collecting.

Buffalo trophy size is not a priority at all on any hunt as already took a giant bossed 42.5” and a 45” buff in Masai land with adam clements group. I do enjoy it though.

Not super fussy about ultra lux accommodations but won’t turn it down. Just good customer service, clean, good bush food, etc. Movable Tent camp would be totally cool.

Thanks.
 

CAustin

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Where do you reside!? Fenced lion currently not importable to USA nor is an elephant from Zimbabwe.
There are a couple of outfitters on this site that can help you with Tanzania!
 

BambiKiller

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Where do you reside!? Fenced lion currently not importable to USA nor is an elephant from Zimbabwe.
There are a couple of outfitters on this site that can help you with Tanzania!
California but have a vacation home in Oregon.
 

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I think after trying to read your thread that you need to maybe actually decide what your animal priorities are.....you go from ele...to lion...to Derby eland....to non fenced to maybe fences to 90 lbs ivory... to...fly fishing to excellent kudu to lesser kudu....sable.........apologies if I missed anything out......but might have fallen asleep while .............:sleep:
 

BambiKiller

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I think after trying to read your thread that you need to maybe actually decide what your animal priorities are.....you go from ele...to lion...to Derby eland....to non fenced to maybe fences to 90 lbs ivory... to...fly fishing to excellent kudu to lesser kudu....sable.........apologies if I missed anything out......but might have fallen asleep while .............:sleep:
Lion or elephant by tracking priority.

Ele of 50 pound reasonable for the area with possibility for larger. I’m more experience based than upset if tusks are 45 pounds.

Lion, old with decent to good mane. Strong preference for no fence.

The other stuff is just hunts I’m contemplating in future or possibly could be added in a good area.
 

neckdeep

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CMS has talked about a doing a Lion hunt on foot late season in the past, and Buzz is known for his elephant hunts, they have an Excellent reputation. If you want to do a strictly elephant hunt The Nyae Nyae Conservancy in Northeast Namibia would be a good place to go.
 

BambiKiller

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CMS has talked about a doing a Lion hunt on foot late season in the past, and Buzz is known for his elephant hunts, they have an Excellent reputation. If you want to do a strictly elephant hunt The Nyae Nyae Conservancy in Northeast Namibia would be a good place to go.
Thanks. Will give Buzz and Myles a ring.

Any other locations/outfitters?

Who is the best aftica DG booking agent these days?

Which Selous outfitters are reputable and have the good elephant blocks. My memory recalls them being southwest blocks?
 

steve ahrenberg

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Thanks. Will give Buzz and Myles a ring.

Any other locations/outfitters?

Who is the best aftica DG booking agent these days?

Which Selous outfitters are reputable and have the good elephant blocks. My memory recalls them being southwest blocks?

I use John Barth, Adventures Unlimited, exclusively. He doesn't want your money, he wants to pick the right experience for you, as you explain it. You'll have no problem getting sent to hunt someplace by any booking agent, plenty of them here. Be absolutely SURE you are getting the experience you are after.
 

Mort Hill

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I use John Barth, Adventures Unlimited, exclusively. He doesn't want your money, he wants to pick the right experience for you, as you explain it. You'll have no problem getting sent to hunt someplace by any booking agent, plenty of them here. Be absolutely SURE you are getting the experience you are after.

Ditto! One of the best!
 

sierraone

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All you guys trying to help BambiKiller here. Have any lion or elephant import permits been issues since Trump has been president?
 

WAB

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Great question Sierraone. I assume that the Namibian and RSA import permits are still being issued on elephant but I do not know anyone who has done so. Our Canadian friends have the definite advantage on this one!
 

BambiKiller

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Definitely one of my concerns. News made it seem on but personal experience is nearly always better
 

sierraone

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Definitely one of my concerns. News made it seem on but personal experience is nearly always better
@Royal27 ...you usually keep up with this subject. What say you on the latest?
 

BambiKiller

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Which species do you all think will be banned before the other? Lion seems like it would come before elephant. Leopard next and then rhino? Just speculating on how much time I have to get this done.
 

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Which Selous outfitters are reputable and have the good elephant blocks. My memory recalls them being southwest blocks?

There are probably no Selous blocks with good elephants anymore. Poaching. You are 7-12 years to late. Probably a significant contributing factor for the reason Pasanisi is out of business. Tanzania did have a handful of nice elephants last year, but most that I am aware of are coming from hunting park boundaries in the north.

To get an elephant over 60#???, you will probably be hunting blocks adjacent to NP's in most countries. The Nye Nye, is probably an exception, and there is always a chance a large elephant will show up anywhere. Word on the street is that Botswana will reopen the end of this year or next year. This after a sabbatical of six or so years. This could be the best chance to get the ivory size you want, but not the shape. Botswana ivory will be short and thick.

Lions can probably be picked up in a number of countries. Northern Tanzania tends to produce thick mains. Especially when compared to the Selous. From my understanding you will not be able to get a lion in Botswana. You might consider multiple hunts in multiple locations. Especially if you want to throw in a LDE.

Getting a lion or elephant into the USA now is a case by case basis from what I understand. If your vacation home was in the Cayman's instead of Oregon, your situation would be much better. Royal might have an update on lion or elephant imports as mentioned above. John Jackson or SSI can probably give you current information as well. (A friend is hunting lion later this year. From my understanding, he has already approached John Jackson to get his CITES prior to the hunt. Not sure how that is going.)

You ask about agents, then mention that you had a good experience with Adam Clements. Is there a reason not to call him?

Not sure if this helps much. All the best in your endeavors.
 

BambiKiller

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There are probably no Selous blocks with good elephants anymore. Poaching. You are 7-12 years to late. Probably a significant contributing factor for the reason Pasanisi is out of business. Tanzania did have a handful of nice elephants last year, but most that I am aware of are coming from hunting park boundaries in the north.

To get an elephant over 60#???, you will probably be hunting blocks adjacent to NP's in most countries. The Nye Nye, is probably an exception, and there is always a chance a large elephant will show up anywhere. Word on the street is that Botswana will reopen the end of this year or next year. This after a sabbatical of six or so years. This could be the best chance to get the ivory size you want, but not the shape. Botswana ivory will be short and thick.

Lions can probably be picked up in a number of countries. Northern Tanzania tends to produce thick mains. Especially when compared to the Selous. From my understanding you will not be able to get a lion in Botswana. You might consider multiple hunts in multiple locations. Especially if you want to throw in a LDE.

Getting a lion or elephant into the USA now is a case by case basis from what I understand. If your vacation home was in the Cayman's instead of Oregon, your situation would be much better. Royal might have an update on lion or elephant imports as mentioned above. John Jackson or SSI can probably give you current information as well. (A friend is hunting lion later this year. From my understanding, he has already approached John Jackson to get his CITES prior to the hunt. Not sure how that is going.)

You ask about agents, then mention that you had a good experience with Adam Clements. Is there a reason not to call him?

Not sure if this helps much. All the best in your endeavors.

Thx. This was helpful.

I haven’t called Adam yet because while we took good trophies, there were issues after that I found unacceptable and just didn’t connect personally with him. Hunted with Wayne Clark (RIP). Didn’t think of it. Plus the scene changes so much over the years I was hoping for current intel.
 

Royal27

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@Royal27 ...you usually keep up with this subject. What say you on the latest?

Elephant definitely not since the case by case was implemented. And that's for all countries including those such as SA and Nam that could import when it was country based. Somebody please correct me if you're aware of any ele approved since case by case went into place.

I'm not aware of any lion approved under case by case but from what I hear there is a better shot at lion than elephant. If I had to place a bet on one it would be lion hands down.

Anyone who believes that they will be able to get a permit for either prior to the 2020 elections is living in a fantasy world I'm afraid... But again, if I was going to bet on a permit it would be for a lion.

As far as Tanzania goes I don't think you'll be able to get an elephant from there even if case by case starts getting approved. Just way too much poaching.
 

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I took the last buff and one of the last ele’s out of Bots before the closure. I guess I didn’t realize how lucky I was to get that ele home!
 

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I took the last buff and one of the last ele’s out of Bots before the closure. I guess I didn’t realize how lucky I was to get that ele home!

I understand where your coming from regarding that. USFW made their ruling on April 4, 2014, and made it retroactive to January 1, 2014. I had shot an elephant on March 29 (if I remember correct) and was still in the field hunting in Zim. The news traveled like wildfire through the PH community of Zimbabwe. After returning home, USFW determined that they would probably loose all of the backdated cases and made the effective date April 4. It was a big relief to me, and I certainly felt fortunate/blessed.
 

BambiKiller

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Got intel from a Matetsi outfitter he has had 3 lions import approved. Will let him speak here if he feels warranted
 

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