Lion hunting SA

[ACE (in CT)]

I find this thread to be fascinating ... and very worthwhile.

As long as we can keep it somewhat civil and blood free (human blood) I guess it's valuable.

There are several analogies here in the USA to many types of hunting: Bear for example, in many areas where they are hunted, if you didn't have the option of baiting them or using hounds, you'd rarely see them and not very many would be taken. It's easy for someone used to hunting in Western Canada or the Rocky Mountain states to say that bears should only be legal to hunt spot and Stalk, but how then would Maine ever control it's growing bear population? You can't spot and stalk in the thick woods where normal visibility might be 25 yards.

Using Dogs for hunting usually isn't too controversial if we are talking about a Pointer for Upland birds a beagle for rabbits or a Retriever for waterfowl, but if you want to start a fistfight bring up the topic of Hound Hunting deer, which has a rich tradition in several southern states.

Heck, Cougar hunting with hounds has been eliminated in many places, with more likely on the way. (and not the kind of cougars referred to in some earlier posts on this thread about Hookers vs future ex wives).

There are no shortages of things we hunters can argue about, when you throw in some alcohol and the fact that we Keyboard Cowboys rarely have to risk getting punched in the face by the guy we just insulted, it can get downright Sporty! Carry On!

 

[IvW]

I cull buffalo(wild herds) on large fenced game reserves as well as PAC elephant that break into fenced ranches large ones, as well as lions(escaped from breeding facilities and wild ones), as well as hippo, in fact the fence is destroyed on the one side.....perhaps I should decline as this now seems to be canned or put and take hunting....
Way too much is made of fenced areas. In RSA game ranches have to be fenced. Yes size makes a difference but to just say all fenced areas or ranches or farms are the same is just idiotic......
So all hunters who visit and hunt RSA are unethical and are parricipating in unethical practice?????
I do not partake in CBL hunting but if somebody wants to and it is legal I see no reason why they should not if that is what they want to do.....

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

I cull buffalo(wild herds) on large fenced game reserves as well as PAC elephant that break into fenced ranches large ones, as well as lions(escaped from breeding facilities and wild ones), as well as hippo, in fact the fence is destroyed on the one side.....perhaps I should decline as this now seems to be canned or put and take hunting....
Way too much is made of fenced areas. In RSA game ranches have to be fenced. Yes size makes a difference but to just say all fenced areas or ranches or farms are the same is just idiotic......
So all hunters who visit and hunt RSA are unethical and are parricipating in unethical practice?????
I do not partake in CBL hunting but if somebody wants to and it is legal I see no reason why they should not if that is what they want to do.....

Nobody is really discussing fences in earnest. Primarily cbl and subsequently put and take

 

[IvW]

Referances made to hunting buffalo cow on a fenced property as well as CBL not being any different than any other fenced hunting......

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

No its not. Was Cecil a CBL? I have a family member make PETAs website for shooting a giraffe. Not CBL. So not a worn out argument. To care about the opinion of Anti's is a losing game.

As you said not all put and take are the same, I think one can hunt a CBL ethically. You don't. It’s all good man.

That statement is a cop out, it’s used as an excuse or permission for someone to do whatever they want. Obviously hunters are disliked by antis in a broad sense. What people ought to be concerned about is the general public.

The actual “HUNT” can be ethical. Not one person has said that the method was problematic, just everything else about it.

 

[IvW]

Nobody is really discussing fences in earnest. Primarily cbl and subsequently put and take

And whoever books a cbl hunt sure as shit knows exactly what the procedure is when the hunt is booked or not?????

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Client is equally at fault. Or nearly so

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Referances made to hunting buffalo cow on a fenced property as well as CBL not being any different than any other fenced hunting......

The cow was on 4,000 acres… Obviously that statement about cbl was misleading..

 

[TOBY458]

So what you’re saying is it’s no different than any other put and take operation? Not all high fence operations are created equal

You are correct. Just as not all CBL hunting is created equal. Just curious, have you hunted game of any sort inside of a fence? And I'm not being argumentative with you, I just want to know where you stand on hunting on fenced game ranches. Do you believe that all hunting besides free range hunting should be banned? If so, I understand your argument. You are simply opposed to hunting any animal under such conditions. And that's fine. But if anyone can condemn CBL hunting while condoning hunting PG and Buffalo under indentical conditions, I just can't understand that argument. That's all.
I, like you, do appreciate the conversation, and am always open to discuss these topics with anyone who is willing to have a sane, logical discussion. I just fail to see the logic in some of the responses we've seen on this thread.

 

[IvW]

Client is equally at fault. Or nearly so

Only if he disagrees with the practice or somewho(which is hard to believe) is conned into shooting such a lion.....
Surely somebody who books a cbl hunt knows what the story is??
They dont have an issue with it it is legal and they book and do the hunt? Rather simple....

If someone does not agree with the practice that is 100% fine dont partake and book a wild lion hunt....if they dont have an issue do partake if they want and shoot a cbl lion.....rather simple....
He or she will certainly know before the time exactly what the procedure is when booking the hunt.....

Bickering and condoning fellow hunters for legal practices because we personally do not agree with certain things will only shoot hunters in the foot.....same goes for fenced properties....

Some dont like hunting over bait, some dont like hunting using artificial light....thats fine I do because I love hunting nocturnal species and bushpigs etc....and this is the only way.....is it unethical?? Only if it is your personal choice is it unetheical and I cannot condemn somebody if the like doing it....is it legal? Yes it is.....

In any hunting in any country there are people who break the rules and the law so yes do your homework before the time......
If the thought is that illegal activities only take place in RSA well then there are a lot of eye opening that needs to take place. ...

 

[LivingTheDream]

That statement is a cop out, it’s used as an excuse or permission for someone to do whatever they want. Obviously hunters are disliked by antis in a broad sense. What people ought to be concerned about is the general public.

The actual “HUNT” can be ethical. Not one person has said that the method was problematic, just everything else about it.

Again not a cop out, since you agree with me in the next sentence. Again ethics vary, if I said it is legal than it is ethical, that would be a cop out to do whatever I want.

So the "Hunt" can be ethical. Is that the way they are raised that is unethical?

 

[IvW]

The cow was on 4,000 acres… Obviously that statement about cbl was misleading..

Well his arse got chowed for that.....why???

 

[375Fox]

I cull buffalo(wild herds) on large fenced game reserves as well as PAC elephant that break into fenced ranches large ones, as well as lions(escaped from breeding facilities and wild ones), as well as hippo, in fact the fence is destroyed on the one side.....perhaps I should decline as this now seems to be canned or put and take hunting....
Way too much is made of fenced areas. In RSA game ranches have to be fenced. Yes size makes a difference but to just say all fenced areas or ranches or farms are the same is just idiotic......
So all hunters who visit and hunt RSA are unethical and are parricipating in unethical practice?????
I do not partake in CBL hunting but if somebody wants to and it is legal I see no reason why they should not if that is what they want to do.....

I’ll pretend to believe this for sake of this argument. This is another attempt to muddy the waters and attempt to draw a parallel to something that isn’t related. Hunting a wild animal behind a fence is very different than “hunting” an animal raised as livestock that was released 7 days prior to a “hunt.” CBL has nothing do to with hunting behind fences. CBL lions are raised on 400 square meters (20 m by 20 m) per SAPA standards and released 7 days prior to hunt into hunting area (again per SAPA standards).

 

[375Fox]

Well his arse got chowed for that.....why???

And it happens in nearly every argument Ontario Hunter participates in. What makes this argument different that you suddenly support his side?

 

[IvW]

I’ll pretend to believe this for sake of this argument. This is another attempt to muddy the waters and attempt to draw a parallel to something that isn’t related. Hunting a wild animal behind a fence is very different than “hunting” an animal raised as livestock that was released 7 days prior to a “hunt.” CBL has nothing do to with hunting behind fences. CBL lions are raised on 400 square meters (20 m by 20 m) per SAPA standards and released 7 days prior to hunt into hunting area (again per SAPA standards).

That is so.
Do you believe the person who books a CBL is not aware of this?
Not all CBL hunting is regulated by SAPA.

 

[375Fox]

You are correct. Just as not all CBL hunting is created equal. Just curious, have you hunted game of any sort inside of a fence? And I'm not being argumentative with you, I just want to know where you stand on hunting on fenced game ranches. Do you believe that all hunting besides free range hunting should be banned? If so, I understand your argument. You are simply opposed to hunting any animal under such conditions. And that's fine. But if anyone can condemn CBL hunting while condoning hunting PG and Buffalo under indentical conditions, I just can't understand that argument. That's all.
I, like you, do appreciate the conversation, and am always open to discuss these topics with anyone who is willing to have a sane, logical discussion. I just fail to see the logic in some of the responses we've seen on this thread.

Have you visited a CBL breeding farm? I can’t see the difference in CBL hunts when they originated from the same source. The argument isn’t about hunting fenced ranches. The argument is about hunting farm raised lions.

 

[IvW]

And it happens in nearly every argument Ontario Hunter participates in. What makes this argument different that you suddenly support his side?

I dont agree with a lot he comments on and on one thread it turned into a shitshow......
I have no problem with him hunting a buffalo cow on 4000 acres the way it was discribed as simple as that.....yet some have issues with that...why?

 

[375Fox]

That is so.
Do you believe the person who books a CBL is not aware of this?
Not all CBL hunting is regulated by SAPA.

So are and some are not. Many want to believe what best suits their interests. For low cost many questions don’t get asked. Also, many first time hunters to South Africa can’t imagine the level of commercialization so don’t know to ask or even believe it if told.

 

[375Fox]

I dont agree with a lot he comments on and on one thread it turned into a shitshow......
I have no problem with him hunting a buffalo cow on 4000 acres the way it was discribed as simple as that.....yet some have issues with that...why?

I don’t. But I have no interest in the description he gave either.

 

[IvW]

So are and some are not. Many want to believe what best suits their interests. For low cost many questions don’t get asked. Also, many first time hunters to South Africa can’t imagine the level of commercialization so don’t know to ask or even believe it if told.

Well then they are at fault as well...