Lee Speed Rifle?

[PCC600]

Remember "Lee-Speed" should be thought of as a modern term for a "commercial" Lee-Metford/Lee-Enfield rifle. They are so-called because of the "Lee Speed Patents" marking that they carried.

Absolutely spot on .

 

[Huvius]

Another thing to consider is that Lee Speeds were largely all the same - made by BSA for the market retailers to put their name on and sell.
Just about every gunmaking firm sold Lee Speeds with their names on them.

I had a really nice example retailed by Hussey Ltd. Which has a Harris patent charger.
The lever on the side lowers the magazine to allow cartridges to be dropped in and then racked up. Mine and one in Australia are the only two I have seen but as you can see, my rifle was #30 of the patent use so there should be more out there.

 

[PCC600]

Another thing to consider is that Lee Speeds were largely all the same - made by BSA for the market retailers to put their name on and sell.
Just about every gunmaking firm sold Lee Speeds with their names on them.

I had a really nice example retailed by Hussey Ltd. Which has a Harris patent charger.
The lever on the side lowers the magazine to allow cartridges to be dropped in and then racked up. Mine and one in Australia are the only two I have seen but as you can see, my rifle was #30 of the patent use so there should be more out there.

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What a wonderful rifle . From the photos the rifle appears to have a non detachable magazine - which if so flies in the face of Lee’s detachable magazine patent . Either way it is a beautiful , elegant rifle in the great 303 . I have seen Lee Speed rifles ( in photos ) made by London Small Arms ( LSA ) but I think they were only made in fairly small numbers . Is the rifle identified as a BSA or a BSA & M ? Same company but the (&M) suffix would date it between 1895 and 1897 . Thank you for sharing these photos .

 

[Huvius]

Correct. The magazine floor plate is fixed.
I don’t recall if the rifle was stamped “Lee- Speed” or not under the bolt - I’ll look at old photos and see if it did.
I should have kept this one but you know…

 

[PCC600]

Correct. The magazine floor plate is fixed.
I don’t recall if the rifle was stamped “Lee- Speed” or not under the bolt - I’ll look at old photos and see if it did.
I should have kept this one but you know…

Yes seller’s remorse is all too common amongst collectible firearm owners .

 

[Sarg]

Correct. The magazine floor plate is fixed.
I don’t recall if the rifle was stamped “Lee- Speed” or not under the bolt - I’ll look at old photos and see if it did.
I should have kept this one but you know…

Oh you sold it, was there something wrong with it, I’d kill for one with the Harris Charger !

Yours & Tony’s are the only two I have seen also, I saw one with a floor plate none detachable but not 100% on it being original some how ?

Thank you for posting your photos !

 

[PCC600]

I th

I don't believe I have ever seen one that was a fake. They really aren't that valuable to warrant that level of work to create one - at least not yet. Compared to here, they seem to go for a song on the UK auction sites.

I think they were cheap in the UK as a result of a Scottish ban on the 303 cartridge for deer stalking . Apparently the 303 was deemed to not be powerful enough ( huh ! ). Good Lee Speeds are starting to bring good money at auctions everywhere . Still great value - particularly those originally retailed through famous British rifle makers .

 

[PCC600]

G

View attachment 508187


There is a misconcetion that the Lee Speed was or is a particular rifle but in reality the name Lee Speed pertains to the rear locking bolt and the detachable magazine with the Patents held by Joseph J. Speed, and not the stock stock style. What we now call the Lee Speed was originally simply called the BSA Sporting Rifle

The Lee-Speed Rifle​

The name "Lee Speed" comes from two designers' names--James Paris Lee, who invented the action that was used in all the Lee Metford and Lee Enfield military rifles---and Joseph Speed, RSAF designer, who took out patents on many of the features we associate with the Lee Enfield series of rifles. The term "Lee Speed" was used for commercial rifles (i.e., non-Government; intended for civilian sales). These rifles were mostly manufactured by the BSA company (who also made Gov't rifles, so they had the machinery in place to make sporting versions very economically), and many are stamped with the BSA logo. However, other companies also sold them, and put their own stamps on them--so you will find some Lee Speed rifles that are marked W.W. Greener, Army & Navy, Manton, etc. The "Lee Speed" was stamped on the rifles to indicate the patent holders The easiest way to tell if it's a commercial vs. Gov't rifle is the markings. Military rifles will have the sovereign's stamp; commercial guns will not.
Patents were held by James Paris Lee (bolt and mag) and by Joseph Speed (mag) and so had to be marked on commercial arms sold to the public.

Lee Speeds were built by BSA and LSA 1890 - 1914. After that the patent expired and was no longer marked on the rifle. So technically, there were no Lee Speeds after 1918, but the name stuck and all factory BSA & LSA sporters got the handle Lee Speed.
There were also volunteer arms available for purchase, full blown military specs, so these are also 'Lee Speeds' but usually don't get called by that nick name.

The original incarnation of the most well known of all British service rifles was the Rifle, Magazine, Lee-Metford, adopted in 1888 just as several other major powers were adopting nitrocellulose small bore cartridges and new magazine rifles. It was named, in British convention of the era, for the bolt action of Canadian gun designer James Paris Lee and the rifling design of William Ellis Metford. Lee's bolt action design had its antecedents in his prior Model 1879 and Remington-Lee 1885 rifles for the United States Navy, but the design made for the British was a significant improvement over these and featured a 10-round box magazine fed by an en bloc charger, offering unheard of firepower. Metford's gently-rounded polygonal rifling pattern had been a mainstay of the military-match world for almost two decades (notably in the Gibbs-Farquharson-Metford and Deeley-Edge-Metford rifles) and was regarded by many experts as being superior in accuracy and minimizing blackpowder fouling when compared to Alexander Henry's angular rifling pattern.

The Lee-Speed resulted from design improvements introduced by Joseph J. Speed, a manager and later Superintendent of the Enfield Royal Small Arms Factory (RSAF). Among these were the safety lever on the bolt and alterations to the magazine to incorporate a 10-round detachable box. Speed's design improvements became standard on the Lee-Metford and later Lee-Enfield rifles, but the rifles produced by the Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) factory for commercial sale were often named Lee-Speed in recognition of Joseph Speed's innovations rather than Lee-Metford, even though the Metford rifling was most typically used in sporting arms even after it was superceded by the Enfield rifling pattern in the military rifles in 1895 to improve barrel life with nitrocellulose propellant (it was concluded, apparently, that the rate and volume of fire for sporting arms did not pose this concern).


"BSA made such rifles from 1892 until at least the 1930s, possibly (but unlikely) even later. The sporting versions were built on the early, pre-charger bridge Lee Metford/Lee Enfield actions, the bolt cover giving them a very sleek and elegant appearance. Later sporters were offered on the charger-bridged MkIII actions


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Great post and yes the true Lee Speeds were only available for a 14 year period before the patent lapsed in 1914 . The true Lee Speeds had dust covers fitted to the bolt and magazine cut offs . The No1 Pattern had a full length milled rib on the barrel . Metford rifling was the norm . Post WW1 the sporting rifles were marketed as Lee Enfield . A much lower grade rifle . No dust cover , no magazine cut off and generally using actions with the charger bridge. These later models were highly copied using old military surplus rifles particularly post WW2.
There were and are loads of sporter Lee Enfields in Australia but the are not Lee Speeds.

 

[Huvius]

Oh you sold it, was there something wrong with it, I’d kill for one with the Harris Charger !

Yours & Tony’s are the only two I have seen also, I saw one with a floor plate none detachable but not 100% on it being original some how ?

Thank you for posting your photos !

Yes, sold it…
Absolutely nothing wrong with it - like I said, wish I hadn’t…
I swear, if I want one of my guns to increase in value, all I have to do is sell it!