Input sought on Scopes less than 1.0

[migrabill]

As some of you know I have ordered a Heym Martini Express in .404 Jeffery. Heym is installing ring specifically for a Swarovski Z8i. The ocular part of the z8i (closest the shooter) is a tad bit bigger on Z8i's so the ring sits a little higher.
Here is my question - I assumed I wanted the 1-8X24, but in looking for it I also see they make a 0.75-6X20. I have no experience with scopes that go less than 1. The reviews seem great. This rifle/scope will be used on Cape Buffalo and Croc. The 0.75 gives you an exceptionally wide field of view. Granted what you lose is the high end, it tops out at 6x rather than 8x, but I'm thinking that's not a big issue on DG. It's also a 20 instead of a 24.
So, what do you guys think? Go with 1-8X24 - or the 0.75-6X20?

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

If I could afford it, I’d go with the 0.75-6 because it sounds like a good idea and who else would have one

 

[Grumpy gumpy]

I think if you need more then x6 magnification on a 404J you should see an optometrist, I had a fixed x4 on mine and that was ok, but really over powered, a 1 to 2 would have been better, I put a red dot on it and that worked well too
Gumpy

 

[Razorback]

Does Chris have rings that will fit a 34mm main tube that’s on the 0.75-6? All I’ve ever seen is 1 in and 30 from him, Talley and Alaska arms.

True 1x acts like a red dot with both eyes open so I don’t know what 0.75 would do better.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Ok, so I’m ignorant. What’s the advantage of less than 1 magnification? Simply field of view?

 

[Jack Stevens]

Ok, so I’m ignorant. What’s the advantage of less than 1 magnification? Simply field of view?

That was my question too.

From point-blank out to 75-yds, less than 1x magnification is called “iron sight shooting,” which is where a .404J rifle shines.

You may as well go “tactical” and mount a RDS for a sub-1x optic.

 

[odonata]

Ok, so I’m ignorant. What’s the advantage of less than 1 magnification? Simply field of view?

I didn't know either so I did a search just to satisfy my curiosity. How accurate the AI response is now the question although the response sounds logical to me. It would always be nice to hear from someone who actually has one to confirm its accuracy:

 

[DieJager]

It is used a lot on driven hunts in Europe.

 

[Philip Glass]

As some of you know I have ordered a Heym Martini Express in .404 Jeffery. Heym is installing ring specifically for a Swarovski Z8i. The ocular part of the z8i (closest the shooter) is a tad bit bigger on Z8i's so the ring sits a little higher.
Here is my question - I assumed I wanted the 1-8X24, but in looking for it I also see they make a 0.75-6X20. I have no experience with scopes that go less than 1. The reviews seem great. This rifle/scope will be used on Cape Buffalo and Croc. The 0.75 gives you an exceptionally wide field of view. Granted what you lose is the high end, it tops out at 6x rather than 8x, but I'm thinking that's not a big issue on DG. It's also a 20 instead of a 24.
So, what do you guys think? Go with 1-8X24 - or the 0.75-6X20?

Please think this over carefully before using a low power scope for a croc. Here is a video that I hope will provoke some thoughts.

 

[Philip Glass]

Ok, so I’m ignorant. What’s the advantage of less than 1 magnification? Simply field of view?

No advantage at all.

 

[Philip Glass]

I think if you need more then x6 magnification on a 404J you should see an optometrist, I had a fixed x4 on mine and that was ok, but really over powered, a 1 to 2 would have been better, I put a red dot on it and that worked well too
Gumpy

He mentioned he was hunting a croc. This is the most precise shot in Africa.

 

[migrabill]

Does Chris have rings that will fit a 34mm main tube that’s on the 0.75-6? All I’ve ever seen is 1 in and 30 from him, Talley and Alaska arms.

True 1x acts like a red dot with both eyes open so I don’t know what 0.75 would do better.

That's a great point. I think the rings are 30MM, so the .075 is out. I'll go 1-8.

 

[migrabill]

He mentioned he was hunting a croc. This is the most precise shot in Africa.

Philip - I'm going to go with the 1-8 because the Heym rings are 30MM.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Not to be a Debbie-downer, but have you ever shot a 404J from the prone position? I use my 404 on buffalo and assorted plains game after the buff, my Lott on elephant.

I’ve never shot a crocodile, but I’m thinking I’d feel much better behind the scope on my ‘06.

But then, I’m sort of a candy-ass.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

The sub 1x comes from the tactical world where it enhances your FOV and helps improve light gathering. Think when you enter a house or room and the lights are off. It’s also carried over into the hunting world for driven shooting. Again the idea is the wider FOV and light gathering helps with target engagement on the move and/or acquisition on multiple targets rapidly. Sometimes stands are set in dark timber so the increased light gathering helps as well. The avg shooter doesn’t have the skill or need for a sub 1x optic. Most don’t shoot both eyes open. Most need every piece of magnification they can get because the avg American shooter can’t shoot irons, and those who can are typically of an age where their vision is deteriorating.

All that said go with the 1-8 in QD’s. If you require less shoot irons up close.

 

[Reckoner]

If making a decision based on tube diameter I'd add a couple of comments for awareness.

The first generation of Z8I's are solely 30mm. These are available in 0.75-6x20mm and 1-8x24mm

A couple of years ago Swarovski started to come out with a slight update, these models are called Z8I+. If you see a "plus" in 0.75-6x32mm it will have a 34mm tube. Same for a Z8I+ in 1-8x24mm....34mm tube.

The "plus" series have a couple of minor upgrades. Slightly increased field of view vs the older models as well an accomadation for an integrated throw lever. They also call out increased ergonomics for the redesigned illumination system

I have some of the original Z8I's including 1-8 and 0.75-6. If maximum field of view is your what you are looking for the 0.75 does bring it, the 1-8 may be a slightly better all rounder as it still has lots of FOV plus a little more mag on the top end. However considering the ranges they will typically be used at i dont think you'd go wrong with either.

 

[skydiver386]

I have the Swaro Z8i .75-6 on a Jerrett Custom 450 Rigby, and it is a superb scope. The ocular lens is very large, mandating mounts that are a bit higher than the low QD mounts that I have on another 450 Rigby that wears a Leupold 1.25-4 VXR.

The .75-6X scope is by far the better option for a Dangerous Game rifle, and the higher magnification scopes are really only valuable on a multi purpose rifle used for PG and DG. To my mind, when a rifle wears a 2-10X, it is no longer a Dangerous Game rifle, but is now a one gun for Africa rifle. Not a thing wrong with this, but we might as well admit what it is.

I see no need for the magnification that hunters and shooters now demand in their optics. The brightness, FOV and lighted reticle are handy in low light, certainly when you are hunting something that might be hunting you. Optical clarity and a reticle that gives contrast with the target are far more important than magnification.

As far as shooting Croc, I shot my mine less than a month ago with a 450 Rigby from the prone with the Leupold 1.25-4. The rifle itself will easily group less than .75 inch at 100 yards with 450 and 500 grain Barnes X bullets. I also like the set trigger on the CZ550 and feel that with a precise shot this trigger is totally undeserving of the criticism leveled against it.

I think if you were able to try a Z8i .75-6 mounted on a DG rifle, the appeal would become obvious.

 

[Razorback]

This is another scope you might consider. I have it on all my Heym Martini rifles. It fits and clears the bolt without getting the tall rings. Has 1x cc mode for close quarters. The TMR version of the Ekos or PMII will not clear the bolt.

 

[migrabill]

The sub 1x comes from the tactical world where it enhances your FOV and helps improve light gathering. Think when you enter a house or room and the lights are off. It’s also carried over into the hunting world for driven shooting. Again the idea is the wider FOV and light gathering helps with target engagement on the move and/or acquisition on multiple targets rapidly. Sometimes stands are set in dark timber so the increased light gathering helps as well. The avg shooter doesn’t have the skill or need for a sub 1x optic. Most don’t shoot both eyes open. Most need every piece of magnification they can get because the avg American shooter can’t shoot irons, and those who can are typically of an age where their vision is deteriorating.

All that said go with the 1-8 in QD’s. If you require less shoot irons up close.

All that makes perfect sense to me. Thanx for your input.