Improving the 375 H&H

IvW

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Besides walking into huning camp with anything that sais Weatherby will raise some eye brows as aposed to Improved:rolleyes::ROFLMAO:
 

HWL

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.375 Weatherby here is considered a "different" caliber....cases are difficult to find....
For as AI is the way to go just fire form H&H and the headstamp makes no difference...fire forming to Weatherby you will have to re licence....
Got it...

HWL
 

Gert Odendaal

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I find the title of this thread interesting. IMO the .375 H&H is one of the most versatile and balanced cartridges we have. I struggle to believe that we can ‘improve’ upon it.
For sure is the .375 H&H Magnum a versatile round to work with..here is a thread about fire forming a a .375 H&H Magnum brass to fit into my 404 Jeffery ..after more than seven years I am still using this brass to shoot in the 404 Jeffery with out any brass failure at all.
Good day members.
Something interesting I like to share with you who are interested in fire-forming brass. A few years back I bought a 404 Jeffery hunting rifle. At that stage 404 Jeffery brass seems not so abundant in South Africa. I had a few eighty years old 404 rounds but was reluctant to shoot these old rounds.

While taking photos of the rifle and old rounds I received from the previous owner , I noticed some of the brass was .375 H&H Belted Magnum rounds and brass. I started wondering if it will be possible to fire form this brass to fit in my 404 Jeffery.

P1010780_zpsmgupgbi9.jpg

P1010799_zpslebnfo2x.jpg

As usual, when contemplating an issue I do not have real answers for, I approached Johan Greyling, the gunsmith with all the answers.

Meanwhile I did post this question on an Afrikaans forum I was a member of that time, naturally all the "clever" people who have all the correct answers available , frequent this forum and this idea was opposed immediately . These "clever " gave measurements to state why this venture is a still born exercise that will never work. ( The knowledge of these "clever persons was determined by the quantity of rifles they possess..)

Meanwhile Johan Greyling explain to me the concept of fire-forming and flow of brass. He also explained that by using 15 gn MP 2OO in the brass stuffed with maze-meal is a safe procedure to blow out brass.

We did fire form the brass in two stages as well as run it through the 404 Jeffery sizing die. The first fire forming round showed the brass fire-formed from the neck to halve way of the brass.
DSC_0010_zpsi6krrvcu.jpg


I used the MP200 15 gn with maze-meal for the second time as well, and run it through the full length 404 sizer.

P1011467_zpsrwljjwbk.jpg

The third time I re-load 71 gn S335 and a 400 gn cast bullet to shoot . This ensured a fully formed .375 H&H Magnum brass fitting in my 404 Jeffery rifle.

P1011469_zps6h2nu1or.jpg

P1011472_zpseepmgvwu.jpg


Phase Two:
I cut the fired formed brass open , as well as a standard .375 H&H Magnum brass and a standard 404 Jeffery brass.
P1011494_zpso3cx0tzl.jpg


This was done to take measurements of how the brass flow happened. I made use of a veneer to take some measurements.
P1011523_zpsgytxenda.jpg
Figuur5_zpscfwsng0k.jpg


P1011524_zpssfgcmecz.jpg


Measuring:
Figure4_zpssru1odmx.jpg


Figure3_zpsxoezomle.jpg


Figure2_zpscgfjj9tg.jpg


I should mention the part which was a concern to the "clever" persons was the part above the belt. In the photo it seems as if the brass bulged out...when holding the brass in your hand this is not evident.
After the experiment I did shoot this brass a lot of times in the tunnel at the safe as well as on the BASA shooting days. This is two years + now and I still re-load this fire-formed brass and shoot it frequently. So far no cracks, head separations, blow outs, blow-ups, nothing the "clever all knowledgeable people " warned me about.

I did mentioned that it is good to posses a lot of theoretical knowledge, but it is even better to posses practical, hands on skills and knowledge.

As pointed out, at no stage was there any dangerous procedures done, since 15 gn of MP 200 stuffed with maze-meal can not in any situation pose danger when following these procedures...

I hope you enjoyed this thread....any inputs are more than welcome....

I did not remove the belt, the brass flows exponentially ...the belt does not make a difference when it fire-formed in the 404 Jeffery chamber. No head-spacing problems, primer pockets are normal, no primer pops out even when I load a full load and shoot the BASA shooting days, as mentioned before, I still re-load this brass and shoot full loads with Impala bullets, cast bullets and any other bullets I use in my 404 Jeffery rifle..

The 404 Jeffery caliber did get extremely popular the past two years, brass are available in most gun shops , I bought new Hornady brass and still re-load the 375/404 brass...

The main objective is to create a data basis regarding specific procedures to follow in regards to:

1) Creating brass for scarce caliber rifles ( Martini Henry brass)

2) Converting standard caliber brass to another standard /re-formed brass for a different caliber. .375 H&H Magnum brass to .375 Ruger brass/ 8x68 S brass to .375 Ruger brass.

3) Perfecting different methods/procedures that will be able to be replicated safely by fellow members.

4) Documenting every step through video clips/photos.

This is what we want to achieve and create

needed some brass to to shoot while practicing and do not want to use my new Hornady brass.
Step I
Anneal the brass .375 H&H Magnum brass.

20170523_163700_zps5qntqlpu.jpg


Step 2
Prime the brass.

Step 3
Resize the brass with a 404 Jeffery full length sizer. To make the experiment interesting I used 30 gn of FFg black powder just to see how it will work. I then fill the brass up with maize-meal, using a dowl to really press the maize-meal down as compact as possible. I then load it into the 404 Jeffery chamber and pull the trigger.The top part, the first three centimeter blow out.
20170523_172721_zpsy6fmgame.jpg

20170523_163925_zpsln1bv7b6.jpg


20170523_165515_zpsmgzxeftg.jpg


At the shooting tunnel, ready to do the first fire forming step...

Step 4
Fire the brass:
20170523_163807_zpsdz8czr4z.jpg


Step 5
Re-load , this time I used 50 gn of S335 and a cast bullet of 380 gn.
20170523_192510_zpsbzsdexpg.jpg


20170523_165553_zpslk6pyvwb.jpg

Step 6
Brass fire -formed to 404 Jeffery:
I did not manage to take a photo of the full sized fire formed brass...will do so when getting back to the Kluis.
Here is how it looks after fire forming is completed ...photos of previous experiment:

End result:

P1011472_zpseepmgvwu%201_zpsrpk3qjmo.jpg


Conclusion:
FFg black powder 30 gn does not fire form brass as efficient as MP200, 15 gn there off.

Black powder soiled the brass ...while MP200 keep the brass clean.

After the last step, where I used 50 gn of S335 and a cast bullet of 380 gn I still had to use a full load of S335 to ensure a fully blown out 404 Jeffery brass from the .375 H&H Magnum brass...

Next time I will use MP 200 from the start..
 

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colorado

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Besides walking into huning camp with anything that sais Weatherby will raise some eye brows as aposed to Improved:rolleyes::ROFLMAO:

Probably true, but after giving my prized BDL in 270 Win to my youngest son, I picked up a well used Mark V in 270 Weatherby. First time out at the range I hit a scuba tank hanging off a chain at 845 yards five times in a row, giving the the thin barrel a minute between shots to cool. A 150g Partition at 3250 fps is hell on mule deer and antelope.
 

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Remember don't confuse the 375 Weatherby with the 378 Weatherby.

You can shoot 375 HH in a 375 Weatherby which will then fire form the HH case to the Weatherby case.

The 378 Weatherby is indeed a totally different case.
 

TOBY458

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One thing that I have drawn from this post is, the 375 H&H AI is very similar in appearance and case design to a 416 Rem Mag. Some of the people in this very post have been somewhat outspoken against the 416 Rem Mag in the past. So I wonder what gives the 375 H&H AI a pass?
Same short neck.
Same belted cartridge case.
Same case taper (much less than the H&H)
Attempting to obtain 2400 fps with a 380 gr bullet and saying that would be a great buffalo cartridge. While the 416 Rem Mag pushes a 400gr bullet at 2400fps, but is cursed for being a "high pressure cartridge".
So what gives? Are you coming to the dark side??? ;)
 

fourfive8

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One thing that I have drawn from this post is, the 375 H&H AI is very similar in appearance and case design to a 416 Rem Mag. Some of the people in this very post have been somewhat outspoken against the 416 Rem Mag in the past. So I wonder what gives the 375 H&H AI a pass?
Same short neck.
Same belted cartridge case.
Same case taper (much less than the H&H)
Attempting to obtain 2400 fps with a 380 gr bullet and saying that would be a great buffalo cartridge. While the 416 Rem Mag pushes a 400gr bullet at 2400fps, but is cursed for being a "high pressure cartridge".
So what gives? Are you coming to the dark side??? ;)

:) Toby, you hit the nail on the head! I was thinking the same thing.

Also, Ackley data should be approached with a dose of reality and eyes wide open. He developed and published that data without using pressure equipment. IMO, it's not realistic to compare Ackley's data directly with other data that was developed in a lab using pressure equipment.

I've had two different Ackley Imp chambered rifles. Neither demonstrated any significant or magic enhancement of performance. The relatively small increase in powder capacity as realized with the AI cartridge might result in a relatively small "potential" for higher velocity with a heavier bullet. But, it's likely any significant increase in performance will come at some price- higher pressure or the necessity to use a longer barrel or both.
 

ruffcountry

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i have a .280 ai and i love it if you want a .375 ai go for it
 

Gert Odendaal

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Toby, good to hear for you and fellow members. Toby, to me every caliber is a working caliber with it`s own merits. I will never criticize a caliber or design of a caliber. I do not have the insight to do so. The only reason I am reaming to the Ackley Improve is … I have the opportunity to ream the chamber tot the Ackely specs. Since I received the reamer as a gift from Dave , a member on our forum. Fortunately for me there is a member who also wants to do this project but does not have the reamer , only the re-loading dies ..I still am in the process to finish a .375 H&H Magnum..and it will be making sense to use the reamer since I have access to re-loading dies ...to me it does not matter if I shoot a .375 H&H Magnum or a Ackley Improved version.if I had to spend money in doing so I would not have thinking about reaming my .375 H&H Magnum at all...since it does not cost me money at all , I am doing it...it is only a rifle to use for shooting..clay shooting , target shooting or fun shooting...and enjoying doing it ....as long as I can shoot a rifle , it will be fun..Ivor do it as a Professional Hunter to use in his arsenal of working rifles ...I do it for fun..when the day comes for me to move on I will happily give the rifles I have away to any one who would want them and would use them for enjoyment...my son will only take two of my rifles ..the 8x57 JS and the 404 Jeffery ..all the other rifles will go to members on this forum if they want them...so keep an eye open when you receive information of me moving on to the Happy Hunting grounds be sure to contact my son and collect what you want..my family are not rifle loving people since my children was not raised as a hunter like me..
It will be the right thing to do..at least I know the rifles will go to someone who would care for it..but until that glorious day,,I am building a few more rifles and buyig a few more interesting rifles ...
 

IvW

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One thing that I have drawn from this post is, the 375 H&H AI is very similar in appearance and case design to a 416 Rem Mag. Some of the people in this very post have been somewhat outspoken against the 416 Rem Mag in the past. So I wonder what gives the 375 H&H AI a pass?
Same short neck.
Same belted cartridge case.
Same case taper (much less than the H&H)
Attempting to obtain 2400 fps with a 380 gr bullet and saying that would be a great buffalo cartridge. While the 416 Rem Mag pushes a 400gr bullet at 2400fps, but is cursed for being a "high pressure cartridge".
So what gives? Are you coming to the dark side??? ;)

Yes I have been I know and I still do not like the 416 Rem Mag(personal choice). In the 400 class I personally prefer 404 Jeff and second 416 Rigby.

I started this post and my Idea was to shoot the heavy for caliber 375 H&H bullets at a respectable velocity. I have always been of the opinion that for large game including DG that heavy for caliber bullets at respectable velocity, which from my experience is min 2200 fps and max 2400 fps making 2300 fps the sweet spot. This is my experience and my goal.

As mentioned I have two 375 H&H rifles on ZKK602 actions both with pop up peep sights and one original and one with a custom barrel. I simply want to be able to shoot 340 gr (soft and solid), 350 gr soft or if possible 380 gr soft Rhino bullets only within this velocity range. If this fails then I may re barrel to 404 Jeff.

Why do it?

Sectional density 375 H&H

300 gr Rhino SD .305
340 gr Rhino SD .345
350 gr Rhino SD .356
380 gr Rhino SD .386

Sectional density 416 Rem Mag

400 gr SD .330

Pressure(high pressure=higher recoil and other issues such as extraction in hot climates)

375 H&H standard 62,366 psi
375 H&H AI 350 gr bullet @ 2395fps muzzle velocity 4459Ft/lbs of energy
Pressure is very low 46903 psi so we should get the 380gr up to 2300 fps plus at low pressure.

416 Rem Mag 400gr bullet at just over 2400 fps 65000 psi

Versatility

I can shoot standard 375 H&H ammo out of the AI chamber(same for the Weatherby chamber).

I still own the single most versatile caliber, I just cut the chamber(cheap) enhanced performance for what I want to do(heavy caliber bullets at my stated velocities at low pressure).

I know many like the 416 Rem Mag I do not but that is personal choice. In this case the 416 RM cannot achieve what I want to achieve.

Gonna be a fun project.....

I hope this makes it a bit more clear as to what I want to achieve....
 

TOBY458

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Yes I have been I know and I still do not like the 416 Rem Mag(personal choice). In the 400 class I personally prefer 404 Jeff and second 416 Rigby.

I started this post and my Idea was to shoot the heavy for caliber 375 H&H bullets at a respectable velocity. I have always been of the opinion that for large game including DG that heavy for caliber bullets at respectable velocity, which from my experience is min 2200 fps and max 2400 fps making 2300 fps the sweet spot. This is my experience and my goal.

As mentioned I have two 375 H&H rifles on ZKK602 actions both with pop up peep sights and one original and one with a custom barrel. I simply want to be able to shoot 340 gr (soft and solid), 350 gr soft or if possible 380 gr soft Rhino bullets only within this velocity range. If this fails then I may re barrel to 404 Jeff.

Why do it?

Sectional density 375 H&H

300 gr Rhino SD .305
340 gr Rhino SD .345
350 gr Rhino SD .356
380 gr Rhino SD .386

Sectional density 416 Rem Mag

400 gr SD .330

Pressure(high pressure=higher recoil and other issues such as extraction in hot climates)

375 H&H standard 62,366 psi
375 H&H AI 350 gr bullet @ 2395fps muzzle velocity 4459Ft/lbs of energy
Pressure is very low 46903 psi so we should get the 380gr up to 2300 fps plus at low pressure.

416 Rem Mag 400gr bullet at just over 2400 fps 65000 psi

Versatility

I can shoot standard 375 H&H ammo out of the AI chamber(same for the Weatherby chamber).

I still own the single most versatile caliber, I just cut the chamber(cheap) enhanced performance for what I want to do(heavy caliber bullets at my stated velocities at low pressure).

I know many like the 416 Rem Mag I do not but that is personal choice. In this case the 416 RM cannot achieve what I want to achieve.

Gonna be a fun project.....

I hope this makes it a bit more clear as to what I want to achieve....
I agree with your intent in making the 375 a bit more versatile by adding case capacity. I think it's a great idea given the firearms restrictions you have to deal with. However, I really don't see how two cartridges with the same case capacity could run at different pressures with similar SD bullets. If anything, the 416 RM can be ran at lower pressures and still achieve the desired 2300 fps with a 400 grain bullet, or 2200 with a 450 gr bullet.
But my whole purpose was to get you to agree that the 416 RM isn't that bad after all. ;)
 

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We want to see pictures..... :)

HWL
 

HWL

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For sure is the .375 H&H Magnum a versatile round to work with..here is a thread about fire forming a a .375 H&H Magnum brass to fit into my 404 Jeffery ..after more than seven years I am still using this brass to shoot in the 404 Jeffery with out any brass failure at all.
Good day members.
Something interesting I like to share with you who are interested in fire-forming brass. A few years back I bought a 404 Jeffery hunting rifle. At that stage 404 Jeffery brass seems not so abundant in South Africa. I had a few eighty years old 404 rounds but was reluctant to shoot these old rounds.

While taking photos of the rifle and old rounds I received from the previous owner , I noticed some of the brass was .375 H&H Belted Magnum rounds and brass. I started wondering if it will be possible to fire form this brass to fit in my 404 Jeffery.

P1010780_zpsmgupgbi9.jpg

P1010799_zpslebnfo2x.jpg

As usual, when contemplating an issue I do not have real answers for, I approached Johan Greyling, the gunsmith with all the answers.

Meanwhile I did post this question on an Afrikaans forum I was a member of that time, naturally all the "clever" people who have all the correct answers available , frequent this forum and this idea was opposed immediately . These "clever " gave measurements to state why this venture is a still born exercise that will never work. ( The knowledge of these "clever persons was determined by the quantity of rifles they possess..)

Meanwhile Johan Greyling explain to me the concept of fire-forming and flow of brass. He also explained that by using 15 gn MP 2OO in the brass stuffed with maze-meal is a safe procedure to blow out brass.

We did fire form the brass in two stages as well as run it through the 404 Jeffery sizing die. The first fire forming round showed the brass fire-formed from the neck to halve way of the brass.
DSC_0010_zpsi6krrvcu.jpg


I used the MP200 15 gn with maze-meal for the second time as well, and run it through the full length 404 sizer.

P1011467_zpsrwljjwbk.jpg

The third time I re-load 71 gn S335 and a 400 gn cast bullet to shoot . This ensured a fully formed .375 H&H Magnum brass fitting in my 404 Jeffery rifle.

P1011469_zps6h2nu1or.jpg

P1011472_zpseepmgvwu.jpg


Phase Two:
I cut the fired formed brass open , as well as a standard .375 H&H Magnum brass and a standard 404 Jeffery brass.
P1011494_zpso3cx0tzl.jpg


This was done to take measurements of how the brass flow happened. I made use of a veneer to take some measurements.
P1011523_zpsgytxenda.jpg
Figuur5_zpscfwsng0k.jpg


P1011524_zpssfgcmecz.jpg


Measuring:
Figure4_zpssru1odmx.jpg


Figure3_zpsxoezomle.jpg


Figure2_zpscgfjj9tg.jpg


I should mention the part which was a concern to the "clever" persons was the part above the belt. In the photo it seems as if the brass bulged out...when holding the brass in your hand this is not evident.
After the experiment I did shoot this brass a lot of times in the tunnel at the safe as well as on the BASA shooting days. This is two years + now and I still re-load this fire-formed brass and shoot it frequently. So far no cracks, head separations, blow outs, blow-ups, nothing the "clever all knowledgeable people " warned me about.

I did mentioned that it is good to posses a lot of theoretical knowledge, but it is even better to posses practical, hands on skills and knowledge.

As pointed out, at no stage was there any dangerous procedures done, since 15 gn of MP 200 stuffed with maze-meal can not in any situation pose danger when following these procedures...

I hope you enjoyed this thread....any inputs are more than welcome....

I did not remove the belt, the brass flows exponentially ...the belt does not make a difference when it fire-formed in the 404 Jeffery chamber. No head-spacing problems, primer pockets are normal, no primer pops out even when I load a full load and shoot the BASA shooting days, as mentioned before, I still re-load this brass and shoot full loads with Impala bullets, cast bullets and any other bullets I use in my 404 Jeffery rifle..

The 404 Jeffery caliber did get extremely popular the past two years, brass are available in most gun shops , I bought new Hornady brass and still re-load the 375/404 brass...

The main objective is to create a data basis regarding specific procedures to follow in regards to:

1) Creating brass for scarce caliber rifles ( Martini Henry brass)

2) Converting standard caliber brass to another standard /re-formed brass for a different caliber. .375 H&H Magnum brass to .375 Ruger brass/ 8x68 S brass to .375 Ruger brass.

3) Perfecting different methods/procedures that will be able to be replicated safely by fellow members.

4) Documenting every step through video clips/photos.

This is what we want to achieve and create

needed some brass to to shoot while practicing and do not want to use my new Hornady brass.
Step I
Anneal the brass .375 H&H Magnum brass.

20170523_163700_zps5qntqlpu.jpg


Step 2
Prime the brass.

Step 3
Resize the brass with a 404 Jeffery full length sizer. To make the experiment interesting I used 30 gn of FFg black powder just to see how it will work. I then fill the brass up with maize-meal, using a dowl to really press the maize-meal down as compact as possible. I then load it into the 404 Jeffery chamber and pull the trigger.The top part, the first three centimeter blow out.
20170523_172721_zpsy6fmgame.jpg

20170523_163925_zpsln1bv7b6.jpg


20170523_165515_zpsmgzxeftg.jpg


At the shooting tunnel, ready to do the first fire forming step...

Step 4
Fire the brass:
20170523_163807_zpsdz8czr4z.jpg


Step 5
Re-load , this time I used 50 gn of S335 and a cast bullet of 380 gn.
20170523_192510_zpsbzsdexpg.jpg


20170523_165553_zpslk6pyvwb.jpg

Step 6
Brass fire -formed to 404 Jeffery:
I did not manage to take a photo of the full sized fire formed brass...will do so when getting back to the Kluis.
Here is how it looks after fire forming is completed ...photos of previous experiment:

End result:

P1011472_zpseepmgvwu%201_zpsrpk3qjmo.jpg


Conclusion:
FFg black powder 30 gn does not fire form brass as efficient as MP200, 15 gn there off.

Black powder soiled the brass ...while MP200 keep the brass clean.

After the last step, where I used 50 gn of S335 and a cast bullet of 380 gn I still had to use a full load of S335 to ensure a fully blown out 404 Jeffery brass from the .375 H&H Magnum brass...

Next time I will use MP 200 from the start..
Dear Gert....you raped that poor, innocent .375H&H cases..... repeated and deliberately..... now we know, it can be done.

I still have a box of 200 RWS .404 Jeffrey cartridges, 400 gr Woodleigh soft point, I will bring in may 2021 to avoid further assaults.

Nontheless, again, I am deeply impressed about your craftsmanship.....!!!

(y)(y)(y)

HWL
 

Gert Odendaal

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Dear Gert....you raped that poor, innocent .375H&H cases..... repeated and deliberately..... now we know, it can be done.

I still have a box of 200 RWS .404 Jeffrey cartridges, 400 gr Woodleigh soft point, I will bring in may 2021 to avoid further assaults.

Nontheless, again, I am deeply impressed about your craftsmanship.....!!!

(y)(y)(y)

HWL
HWL, I really would like to take all the credit for the .375H&H Magnum fire form to 404 Jeffery project. But it just would not be possible without the vast knowledge and experience of Johan Greyling , owner of JS Gunsmithing shop...I still need to meet a person who has more knowledge about Gunsmithing than Johan Greyling..
I perceive the .375 H&H Magnum brass cartridge as the single most versatile brass to fire form in every possible caliber to fit a large group of calibers into..the 404 Jeffery is the only other caliber that has been fire formed/used to create other calibers since it`s inception in 1904/5. All the Short magnums came from the 404 Jeffery parent case ..

HWL, thank you for the 404 Jeff ammo, it surely is much appreciated.....I have got hold of one of Pierre van der Walt`s medium caliber books for you and is still hunting the first Dangerous Game book on calibers for you...

Will get one for you , for sure ...here is a photo of the medium caliber book for you:

Cover-African-MEDIUM-Game-Cartridges.jpg
 
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colorado

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I get 200 fps increased velocity with my 375 Weatherby with both 300 grain A-Frames and 350g Woodleighs and like the 375 H&H AI it will shoot 375 H&H factory ammo as well. To many it may seem unnecessary and I don't disagree with you. But in that vein the 300 Win mag, the 7mm magnums, the 280 Rem AI and many other cartridges are unnecessary as well.
 

Gert Odendaal

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I think the majority of members just feel that is unnecessary to ream a standard .375 H&H Magnum to a Ackley Improved if you have to invest a lot of money to do it..Ivor and me are fortunate since it will cost him and me nothing at all, we will do the reaming our selves in the Gunsmith Shop..he has the reloading dies and I have the reamer, we both has access to both items and will cost absolute nothing to do the conversion...but I will be clear on the fact that I would not have done it at all if I had to invest a lot of money to do it ...I am extremely fortunate to received the Ackley reameras a gift from Dave here on the forum..it really provided me with this great opportunity to do such a project....(y)
 

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I think you will love it! Congrats
Colorado, thank you kindly ..please tell me more about the type of hunts you do with it , especially about the "bullet weight /grain band " you used when working out loads for your rifle ? Since it is a 1:12 twist I know it will handle a heavy bullet..but I am curios to know what my chances are to download to lighter grain bullets ( if I can find one with great BC ) as well ..I always like to find a "bullet weight band for a rifle the lightest to the heaviest bullet to shoot accurate " it makes for a more versatile rifle to use ...
 

colorado

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Hi I've shot 250g (A-Frames) 300g (A-Frames) 300g Partitions, and 350g HD Woodeligh Softpoints. I haven't taken it elk hunting but got a nice Alaskan brown bear with it (300g A-Frame) and my youngest son got a nice black bear in New Mexico (also 300g A-Frame)

a3W7qZ8.jpg
msvl13x.jpg
 
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Gert Odendaal

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Beautiful bear ..for sure...something I wanted to know for a long time now..do hunters eat the bear`s meat like we do antelope meat when we hunt? It seems the conversion is going to give all the advantage to the heavier grain bullets ..
 

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