IBM to help confiscate guns

[Neil Molendyk]

Alberta regs make no mention of requiring to present a PAL either. Never forget that John Horgan is in the same sleeping bag as Justin Turdeau, on many fronts. All the RCMP officers involved in the High River confiscation were brought in from out of province I've been told. The Alberta government has commissioned a study into the feasibility of a provincial police force. It should be coming out soon unless this Covid runs interference. The major cities here have already have their own police forces, Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge and Medicine Hat come to mind. The RCMP only seem to be in small towns and rural areas. They seem to get their marching orders from Ottawa and Turdeau's office. Time for change.

 

[Chago]

We need to stop saying liberals liberals liberals. Because our conservatives are equally full of shit and at fault. They have been playing this game since I was a kid. Liberals get into power and add 10 new gun laws. Then conservative come in and take off 5 leaving 5 there. And we all go phew they saved us. Then next time liberals are back 10 new ones and it continues. The conservatives had a majority in the last term and did fuck all with it. They could have ended the entire game. But they didn't. You know why?

Because they love this. Because we are gonna keep panicking. And we keep donating our money to them to "save us". And we keep campaigning and voting for them to "save us". And the liberals are doing the exact same thing but for the opposite crowd. The truth is they are playing this game together. And making sure their bases keep paying the bills for them. I'm sick of both of them.

Our American neighbors don't have this problem. Yes they have a liberal party too who want to take it away. But their conservative party fights to the death for gun laws. And have zero compromise. There NRA actually means something. Our versions of NRA have less money and power then my towns chamber of commerce.... My towns population is less than 4000 people...

You'll see. Of the these new laws the conservatives are gonna come in and save a couple models abandoning the rest. And we will saw phew again. They saved us. And same shit will happen again in a few years.

 

[Chago]

Alberta regs make no mention of requiring to present a PAL either. Never forget that John Horgan is in the same sleeping bag as Justin Turdeau, on many fronts. All the RCMP officers involved in the High River confiscation were brought in from out of province I've been told. The Alberta government has commissioned a study into the feasibility of a provincial police force. It should be coming out soon unless this Covid runs interference. The major cities here have already have their own police forces, Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge and Medicine Hat come to mind. The RCMP only seem to be in small towns and rural areas. They seem to get their marching orders from Ottawa and Turdeau's office. Time for change.

Are you convinced your provincial police will be any better ? We have OPP... I don't see a difference.

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Are you convinced your provincial police will be any better ? We have OPP... I don't see a difference.

Not convinced, no. But if they hire staff that have even a slight clue about rural lifestyle and aren't taking orders from Ottawa I hope that there's hope. There are some good officers in the RCMP now that I have run across but I suspect its the senior appointed officers that are pushing Ottawa's agenda. And if Alberta can choose the own Chief Firearms Officer that comes from a firearms owners background, not a police background, that has to be a positive.

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

We need to stop saying liberals liberals liberals. Because our conservatives are equally full of shit and at fault. They have been playing this game since I was a kid. Liberals get into power and add 10 new gun laws. Then conservative come in and take off 5 leaving 5 there. And we all go phew they saved us. Then next time liberals are back 10 new ones and it continues. The conservatives had a majority in the last term and did fuck all with it. They could have ended the entire game. But they didn't. You know why?

Because they love this. Because we are gonna keep panicking. And we keep donating our money to them to "save us". And we keep campaigning and voting for them to "save us". And the liberals are doing the exact same thing but for the opposite crowd. The truth is they are playing this game together. And making sure their bases keep paying the bills for them. I'm sick of both of them.

Our American neighbors don't have this problem. Yes they have a liberal party too who want to take it away. But their conservative party fights to the death for gun laws. And have zero compromise. There NRA actually means something. Our versions of NRA have less money and power then my towns chamber of commerce.... My towns population is less than 4000 people...

You'll see. Of the these new laws the conservatives are gonna come in and save a couple models abandoning the rest. And we will saw phew again. They saved us. And same shit will happen again in a few years.

Because every American politician cares only for his self interest, the good politicians that might actually do somthing don't get elected because their personalities don't line up with the emotional beliefs of the masses. The days of American politics were the voter applies logic and thinks of what his act will do in the future is over, now the only thing that's important is that they get told what THEY want to hear, and that they like how "personable" the politician is.

 

[Brent in Az]

Trumps ex economic advisor, Gary Cohn, just took a job with IBM as Vice Chairman

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Because every American politician cares only for his self interest, the good politicians that might actually do somthing don't get elected because their personalities don't line up with the emotional beliefs of the masses. The days of American politics were the voter applies logic and thinks of what his act will do in the future is over, now the only thing that's important is that they get told what THEY want to hear, and that they like how "personable" the politician is.

@Thumper Mcgee
Thank God for Australian politics. We actually have an elected independent party called the SHOOTERS, FISHERS AND FARMERS party. This group has the interest in shooters and the rural communities and is able to stick it to the government. Being an independent party it doesn't have to worry if liberal or labour party is in government. It has been known to block legislation to get the current party to make concessions to what they need.
We want this if we c ant have it we WILL block your new legislation. A bit of give and take by both and everyone is happy.
Every country with hunters should have a political party similar to ours that keep the bastard at least a bit honest.
Bov

 

[Cam Moon]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen That wouldn't have worked for the latest thing that Trudeau did in Canada. He pushed it through as an order in council while government was prorogued. No debate, no discussion, nothing. He had 100% full say and full power. That's bullshit, especially with a minority government, that he could do something like that without any opposition even being possible!

 

[Thumper Mcgee]

Trumps ex economic advisor, Gary Cohn, just took a job

@Thumper Mcgee
Thank God for Australian politics. We actually have an elected independent party called the SHOOTERS, FISHERS AND FARMERS party. This group has the interest in shooters and the rural communities and is able to stick it to the government. Being an independent party it doesn't have to worry if liberal or labour party is in government. It has been known to block legislation to get the current party to make concessions to what they need.
We want this if we c ant have it we WILL block your new legislation. A bit of give and take by both and everyone is happy.
Every country with hunters should have a political party similar to ours that keep the bastard at least a bit honest.
Bov

Thats exactly what we need... but sadly it won't happen. The nra is about as close as we will get to it but there all talk and no play

 

[MarkB]

Lets not forget Trudopes right hand enforcer Mr Blair who was a TO Police officer for many years. He should realize that legal gun owners are not the problem. Trudope is not our PM he is our Dictator. Proven many times over, those who do not bow down to his exact orders are replaced. True what others have posted, even a conservative majority did little in support of legal firearm owners. It was all lip service. I do think that the CCFR and its lawsuit may be our only saving grace. IBM will find a nice program to steal our guns and with the Libs printing money that has no worth any cost will be OK.

MB

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Thats exactly what we need... but sadly it won't happen. The nra is about as close as we will get to it but there all talk and no play

@Thumper Mcgee
Mate If'n you think it won't happen it won't BUT if you do something about it instead of say in it won't then evil will triumph.
Surely to God there's someone with the balls and brains in Canada that could stand up to the government with all the shooters and rural people in your beautiful country.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen That wouldn't have worked for the latest thing that Trudeau did in Canada. He pushed it through as an order in council while government was prorogued. No debate, no discussion, nothing. He had 100% full say and full power. That's bullshit, especially with a minority government, that he could do something like that without any opposition even being possible!

@Cam Moon
That sure as shit wouldn't have happened over here.
You need a political party to stand up to the prick. A minority can't legally impose shit in a democracy.
Bob

 

[OxfordTheCat]

@Cam Moon
That sure as shit wouldn't have happened over here.
You need a political party to stand up to the prick. A minority can't legally impose shit in a democracy.
Bob

They're being a little selective with the facts of the matter:

The OICs are just adding additional firearms to already existing legislation that has been in place in its current form since 1991, and the move is extraordinarily popular including a significant percentage of the population that would typically vote Conservative, and a portion of firearms owners as well (myself included, if I'm being honest - as I have no use for and no desire to see the operator-wannabe culture, or the cancer that is US gun culture creeping into Canada). The Liberals have a minority government, but the changes have support from three of the other four parties, with the NDP, Bloc, and Greens actually all calling for more stringent regulations than the current government has introduced.

As much as I am loath to wade into a politics thread on what should be a hunting forum, I thought it necessary to put some context to the discussion: Gun control and the recent round of prohibitions are immensely popular with Canadians, as is support for a national prohibition on handguns (which wasn't included in the recent changes to law, which many thought it would be), including plenty of the gun owning population in my experience. It's probably the most popular legislation in memory that isn't tied to COVID financial support, with something like ~80% supporting the ban (and 70% favouring a complete ban on handguns).

All in all, and with a few exceptions here and there, I think Canada gets it just about right when it comes to firearms legislation, personally.

Though it's likely going to be politically impossible in the next little bit given the most recent shooting in NZ, if anything hopefully Canada can be used as an example for Australia to shift toward in the future and reduce some of the restrictions in place in your neck of the woods.

 

[MarkB]

Canada has only real 2 parties. Only one the conservatives slightly back firearms owners. Our biggest problem (according to me) is the split of Canadians. Rural people are getting less and metropolitan people are increasing. Look at shots of last election, all conservative in almost 3 western Provinces, crazy NDP in lower BC, then Ont, and eastern provinces are mostly liberal. Our system gives higher priority to Ontario's dense population. Most Canadians are DUMB to Canadas real gun issue. If they were educated to see that legal owners are NOT the issue we would not be in this situation. Its Trudope and his paid off bias media that makes people agree with crazy laws, however enacted. On the whole gun owners are few in Canada, even greater are gun owners that would say yuk even if their mouth was full of sh//t. Many hunters spend $100 on gas to go hunt but will not spend any to join a pro gun organization. We are our own worst enemy, but in reality there is not much we can do.

BTW Canada is not currently in a democracy, we have a dictator.

MB

 

[Neil Molendyk]

Bill Blair was the Chief of Police for metro Toronto and as a Member of Parliament is working in collusion with Justin Trudeau, he refuses to recognize or accept the fact that the gun violence in his home town is perpetuated by gangs using for the most part illegal firearms smuggled in from the United States. But stopping that would offend the gangs and ner do wells in our society so they rather go after the law abiding citizens as the easy to pick low hanging fruit. Meanwhile the complacent majority of Canadian citizens will continue to turn a blind eye to what is going on with their "Guns are scary and dangerous" mentality. Maybe they would wake up if the same government would declare an OIC banning more than one vehicle per household based on the premise that more than one is not necessary and is contributing to climate change.

 

[Cam Moon]

@OxfordTheCat I respectfully disagree. What law was put in place in 1991 that this OIC is simply adding to? Are you referring to C68?
As far as the high percentage of Canadians that are in support of it, I think what you were forgetting to mention is that these people are being deceived! Obviously people are going to be in support of something that makes their streets safer, assists the police, reduces shootings (and crime in general), and gives their children a safer place to live, and at the same time has little to no effect on hunters and sportsmen. It sounds like a win-win to me. But that's not what's happening. I also can't believe that a firearm owner would be in support of something like this. Can you explain that? I understand if these types of firearms don't appeal to you. I don't have any of the black listed firearms myself either..... Or do I? Who knows? A person would have to check the list several times a day to know for sure. So what's next? Handguns? Do you own any of those? Maybe that doesn't matter to you either. And then after that? All semi autos? And then anything that shoots over 3,000 fps? Lever guns and pumps? Soon we are left with single shots. Then no center fires. Then no shotguns. Then nothing. You don't need a firearm anyways right? You can buy your meat at Safeway right? And nobody needs to shoot for recreation. Take up golf or ping pong instead. The point is, the way that this went about happening was wrong and should have never happened in a true democracy. And if we don't stand TOGETHER, as a UNITED FRONT, we are doomed. Even NON-firearms owners should be standing up and saying that this is wrong and we will not accept it. Who's to say what's next? No more red vehicles allowed because statistically there's more red vehicles caught speeding than any others? But hey, if they can spin it in such a way that it makes everyone believe that it is safe and for the best they'll still have the majority support it.
Who cares? I don't own a red vehicle anyways!

 

[Chago]

@Bob Nelson 35Whelen That wouldn't have worked for the latest thing that Trudeau did in Canada. He pushed it through as an order in council while government was prorogued. No debate, no discussion, nothing. He had 100% full say and full power. That's bullshit, especially with a minority government, that he could do something like that without any opposition even being possible!

What has the conservatives or the NDP done about it since? Literally nothing. I can't even confirm that it ever came up in the house again. Maybe some unknown member brought it up on one of the sessions where no one was their. Not even C-SPAN was filming. Because they really don't care. That being said I've received probably 50 emails though and Facebook invites from consecutive members asking for my "support" to fight these changes. They need my money to stand up in the house and tell the truth? Pretty sure that's free. Or do they need to pay per minute to talk in that place.

 

[Chago]

What part of tor

They're being a little selective with the facts of the matter:

The OICs are just adding additional firearms to already existing legislation that has been in place in its current form since 1991, and the move is extraordinarily popular including a significant percentage of the population that would typically vote Conservative, and a portion of firearms owners as well (myself included, if I'm being honest - as I have no use for and no desire to see the operator-wannabe culture, or the cancer that is US gun culture creeping into Canada). The Liberals have a minority government, but the changes have support from three of the other four parties, with the NDP, Bloc, and Greens actually all calling for more stringent regulations than the current government has introduced.

As much as I am loath to wade into a politics thread on what should be a hunting forum, I thought it necessary to put some context to the discussion: Gun control and the recent round of prohibitions are immensely popular with Canadians, as is support for a national prohibition on handguns (which wasn't included in the recent changes to law, which many thought it would be), including plenty of the gun owning population in my experience. It's probably the most popular legislation in memory that isn't tied to COVID financial support, with something like ~80% supporting the ban (and 70% favouring a complete ban on handguns).

All in all, and with a few exceptions here and there, I think Canada gets it just about right when it comes to firearms legislation, personally.

Though it's likely going to be politically impossible in the next little bit given the most recent shooting in NZ, if anything hopefully Canada can be used as an example for Australia to shift toward in the future and reduce some of the restrictions in place in your neck of the woods.

They're being a little selective with the facts of the matter:

The OICs are just adding additional firearms to already existing legislation that has been in place in its current form since 1991, and the move is extraordinarily popular including a significant percentage of the population that would typically vote Conservative, and a portion of firearms owners as well (myself included, if I'm being honest - as I have no use for and no desire to see the operator-wannabe culture, or the cancer that is US gun culture creeping into Canada). The Liberals have a minority government, but the changes have support from three of the other four parties, with the NDP, Bloc, and Greens actually all calling for more stringent regulations than the current government has introduced.

As much as I am loath to wade into a politics thread on what should be a hunting forum, I thought it necessary to put some context to the discussion: Gun control and the recent round of prohibitions are immensely popular with Canadians, as is support for a national prohibition on handguns (which wasn't included in the recent changes to law, which many thought it would be), including plenty of the gun owning population in my experience. It's probably the most popular legislation in memory that isn't tied to COVID financial support, with something like ~80% supporting the ban (and 70% favouring a complete ban on handguns).

All in all, and with a few exceptions here and there, I think Canada gets it just about right when it comes to firearms legislation, personally.

Though it's likely going to be politically impossible in the next little bit given the most recent shooting in NZ, if anything hopefully Canada can be used as an example for Australia to shift toward in the future and reduce some of the restrictions in place in your neck of the woods.

What part of Toronto do you live in? Or is it Vancouver? Condo life getting to you? This is popular amongst Canadians cause there fed the same horse shit you just tried to feed us. You know what else is popular amongst those same Canadians. Not allowing hunting in Africa. What's your position on that? Regardless of gun ownership or not. Are you of the opinion that spending $2-3b buying back guns that have in over 50 years attributed to less then 10 murders? Imagine what $2-3b would do if you took $1b and gave it to our borders to stop the illegal guns coming in. Imagine what $1b investment would do in poor neighborhoods where 99% of the violence is. $1b!!!!! Jane and finch would be the new time square. Use your head. We are spending billions to lower murder by 0.001%. When those billions if spent where it actually mattered could lower it massively. Get your head out of your arse.

 

[OxfordTheCat]

@OxfordTheCat I respectfully disagree. What law was put in place in 1991 that this OIC is simply adding to? Are you referring to C68?
As far as the high percentage of Canadians that are in support of it, I think what you were forgetting to mention is that these people are being deceived! Obviously people are going to be in support of something that makes their streets safer, assists the police, reduces shootings (and crime in general), and gives their children a safer place to live, and at the same time has little to no effect on hunters and sportsmen. It sounds like a win-win to me. But that's not what's happening. I also can't believe that a firearm owner would be in support of something like this. Can you explain that? I understand if these types of firearms don't appeal to you. I don't have any of the black listed firearms myself either..... Or do I? Who knows? A person would have to check the list several times a day to know for sure. So what's next? Handguns? Do you own any of those? Maybe that doesn't matter to you either. And then after that? All semi autos? And then anything that shoots over 3,000 fps? Lever guns and pumps? Soon we are left with single shots. Then no center fires. Then no shotguns. Then nothing. You don't need a firearm anyways right? You can buy your meat at Safeway right? And nobody needs to shoot for recreation. Take up golf or ping pong instead. The point is, the way that this went about happening was wrong and should have never happened in a true democracy. And if we don't stand TOGETHER, as a UNITED FRONT, we are doomed. Even NON-firearms owners should be standing up and saying that this is wrong and we will not accept it. Who's to say what's next? No more red vehicles allowed because statistically there's more red vehicles caught speeding than any others? But hey, if they can spin it in such a way that it makes everyone believe that it is safe and for the best they'll still have the majority support it.
Who cares? I don't own a red vehicle anyways!

I was mistaken - it's actually C-17: The original Firearms Act. Kim Campbell and the PC's doing, and the first round of 'prohibition by name' and OICs in 1991.
C-68 came later, with more of the same.

And as far as the slippery slope argument, I'm afraid I don't buy into it: All political parties in Canada are supportive of firearms for traditional sporting purposes. The idea that all sporting firearms are going to be banned is, frankly, nonsense.

For me the biggest threat to legal gun ownership, if such a challenge would ever occur, is the awful culture that comes associated with the AR fanboys, plate carriers at the range, bug-out bag, SHTF-zombie-apocalypse brigade. Facebook, and social media age just goes further to reinforce that the guys most obsessed with them, are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near them. Count me out.

 

[Cam Moon]

@OxfordTheCat Ok, I can understand that kind of thing isn't for you. I don't own an AR myself. But I don't hold anything against somebody that does.....Unless they're not using it responsibly. As far as you not believing anything regarding this slippery slope of sporting firearms.... Why don't you? If they can get rid of one, why not another? And what makes a shooting sport that you enjoy better than a shooting sport that somebody else enjoys?