Help Finding 450 #2 Nitro Express 3 1/2" Dies And/Or Ammo

[Bowman1066]

I have just acquired my first double rifle! An old English masterpiece! I have managed to find some brass, but I am struggling to find a good set of dies. I would love to find a few commercially loaded rounds as well. I wonder if anyone has either and would be willing to sell to me. I am excited about shooting this thing, so any help or ideas in finding any of this, would be very much appreciated! Thanks for your help.

 

[SkullKeeper]

You can cancel Christmas on finding commercial ammo on a shelf , although you can contact some of the few specialty loading companies and they should be able to help. Best bet for a set of dies is CH4D in Ohio (don’t forget the shell holder ! )
Just curious - what double did you find?

 

[Bowman1066]

Thanks, Skullkeeper for your reply. I spoke to CH4D this morning and they sold their last set of dies 2 weeks ago. 18-24 months to get more! It sounds like there are a couple of companies that could custom make dies in a much shorter time frame. This might be the route I will have to go, but I thought it was worth reaching out. I found a Charles Boswell.

 

[SkullKeeper]

I will keep a look out for you as well. PM me for load data if you would like. There are several others on here that can help with data as well.

Fantastic rifle - what a beauty ! Have you researched the year it was made?

 

[Bowman1066]

I appreciate it. I believe Ken Owen worked up a load for this rifle using 91 Grs of R-15 and a Hornaday 500 grn bullet, but I would certainly be open to suggestions, if I can accumulate all the pieces needed to build the bullets! I have not done a whole load of research on the rifle, but I believe it was made in1907.

 

[SkullKeeper]

Just based on initial thoughts upon seeing this piece I would not argue about 1907 or thereabouts.
My hunting load is 92.0 grains of RL15 using a North Fork 500 gr bullet @ 2135 FPS and it shoots this beautifully (North Fork bullets are bore riding and I’d highly suggest them for these older barrels- just my 2 cents worth) For practice loads I too use the much older Hornady cup/core soft nose 500 gr bullets with a 89-90 gr charge of RL15.

 

[Tintin]

I found a Charles Boswell.

View attachment 555282

Congrats - what a ripper!

There is a dealer in Australia that stocks some CH4D - and have sometimes got stock when CH4D don't - but I've just checked and no luck on this occasion.

 

[Bowman1066]

Thankyou Tintin for your efforts on my behalf! I am sure I will ultimately find everything I need, but I certainly appreciate others involving themselves in the search.

 

[deewayne2003]

@Bowman1066

I found a place in Australia with brass

450 #2 Nitro Expess 3 1/2'' Unprimed Brass Cases

450 Nitro Express 3 1/4' Unprimed Brass Cases One of the great range of obsolete ammunition cases and dies available from Northern Shooters Supplies and growing.

www.northernshooterssupplies.com.au

They say no international shipping; however I am headed down under on the 15th.

 

[swoobie]

That's an awesome double...

 

[deewayne2003]

Also a potential source of custom made dies is Whidden Gun Works of Nashville Georgia

Custom Reloading Dies - Whidden Gunworks

Custom Dies We have currently suspended the acceptance of new custom die orders. All orders currently in process will be fulfilled as promised. Whether

www.whiddengunworks.com

 

[vette447]

Beautiful rifle. Hearty Congrats on a great purchase.

I have a friend that I believe will have what you need. I will make him aware of this thread. Good luck to you.

 

[vette447]

BTW. I believe that rifle was likely engraved by the incomparable Harry Kell. Very nice

 

[Bowman1066]

BTW. I believe that rifle was likely engraved by the incomparable Harry Kell. Very nice

Thankyou for this. I would certainly be interested talking to your friend. I don't know anything about Harry Kell. I also have a Boswell live pigeon shotgun with beautiful engraving too. I have a couple of pages from the Boswell gun ledgers and it would appear that he was quite fond of this 450 #2 NE caliber!

 

[robullelk]

I have the twin to your boswell in .450 3 1/4 and a case identical to yours with the round brass corners. Mine also has the sideclips. I also have a boswell pigeon gun that was made within a few serial numbers of it. The case label on mine is different with the lion and unicorn scene. There are some differences. Yours looks like a higher grade gun than mine with (I think) chopper lump barrels and the proper fore-end lever release.

 

[Bowman1066]

I have the twin to your boswell in .450 3 1/4 and a case identical to yours with the round brass corners. Mine also has the sideclips. I also have a boswell pigeon gun that was made within a few serial numbers of it. The case label on mine is different with the lion and unicorn scene. There are some differences. Yours looks like a higher grade gun than mine with (I think) chopper lump barrels and the proper fore-end lever release.

What I great old gun. Thanks for sharing. The label on mine is a reproduction, so I am not sure that means all that much! What year do you think yours is?

 

[robullelk]

The serial number is 15 thousand and change which I think puts it at 1912. Maybe some readers have access to records that can pinpoint our rifles. I would like to point out that yours has a dollshead that many folks associate with a higher end gun, whereas mine has the round cross bolt. I have handloads using h4350 and Hornady softs and solids that go 2150 and 2150 respectively and print touching at " "yards - but don't want to provide more detail else I might start a fire. I have not shot the factory hornadys yet but the factory Kynacos print to same point of aim as do woodleighs with reloader 15 and wads. I was fortunate to get the rifle with the above information when I purchased it, but at least for mine most of the info is in the Graham book. Maybe some of this information will be helpful for designing loads with your #2., but if Ken has it dialed already, then you are way ahead of the game. I think I picked up your rifle or a rifle very much like it some years ago. It was too short for me - I recall 14 1/4 with pad. At that time it had the RCBS dies it its original RCBS box in the case. One thing I might note is mine does not have a cheek-piece like yours - a feature I really like. My gun comes up great for me with a 14 7/8ths" pull with 1/2" original pad. It weighs between 10 3/4 - 11 pounds with Trader Keith's snapcaps, and for whatever reason the recoil seems very mild to me. I was also able to order a Wesley Richards sling - from LL (?) at Wesley Richards - with the original style sling hooks (not to be mistaken for winchester sling hooks which don't work). Hokay maybe tmi. Give me a shout if you want to chat.

 

[Thomas Rutledge]

If Ken Owen did the regulation load I would stay right there. Congrats.

 

[Bowman1066]

The serial number is 15 thousand and change which I think puts it at 1912. Maybe some readers have access to records that can pinpoint our rifles. I would like to point out that yours has a dollshead that many folks associate with a higher end gun, whereas mine has the round cross bolt. I have handloads using h4350 and Hornady softs and solids that go 2150 and 2150 respectively and print touching at " "yards - but don't want to provide more detail else I might start a fire. I have not shot the factory hornadys yet but the factory Kynacos print to same point of aim as do woodleighs with reloader 15 and wads. I was fortunate to get the rifle with the above information when I purchased it, but at least for mine most of the info is in the Graham book. Maybe some of this information will be helpful for designing loads with your #2., but if Ken has it dialed already, then you are way ahead of the game. I think I picked up your rifle or a rifle very much like it some years ago. It was too short for me - I recall 14 1/4 with pad. At that time it had the RCBS dies it its original RCBS box in the case. One thing I might note is mine does not have a cheek-piece like yours - a feature I really like. My gun comes up great for me with a 14 7/8ths" pull with 1/2" original pad. It weighs between 10 3/4 - 11 pounds with Trader Keith's snapcaps, and for whatever reason the recoil seems very mild to me. I was also able to order a Wesley Richards sling - from LL (?) at Wesley Richards - with the original style sling hooks (not to be mistaken for winchester sling hooks which don't work). Hokay maybe tmi. Give me a shout if you want to chat.

The serial # on mine is in the 15600's. So I think yours is earlier than you think. I have attached a couple of pages from the Boswell ledgers that I pulled from various Boswell guns listed on Guns International. Apparently the guy that bought the Boswell name will provide the page from the ledger with your guns serial number for $50.

I believe, from your description that the gun you handled was the one I ended up with. I would certainly like the opportunity to chat with you. I was hoping to have had a little more joy in finding rounds and components. I think I have found someone to custom build the dies, but I need fired rounds from my gun to provided to them! Again, any help would be appreciated!

I am headed on a Roosevelt weeklong elk bow hunt on Sunday, so it might take me a little longer to respond. I certainly appreciate all the information and advice that has been offered so far. Unfortunately, a lot of the lead have been 'dead ends'

 

[robullelk]

You are right. I am in the 15,200 + range which I think would put me around 1906. Thank you for those records.

Here's an old link to the gun (yours ?) I handled: https://www.hallowellco.com/charles_boswell____boxlock_double rifle.html

Attached is a pic of my gun in all its glory on the back porch this morning. It has 26" barrels. Little warm and rainy for elk but they were bugling last night.

I'll ask around to see if I can scrounge a few #2s for you. I wonder if a chamber cast might work for the die maker you found. Folks on this forum might be able to chime in on this.

I will be in africa in a few weeks so yes we might miss hooking up. Good luck on your archery hunt.