Help Deciding on Double Rifle Chambering

[AES]

Still leaning 500. Can’t wait to try them all and make a decision. Will report back after feb 23 with my decision and a build spec sheet. Quite excited and already dreading the wait / anticipation for the rifle.

 

[Troubleshooter]

Are there any statistics on ballistics, energy and stuff for the 470 vs. the 500? I'd certainly say those are 2 of the best choices since a box of 20 rounds can be bought for an ok price

Yes; I would recommend perusing The Chamberlain Development Cartridge Comparison Guide.

Not sure what "and stuff" you seek, and I'm not going to transcribe the entire book here, but this is what they say specifically for Hornady factory loads in those two calibers:

Cartridge	Bullet weight (gr)	Muzzle velocity (fps)	Muzzle energy (ft-lbs)	Momentum	Sectional density	Recoil Energy (ft-lbs) by rifle weight
						8 lbs.	11lbs.	14 lbs.
.470 NE	500	2150	5131	153.6	0.317	82.09	59.70	46.91
.500 NE	570	2150	5849.3	175.1	0.313	105.27	76.56	60.15

 

[SkullKeeper]

Though not very popular the 450#2 is a wonderful cartridge. For handloading the bullet selection is endless and using Reloader 15 powder the recoil is very tame. It’s an oddball but a truly wonderful oddball. Honestly if I was going nostalgia I would have to build a 476 Westley Richards- just because I’m a W.R.&Co fan. Enjoy the build !

 

[Opposite Pole]

Few years ago I went through the same process - my candidates were 500/416, 500/450, 470NE & 500NE. I wanted (not necessarily needed) a powerful big bore so narrowed it down to 470 & 500. Having previously hunted with 470 I knew for a fact I can tolerate the recoil. I visited Krieghoff in Ulm and fired both from otherwise identical rifles. To me the recoil didn’t feel much different but getting back on target with 500 took noticeably longer. Still unconvinced which one to get and having to pick one I ordered 470 based on wishy-washy idea that ammo is a little more accessible, and due to 500’s black powder origins, reloading of the 500 is a bit harder. I’m happy with my choice but I’m fairly sure I would have been equally happy with either of the other ones and I doubt any animal would ever notice the difference.

I have also ordered a second set of barrels in 9.3x74R. It is something I recommend. For not that much more money you end up with two rifles one of which you get to use much more frequently. Naturally smaller calibre barrels are much lighter so balance changes etc. but that’s a small tradeoff. In my rifle, due to weight of the receiver, shooting the 9.3 feels like 308Win. There are so many great medium and small bore calibres a double can be chambered in that you can surely find one that you’ll get to use a lot. It’s good fun and great practise too. You can scope the smaller set as well which further extends its usefulness. Krieghoff does the following as standard medium bore calibres in doubles: 7x57R, 7x65R, 308Win, 30-06, 30R Blaser, 8x57IRS, 8x75RS, 9.3x74R, and the rimmed 375H&H. I’m sure all the other makers offer similar choices.

 

[rigbymauser]

If 480grain @ 2100-2150 ft/sec is the goal the .450nitro would be my choice.

The .450 No2 is a great good cartridge and impressive looking as well. But bottlenecked cartridges in a double can be a downside. In my book straightwall cartridges only.

I know Arthur Neumann used a .577bpe for most of his elephantwork and disregarded his 10bore(I think he lost it or ruined it), but if buffalo is the goal for the upcomming purchase why not consider a .577bpe?. Lots of fun and yet a tremendous power. Beautiful classic cartridge that is easy lot for and cast bullets for too. If one double are in mind get a straightwall caliber where everything available or atleast can be ordered of the shelf. The .450nitro is practical logical choice particular if living in the US. If none-dangerous game hunting and one likes the feel heading of with a vintage double in a .500ex is a good choice. Lots of power and easy in the reloading dept. 470 nitro cases can easily be formed. The has been a few articals about hunters who brought their .500ex succesfully for buffalohunting in Africa. So 440grain @ 1750 ft/sec is leathal.

 

[AES]

Well, I ended going with 500NE. Now the wait begins. I went with a pretty uniques spec which I look forward to sharing. Thanks to everyone for the input.

 

[VertigoBE]

@AES : did you receive this double rifle yet? Care to share some pictures?

 

[AES]

@AES : did you receive this double rifle yet? Care to share some pictures?

Funny you should ask … it gets to me on Friday. Will post pics.

 

[John Telford]

Great now book an elephant hunt!

 

[Tanks]

Funny you should ask … it gets to me on Friday. Will post pics.

Congratulations.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Funny you should ask … it gets to me on Friday. Will post pics.

I have read this thread from start to finish. I know which caliber that you decided on, but what make of double decide on?

 

[AES]

I have read this thread from start to finish. I know which caliber that you decided on, but what make of double decide on?

I went with a Heym Model 88B, heavy bore .500 NE and am thrilled with how it came out. It is a weighty thing and a combination between that and a perfect fit will certainly eat up the recoil for years to come. In hand, the rifle feels like an incredibly well built, solid workhorse.

The thesis was pretty simple. Get enough gun to hunt anything and keep the costs reasonable by limiting embellishments; therefore removing any sense of “protecting” it v. hunting it hard. I like nice wood and that is place where I personally find it additive to spend on an upgraded blank. In this case, because I was intentionally forgoing engraving, case color was in order. They did a great job on the color - my preference is more blue hue v the browns and golds.

Here are my completely mediocre pictures that do not do the rifle justice. No photos altered. I will try to get some proper pics in natural light.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I went with a Heym Model 88B, heavy bore .500 NE and am thrilled with how it came out. It is a weighty thing and a combination between that and a perfect fit will certainly eat up the recoil for years to come. In hand, the rifle feels like an incredibly well built, solid workhorse.

The thesis was pretty simple. Get enough gun to hunt anything and keep the costs reasonable by limiting embellishments; therefore removing any sense of “protecting” it v. hunting it hard. I like nice wood and that is place where I personally find it additive to spend on an upgraded blank. In this case, because I was intentionally forgoing engraving, case color was in order. They did a great job on the color - my preference is more blue hue v the browns and golds.

Here are my completely mediocre pictures that do not do the rifle justice. No photos altered. I will try to get some proper pics in natural light.
View attachment 513678View attachment 513679View attachment 513680View attachment 513681View attachment 513681View attachment 513683View attachment 513687View attachment 513682

That is gorgeous, congratulations! You have a nice blend of colours there and I particularly like the rosettes on the top of the action. The checkering looks crisp and sharp too.

 

[Tanks]

I went with a Heym Model 88B, heavy bore .500 NE and am thrilled with how it came out. It is a weighty thing and a combination between that and a perfect fit will certainly eat up the recoil for years to come. In hand, the rifle feels like an incredibly well built, solid workhorse.
...

I have been very happy with my Heym 88B in .500 NE and it will keep being my workhorse for the next couple of years. Now, book an elephant hunt if you already have not done so.

 

[375er]

I love the elephant sculpture on the opening lever!

 

[Sourdough]

Beautiful. Congrats!

 

[Rare Breed]

Hi guys, I am in the process of ordering a new DR and have to decide on what I would like to chamber it in. This is not as easy of a decision as one might think given that I am trying to avoid caliber “overlap”. In making my decision and soliciting yours, the below must be taken into consideration . . .

- I have a 416 Rigby bolt that I absolutely adore and can cleanly take any huntable animal. Given this, there is no specific requirement to go bigger and, frankly, not really that many options to do so given modern loads
- Caliber selected needs to be able to be rationally used to hunt Elephant (no .303 British, please!)
- I will have a 500/465 at some point, so that can be eliminated
- I very much like the romantacism around the 450 3 1/4. Buying that would then make duplicative the rounds that were later introduced to replicate its performance? . . . The 470 NE, 500/460, 475NE, 470 Non2, 458 etc.
- Assume this will be my only DR and that it will not be scoped

I don’t know what else to say to guide your comments. I will try to respond to suggestions with what as I see as a downside to them.

My gut is to go .500NE but lead me as you will.

I have owned a 470, 450-400 and a 500 all NE. All will take anything on this earth. The 450-400 is the mildest. Not much felt recoil difference to me in the 500 versus 470. To me I prefer the 500 NE made by Westley Richards. To me Ken Owens taught me to use the mildest powder which is IMR3031 for regulation. In doing that, the 500 NE recoil does not bother me and is a true stopping rifle especially since you said no scope. I use a red dot. Shot it 15 shots yesterday at my farm

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Absolutely beautiful.

 

[HWL]

.450/400 3" NE..... because you can hunt Africa....... AND the test of the world!!!

HWL

 

[Rare Breed]

I went with a Heym Model 88B, heavy bore .500 NE and am thrilled with how it came out. It is a weighty thing and a combination between that and a perfect fit will certainly eat up the recoil for years to come. In hand, the rifle feels like an incredibly well built, solid workhorse.

The thesis was pretty simple. Get enough gun to hunt anything and keep the costs reasonable by limiting embellishments; therefore removing any sense of “protecting” it v. hunting it hard. I like nice wood and that is place where I personally find it additive to spend on an upgraded blank. In this case, because I was intentionally forgoing engraving, case color was in order. They did a great job on the color - my preference is more blue hue v the browns and golds.

Here are my completely mediocre pictures that do not do the rifle justice. No photos altered. I will try to get some proper pics in natural light.
View attachment 513678View attachment 513679View attachment 513680View attachment 513681View attachment 513681View attachment 513683View attachment 513687View attachment 513682

I love the elephant on the top with the colors…truly magnificent