Excuse my ignorance

AGNK

AH member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
31
I’ve been hunting since I was 14 (now 62)most all my hunts have been solo and with hunting mates or local hunters...not PH’s..



I’ve hunted mainly in OZ , red dear , Sambar, Rusa , etc ...some hunting in EU and few hunts in NZ...now looking towards Africa....

but....

I can only go by what I see on YouTube so excuse my ignorance....is ...that the PH does all the actual hunting and the client is just the “trigger man”which I have no problem with that....

But would it be to much to ask the PH to step back and be a “wing man” for use for a better term and allow the client to at least stalk the game using his own experience and hunting abilities....

Cheers
 

Kevin Peacocke

AH elite
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Messages
1,716
Reaction score
4,081
Location
Harare Zimbabwe
Media
59
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Cleveland Gun Club
Hunted
Zimbabwe, SouthAfrica
I’ve been hunting since I was 14 (now 62)most all my hunts have been solo and with hunting mates or local hunters...not PH’s..



I’ve hunted mainly in OZ , red dear , Sambar, Rusa , etc ...some hunting in EU and few hunts in NZ...now looking towards Africa....

but....

I can only go by what I see on YouTube so excuse my ignorance....is ...that the PH does all the actual hunting and the client is just the “trigger man”which I have no problem with that....

But would it be to much to ask the PH to step back and be a “wing man” for use for a better term and allow the client to at least stalk the game using his own experience and hunting abilities....

Cheers
Surely it depends upon where you are and what skill set you have relative to the area and game? I don't think I would want to take on a buff hunt without an expert PH directing things. Wing man on impala!
 

mark-hunter

AH legend
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
2,128
Reaction score
2,824
Media
25
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
I can only go by what I see on YouTube so excuse my ignorance....is ...that the PH does all the actual hunting and the client is just the “trigger man”which I have no problem with that....

I have been twice on safari, and never had a feeling that I am a trigger man. I see a PH, as advisory, and backup man, and logistics. entire safari is actually a teamwork. PH, hunter, tracker, skinner, camp staff, they all make part of a safari team.
Even so, traditionally.

More over, you have been wathcing modern safaris on youtube, probably in most visited countries such as Namibia or South Africa.
And in those countries having a PH is legal requirement for visiting hunter.

SELF GUIDED HUNT IN AFRICA:
In former French colonies, they have French hunting tradition, and there is still option for so called "chasse libre".
Or, selfguided hunt. Try to make search in that direction as well. But, if you go for "chasse libre",wihtout PH, and shoot somewhere an animal such as roan, 600 pouds, or 2000 pound buffalo, very quickly you will get to idea of necessity of some local assistance. The only thing, local help will not be called "PH". And such hunts, based on my reasearch, will not be cheap.

 

AGNK

AH member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
31
don’t get me wrong, I understand the value of the local PH who knows the lay of the land and to find game but once that has been accomplished surely the the client may have the opportunity to actually take over the hunt ....that is the hunt! ....But if the PH hands it to you on a plate?....dangerous game or not...
 

Hogpatrol

Silver supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
15,092
Location
Delaware, USA
Media
87
Articles
4
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Atglen Sportsmen's Club, NRA ,SCCFSA,
Hunted
RSA, DE, NJ, PA, KS, TX, ME
Short and sweet, how many months do you have to find a specific species or herd of animals in 100,000 acres, a million acres, or a hundred square miles in an unfamiliar area and ecosystem? This is the expertise your outfitter and PH bring to the table. Most hunters that I know are time limited or at least budget limited and a hunt your own safari in a foreign venue wouldn't be logistically possible.

Edit: In probably at least a million topics, especially hunting, You Tube is a poor example.
 

AGNK

AH member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
31
don’t jump to conclusions....I’m all for having PH’s, trekkers , skinners and so forth.... just like a little more involvement in the hunt rather than the PH doing all the hunting and even setting the shooting sticks for you...
 

AGNK

AH member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
17
Reaction score
31
YouTube is probably not a good place to start....but apparently there are some big name hunters mentioned on this forum that have YouTube channels....I’m happy to be corrected...
I’m not computer savvy.... had my daughter show me how to use YouTube...
 

JimP

AH legend
Joined
Dec 14, 2014
Messages
2,477
Reaction score
3,640
Location
Gypsum, Co
Media
46
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
3
Member of
NRA, RMEF
Hunted
US (Utah, Arizona, Idaho, Colorado, Nevada. Canada (British Colombia), South Africa (Eastern Cape)
That's something that you need to discuss with your PH on the hunt.

On my one safari it was a team effort. We both were glassing along with the tracker. When a animal was spotted decisions were made as far as how to get closer. The PH in invaluable in that he can usually tell at a glance if the animal is exceptional or not, or if it is time to let that animal walk away.

I never did feel like just a trigger man and made quite a few of the shoot no shoot decisions on my own. We did have a couple of animals that once the PH saw them he just would say, " that is the animal that we want"
 

Hogpatrol

Silver supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
15,092
Location
Delaware, USA
Media
87
Articles
4
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Atglen Sportsmen's Club, NRA ,SCCFSA,
Hunted
RSA, DE, NJ, PA, KS, TX, ME
don’t jump to conclusions....I’m all for having PH’s, trekkers , skinners and so forth.... just like a little more involvement in the hunt rather than the PH doing all the hunting and even setting the shooting sticks for you...
Due to physical limitations, inexperience or the dynamics of the situation, some hunters will be best served with assistance. A good PH can determine if any of those conditions warrant it. I wouldn't want to have walked a long distance over a period of hours, maybe in the heat of the day, stalking a herd or specific animals only to miss the shot because I wanted to put the sticks up myself. As previously posted, these hunts are team efforts.
 

Adrian

AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
839
Reaction score
1,432
Media
266
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
6
Europe
1
Hunted
England year round and Namibia x5.
Taking for granted that you are fit and able bodied, you will always be involved with the hunt.
I don't think any PH will do all the hunting, click his fingers and then the hunter saunters up, places his rifle on the sticks and shoots if the hunter is able to actually hunt.
If you are able to walk and stalk, you will be part of the hunt and the team.
The PH has to be there to make sure his client shoots the right animal and he has to be there to tell you which one.

For example, you stalk into a group of kudu bulls. There is a prime breeding bull, long horns and at the start of passing on his genes.
There is an old bull, horns are long but he is at the end of his time.
The PH wants the old bull shot and the younger bull to breed.
He isn't going to let his inexperienced client stalk up unsupervised and shoot the wrong animal, he has to be alongside you to guide you.

With dangerous game, he has to be there to assess the situation, monitor you in your height of excitement, make sure you are comfortable on the shot, talk you through it and help you make the best decision and monitor the aftermath as you are reloading and trying to see what happened to your animal.

Your PH is the guy or girl you are employing to help you hunt, you, your PH and likely a tracker will all be contributing to the hunting experience and it's actually really nice to be able to just carry a rifle and not worry about dragging sticks, trying to set them up and at the same time loading your rifle, and swinging it up etc.

Your PH adds to the experience, I don't think there is one that will take your hunt away from you or make you feel as though you have not participated.
 

Red Leg

Lifetime bronze benefactor
AH ambassador
Joined
May 19, 2009
Messages
6,895
Reaction score
20,522
Location
Texas Hill Country
Media
286
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
5
Mex/S.Amer
1
Europe
3
Member of
SCI DSC life memberships / NRA Patron Life
Hunted
Mexico, Namibia, RSA, Germany, Austria, Argentina, Canada, Mozambique, Spain, US (15 states)
As you noted in your original post, you haven't done much guided hunting. At its basic level, whether Canada, the American West, or your own Northern Territory, a guide's role is pretty much the same when hunting big game. Except for the accent, my guides in British Columbia, Montana, Argentina, Spain, and Austria carried out their functions just like my PHs in Africa. In none of those locations did I feel like I was along to merely pull the trigger. (I take that back, there was a fenced hunt here in Texas where I once felt like an executioner).

I am in my late sixties and went to Africa for the first time in 2008. I had been hunting my whole life, to include guiding every day of the hunting season while in college to help make expenses. Because of my military career, I had hunted all over the US and a bit of Europe. I had a stack of African hunting videos in the cabinet below the TV and had read everything I could get my hands on about hunting Africa.

I went to Namibia and hunted the free range low fence country near Omaruru. Sometime during the first hour of the first day, I realized that I knew absolutely nothing about hunting Africa. After the first couple of hours, I realized I knew absolutely nothing about tracking game, or how to find it in that very different environment. By the end of the first day, my PH, tracker and I were a smoothly operating team. We had a wonderful hunt and never did I feel like I was merely the trigger man.

Most guides and PHs have hard earned practical degrees in human behaviour. Sometime after picking you up at the airport and finishing your check rounds at the range, he will have a pretty good assessment of you. By the time you finish your first approach on a game animal, he will be at nearly 100% and will adjust the hunt accordingly. He will treat a novice differently than someone with obvious experience.

I now have had the good fortune to make several hunts in Africa in three different countries. In August I'll add a fourth. Like the other trips, my PH will take the lead. But, like all my other hunts, we will operate as a team.

If I may offer some advice - don't assume you know very much. Go with an open mind and be willing to listen a lot more than you opine. (that was rather poetic! :sneaky:) I assure you your PH would much rather hunt with you than lead you around by the collar. Moreover, he will figure you out a lot quicker and more accurately than by whatever you try to tell him.
 
Last edited:

Tbitty

AH veteran
Joined
Nov 26, 2019
Messages
182
Reaction score
457
Location
Texas
Media
15
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
RSA
I also do a lot of self guided hunts, either solo or with friends, around the US. However, even in many cases I rely either on the company I'm with or local help to provide a lot of support logistics in scouting and game reports, places to go or avoid, what to look for, how to do it better, and overall impart experience to me for GUIDEance. Even "back home" when hunting on family and friends land that I have hunted since I was a boy, I still get reports from those living there currently and can help me dial in. I know generally where to go and certainly what to do, but if they've spotted a particularly good animal to take, I sure like knowing about it.

Africa plains game hunt with a PH was not altogether that different. Up to the hunt we communicated and he shared similar details as I'd get from friends or locals here in the states. Arrival day we did an area scouting to get me a feel for the land. From there, I told him what I wanted to go for, made plans for our stalks when we found game to go for, etc. However the biggest value was in having an experienced person who knows these animals advise on age, size, and other factors that I was not familiar with in new environment and animals I've never seen before. He did a lot of support but I never felt like a "triggerman" having shooter animals served up to me.

I often reflect back to a caribou hunt in Alaska, where I had a dual tag that could be used for moose or 2nd caribou. In the area I was hunting, regulations stated a bull moose had to meet specific criteria (I think 50" wide or 3+ points on a single "brow tine"). Mind you I've never seen a live bull moose except a drive by occurrence here or there on various trips, but the point being I had no idea what 50" wide moose is. I studied for the few months leading up to hunt pictures and tips/tricks on how to calculate. Day 1 of the hunt, I'm out solo and a bull moose walks by at 200 yards but won't stop to my calls or turn to look towards me for more than a split second. I was unable to judge the size and had to pass, not wanting to take an animal that falls short of regulations. The point of adding this encounter, is that Had a guide or PH been with me, they'd have known in a moment if it was a shooter or not, and I wouldn't be left wondering all these years later if I missed an opportunity. Wouldn't have made me a trigger man any more or less, but would have been valuable insight on what to do. Give me a white-tailed deer and I can tell you in a second if I want to shoot or not. Give me a moose and I'm just guessing.
 

mark-hunter

AH legend
Joined
Aug 14, 2016
Messages
2,128
Reaction score
2,824
Media
25
Articles
2
Hunted
Namibia - Kalahari, Namibia - Khomas highland
.I’m all for having PH’s, trekkers , skinners and so forth.... just like a little more involvement in the hunt rather than the PH doing all the hunting and even setting the shooting sticks for you...

You will have to define "more involvement".
There are many aspects to this.
How you will choose the right animal to shoot? For example, zebra male or female? Blue wildebeest male / or female? Warthog male / female? A trophy size of horn? Difference between male / female blesbok? Diference between blesbok, bontebok. (and we are speaking of dozens of PG species in Africa, wheras in Namibia or South Africa you can see more then 30 species during a week long safari.

Difference between: Managmnet animal, from trophy animal? How to choose animal for culling?
Etc, etc...

My own impressions are that, you will have as much autonomy as you may need it, based on your rapport with PH. This is basically, what has been described in earlier posts. There are all types of clients (from good hunters and riflemen, to those who cant handle a rifle, in extreme cases) and generally PH will adjust the hunt, as per clients needs, and to clients satisfactions.

Finally, go to hunting report section of forum. From that source - my impressions is that at least 99% of hunters came out extremely satisifed with their experience and with their PH. It is not without a reason.
 

375Fox

AH fanatic
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
770
Reaction score
1,738
Location
Pennsylvania
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Zambia, Namibia, South Africa
I’ve hunted in Australia once (5 days) and New Zealand twice (17 days), I saw no difference in how my guide and myself worked as a team there compared to Africa. Spain was probably most formal guiding I’ve seen and I think North America is probably most harsh guiding I’ve seen (lack of opportunities in event of failure I think causes this). My most recent hunt to Africa was one of my best to me because of how my PH and I worked together and discussed options to stalk animals. I think everything depends on your PH’s initial evaluation of you and your attitude. If you go there with the attitude of I want to hunt 100% on my own, you’re no longer working as a team, and probably won’t go that well for anyone involved. Choose a PH that shares your hunting goals and you will have a good hunt.
 

375Fox

AH fanatic
Joined
Feb 19, 2020
Messages
770
Reaction score
1,738
Location
Pennsylvania
Media
70
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Hunted
Zambia, Namibia, South Africa
don’t jump to conclusions....I’m all for having PH’s, trekkers , skinners and so forth.... just like a little more involvement in the hunt rather than the PH doing all the hunting and even setting the shooting sticks for you...
I didn’t think it when I hunted there, but I’m noticing on this forum that there are some huge differences between American and Australian perceptions of hunting by hunters. I think it’s hard for Americans to really understand what you’re asking for because we view hunting differently. I’m noticing this particularly around trophy hunting and guiding. I’m sure some Australians will add in shortly.
 

R.M.C.

Bronze supporter
AH fanatic
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
Messages
613
Reaction score
903
Location
Northeastern Pennsylvania
Media
6
Hunted
U.S. and Canada
I think you'll want the PH to put up the shooting sticks for you at the very least lol
I agree with 375Fox about the differing views of hunting around the world. Everyone has their own tastes I guess. Anyway good luck on your first safari!!!
 

Newboomer

Gold supporter
AH legend
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
4,241
Location
Nevada
Media
13
Member of
NRA, SCI, American Legion, Freemasons
Hunted
RSA, Maine, Montana, Colorado, Texas, Alaska, California.
As Sgt Schultz on Hogan's Heroes said, "I know nothing." Truer words were never spoken concerning a first safari. Before I went on my first, I devoured everything I could find on African species and hunting methods. First time my PH and I stepped out of the truck I immediately realized how much I didn't know. Strange terrain, methods, species( most of which I had never seen live), language differences and I've been hunting since I was old enough to hold a gun.

I couldn't tell male from female, horn size, physical size, age or anything about the animal. Babe in the woods and I had to rely on my Ph to guide me. I was under the impression that only old males were shooters. Wrong. My first kill was an old gemsbok cow. I wouldn't have shot her but my PH said to take her because he saw she had a bum leg and was in poor shape. Rely on your PH. He knows what he's doing and will advise you to do the right thing.

Go with an open mind realizing African hunting is totally different from anything you have done before. Even the most experienced hunters need local guidance.
 

Hogpatrol

Silver supporter
AH ambassador
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
15,092
Location
Delaware, USA
Media
87
Articles
4
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
Atglen Sportsmen's Club, NRA ,SCCFSA,
Hunted
RSA, DE, NJ, PA, KS, TX, ME
Good one Newboomer. I had the same feeling as Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz on my first day only the munchkins were the animals.

 

Ike85123

AH fanatic
Joined
Mar 21, 2021
Messages
781
Reaction score
1,549
Location
Arizona, USA
Media
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
Member of
None
I can honestly say a ph is a high value on any hunt. Even if you have hunted all your life and been to africa 100 times or never. Not knowing the terrain, concession layout or where the local neighbors are can be an issue. Not to mention if you are not aware of the behavior patterns of all african animals, you could get yourself in trouble quick. A great ph will have many years experience in the bush,tracking,sexing and general knowledge. I believe it is impossible to have their understanding of every animal or even every bush that can impact your hunt, without years of training yourself.
I believe a solo hunt is best suited for a ph, rather than a visitor.
Ive been caught in the middle of herds a few times, in a bad way. Thank god I had someone with me that knew exactly what to do !
Given the time restraints on these hunts. Im pretty sure you would be better off with a ph and crew. If you are worried about feeling like the trigger man, then get out of the rover and walk with the trackers. You will learn alot and feel more like part of the team. Then after the animal is found, spend the time with the ph, and be a vocal part of the kill. Then, you can also choose to help skin the kill if you want.
They are all there to help you. But if you want to do more work or less work, they will accommodate you as much as they can.
Have a great first trip !
 

Forum statistics

Threads
38,246
Messages
736,040
Members
69,280
Latest member
KathaleenB
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Tam Dl wrote on xausa's profile.
I have been looking at an option for a 505, that doesn't break the bank (that concern my have to yield), and is more in the 50-110, or 50 Alaskan range. However not easy to find a case, other than the Weatherby, of course. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Tam Dl wrote on xausa's profile.
Hello, do you have any information on your 505 SRE cartridge. Up here in Canada, there is talk about how the various 500s may exceed the 10 000 Joule limit recently imposed. Not that they do on paper, but you never know what they may infer or claim.
Eastern Cape Hunting Report Coming soon...

IMG_2658.JPG
IMG_2152.JPG
IMG_0899.JPG
IMG_0521.JPG
IMG_2066.JPG
IMG_2583.JPG
Jaynecobb wrote on cal pappas's profile.
I hate to bother you....I own 2 of your books including British bore rifle. I was hoping you might have more 10 bore loads. For the heavier and later rifles. Any help would be appreciated.
Gert Odendaal wrote on Av8or's profile.
Good day , Do you still have .375 H&H Magnum brass available to sell?
 
Top