Ever OK to shoot from a truck?

I can't believe it, but I just saw a show on the Outdoor Channel in which the host shot a kudu and a waterbuck - both from the back of a truck!!! Then he and the outfitter admired the fine shooting and the fine animals he had taken. I couldn't believe it.

In my opinion, that is definitely not OK and definitely not something for prime time TV. I'll be telling my Tivo to not record any more episodes of that show.
 
As a local South African I think it is different for us. You come on a Trophy safari. But we look at the different opportunity's and decide if we want to do it or not. This year I am going on my first Springbok driven Hunt. In my eyes not real hunting, any case not what i am used to, but I know what to expect. I also want to shoot a Gemsbok in the Red dunes of the Kalahari, but that type of hunts is from the back of a truck at 300-400 meters. Hunting on foot in Limpopo, walking from camp and only using the vehicle for recovery’s is the normal way of hunting for me, but I am ready to try the other ways where my way is not possible, like in the middle of a dessert, 70 miles from camp. But yes, when I book the hunt, I know it is going to be like that. Africa is full of game, but not all areas is suited for traditional hunting methods.
 
Somewhat OT, but from what I've heard from boots on the ground in RSA, a lot of the hunting is becoming long range because of the use of and shooting from helicopters for culling. Having said that, if you can hit something off of sticks at 300 to 500 yards and not from a truck, good luck.
 
In this part of the world the way to hunt Gemsbok is with a vehicle, you might go stand next to it if you want, but who are you really kidding. Walk 50 yards and then say you hunted it on foot? This is the only place I want to hunt them, not in the bush at 50m on foot, but rather here from a truck, because this is their natural habitat.

7AAFC2A0-1C61-4F68-9EEE-2F07BDC0D7CA.jpeg
8B338EA6-B909-473D-8E87-5F2D77FEF88E.jpeg
336C27DE-927D-4B02-901F-7966622BF01B.jpeg
 
I think this is an interesting one.

For my hunting, I like there to be a bit of physical effort involved in getting thes hot, so I wouldn't take a shot from a vehcle out of choice. On that topic, someone asked above if you'd be happy to just step out the truck, wander a couple steps and then take your beast. For me, no. If I'd paid a lot of money to take a special animal and that was the experience gained, then I'd be disappointed.

But that then opens up a question of how much is 'enough'. I'd guess most hunters in the UK (excepting the Scottish Highlands) never go more than a mile or so from their vehicle. Is that hunting? I'd say so, but the hunter in the US backpacking into the mountains for days then packing out the meat might beg to differ.

There are times when I will shoot from a vehicle if necessary. They are shots taken for 1 - pest control, or 2- humanitarian reasons. To pass up a shot to finish up a wounded or sick animal because you're in a truck is in my eyes unethical for instance. Pest control isn't an ethical dilemma really so much as you're there to do a job. You've gotten permssion to be shooting there to control pests so that's the remit, with any fun or thrill of the chase secondary (although still of course present). I'd lamp bunnies from a truck, or foxes, but not deer or boar. A professional contractor there to manage deer numbers in forestry though, should be taking those shots because he's being paid to manage deer numbers, not have an exciting stalking experience.

As for the OPs post, I don't have an issue with it ethically and if it works for the OP than crack on, but my personal preference would be to do those activities on foot if at all possible. These tasks are necessary for the effective running of camp, but the reason you're involved in them as opposed to letting an employee of the safari company handle it is because they're 'fun'. If that's a major factor in why you are there taking those shots, then that's in my eyes a 'sporting excursion' and so the usual rules apply. Also, I do most of my hunting for meat, so to me a 'camp meat' excursion is just another hunt.

Al.
 
As per usual I will answer with. To each their own. Hunters really need to learn to stick together. We have so many sects and divides it's not even funny. We have to be the worst group for this. I am a member of various forums as I do enjoy various styles of hunting, locations etc. And it seems everyone of these need their own forum. And I can tell you the divide is ridiculous. Bow vs crossbow, archery vs gun, stand for stalking, truck or no truck, guided vs unguided, high fence vs no fence, Africa vs everywhere else, bait vs no bait, long range vs short range, hunting rifle vs AR, brake or no brake, silencer or no silencer.

Everyone needs to just be happy for anyone who is taking part in a legal, fair chase hunt. Hunting out of a truck would not be my choice. I personally love putting miles on the boots. I get to really enjoy the country I'm in, the terrain, the hunt etc. But that's me. I would absolutely never judge someone who shoots out of a truck. Especially a elderly hunter or even a youth hunter. Some guys have dreams of hunting a PG safari but have careers etc that only give them a few days. So taking a truck helps them etc. I dunno everyone's reason. But I don't care. Just don't tell me how to hunt and I won't tell you. Let's all just give each other a high five at the camp fire after and exchange stories.
 
Last edited:
As per usual I will answer with. To each their own. Hunters really need to learn to stick together. We have so many sects and divides it's not even funny. We have to be the worst group for this. I am a member of various forums as I do enjoy various styles of hunting, locations etc. And it seems everyone of these need their own forum. And I can tell you the divide is ridiculous. Bow vs crossbow, archery vs gun, stand for stalking, truck or no truck, guided vs unguided, high fence vs no fence, Africa vs everywhere else, bait vs no bait, hunting rifles vs AR, brake or no brake, silencer or no silencer.

Everyone needs to just be happy for anyone who is taking part in a legal, fair chase hunt. Hunting out of a truck would not be my choice. I personally love putting miles on the boots. I get to really enjoy the country I'm in, the terrain, the hunt etc. But that's me. I would absolutely never judge someone who shoots out of a truck. Especially a elderly hunter or even a youth hunter. Some guys have dreams of hunting a PG safari but have careers etc that only give them a few days. So taking a truck helps them etc. I dunno everyone's reason. But I don't care. Just don't tell me how to hunt and I won't tell you. Let's all just give each other a high five at the camp fire after and exchange stories.
@Chago
Well said.
Bob
 
As per usual I will answer with. To each their own. Hunters really need to learn to stick together. We have so many sects and divides it's not even funny. We have to be the worst group for this. I am a member of various forums as I do enjoy various styles of hunting, locations etc. And it seems everyone of these need their own forum. And I can tell you the divide is ridiculous. Bow vs crossbow, archery vs gun, stand for stalking, truck or no truck, guided vs unguided, high fence vs no fence, Africa vs everywhere else, bait vs no bait, long range vs short range, hunting rifle vs AR, brake or no brake, silencer or no silencer.

Everyone needs to just be happy for anyone who is taking part in a legal, fair chase hunt. Hunting out of a truck would not be my choice. I personally love putting miles on the boots. I get to really enjoy the country I'm in, the terrain, the hunt etc. But that's me. I would absolutely never judge someone who shoots out of a truck. Especially a elderly hunter or even a youth hunter. Some guys have dreams of hunting a PG safari but have careers etc that only give them a few days. So taking a truck helps them etc. I dunno everyone's reason. But I don't care. Just don't tell me how to hunt and I won't tell you. Let's all just give each other a high five at the camp fire after and exchange stories.
Definitely more cordial than my post, but very well said. NO ONE in the world has the right to tell you you're hunting wrong. Pointers or advise I say ya, I'm open for suggestions, but to tell me I'm wrong or unethical, naw, I won't go for that.
 
I follow the rules of where I am. If I bring and enforce the rules from home, I would miss out on a lot of other worldly hunting possibilities. 1 hr before sunrise to 1 hr after sunset, no loaded rifles on vehicles (cost me a wildcat in Namibia, did not do as told and load the gun), no night hunting, no truck hunting and on and on.

I dream of riding around in a "high" seat and looking for a muy grand, hanging out of a chopper, mowing down pigs, I will again enjoy long night sits in a blind waiting for Mr. spots to get on that zebra 1/4. Or even being "gifted" while on safari and getting an animal from or real close to the truck. No real difference if you jump of and shoot.

I am a hunter, so do prefer to walk, stalk and ambush, my heart races and I taste that iron adrenaline most when I get real close before shooting, but I judge no other who chooses to do things differently as long as they follow the rules of where they are.

My 2c.

MB
 
I often use the "African carry", with an empty chamber.
In defense of the so called Africa carry, I would add that with that method, the muzzle is always in front of you and you always know where it is pointed. Any method of carry can be dangerous if the hunter is not being safe. I don't view it as any more dangerous than any method of carry.
 
"Legal" vs. "acceptable" vs. "ethical" and various applications...

"Legal", "acceptable" and "ethical". Neither of these 3 concepts survive crossing a political border, a cultural divide, a societal norm, a value system, etc.

Legal in this country may not be in that country; acceptable in this culture may not be in that culture; ethical in this value system may not be in that value system, and in this time or that time, under these circumstances or those circumstances, etc. etc.

I personally see a 3 tiers filter process:
  1. Is it legal where you are (the bare minimum, nobody wants to sleep in jail, right?);
  2. Is it acceptable to the people you are with (the next level, nobody wants to be the pariah of the safari camp, right?);
  3. Is it ethical in your value system (the true filter, it being legal and acceptable to others means nothing if you are not OK with yourself, right?)
Shooting from the truck?
I personally value the chase infinitely more than the kill. I therefore seek the hunt, but I only shoot/kill because it is the logical conclusion of the hunt. So, shooting from the truck during a hunt is of no interest to me, even if legal in the country I hunt, and even if acceptable to the PH I hunt with. But if others do it (where legal), it is truly their issue, not mine.

I could be judgmental and say that this is unethical, or that they are cheating themselves of the true hunt, etc. but this is preposterous because it assumes that they share the same value system I have ... which may not be the case. Therefore, if legal and locally accepted, to each their own. Does it make any difference to the dead animal having been shot from a truck or not?

BUT, there are other examples of legal/acceptable/ethical, or not, practices, which, in my mind, are just, or even more, interesting. For example:

Sniping at game?
I personally shoot steel at 1,000 yd regularly, and I therefore know that for most people a 600 or 800 yd single killing shot at game from a field position is a gamble. So, I do not snipe at game, even though it is legal, and even though current societal norms tend to accept it very well, not to say encourage it. But if others do it, it is their issue, not mine, right?

Well, in this case, not quite, there are the consequences of crippling game at long range: unethical needless animal suffering, and unacceptable anti-conservation practice of multiplying wounded animals all over the landscape...

African carry?
I personally do not use the African carry with a cocked rifle over a loaded chamber because the bottom line is that unless you are first in line (which is how African carry was born: the gun bearer ahead of the hunter was carrying this way so that all the hunter had to do was reach forward for the rifle), so, unless you are first in line you are pointing a loaded and cocked rifle at the head or back of the person in front of you. It is legal, and an acceptable practice to many, and many will argue that it is ethical if the rifle safety is engaged, right?

Well, in my case, I do not do it, and I personally refuse to be followed by someone who practices African carry with a cocked rifle over a loaded chamber, and I do not care whether the safety is on or not. End of discussion for me.

In summary...

Shooting from the truck? If legal, to each their own...

Sniping at game? Even if legal and accepted, the data shows that in most cases it is irresponsible, therefore I would consider it unethical...

African carry (or any form of unsafe gun handling)? May or may not be legal (e.g. loaded rifles in the truck); may or may not be accepted by the PH; may or may not be considered ethical by various folks, but to me it is simply unacceptable: your loaded & cocked barrel will not be pointing at the back of my head. Period.

So, in the end, if it is legal, then it all becomes personal, including whether you want to face social nonacceptance or not...

What data shows "sniping" at game causes wounded animals? Data from you and your buddies who are not capable of said shots? You seem to have a very neutral stance throughout your post except this one topic. I repeat, to each their own. I will use your own post against you. Number 3 what is ethical. The hunter needs to ask themselves what is ethical. If you know you are sailing a shot without the know how or the confidence in what you are doing. Then a 200 yard shot is unethical. My first trip to Africa I saw some great white hunters wounding animals at 40 yards shooting there custom made African arm cannon. They probably put 3 rounds down range with and decided to go hunting. He's more ethical at 40 yards then me who has thousands of hours, tens of thousands of rounds down range and world class training at 500 yards? He is unethical walking with a loaded gun in the woods with the intent to kill something with it. Regardless of the yardage.

Sorry one day but this is a ignorant statement. The reason why "the data" might be higher. Is because people take shots they are not capable of. That in itself is the unethical part. Not the range of the shot. I am not bragging but defending a way of hunting for many. Many who hunt in western plains really have to train in long range shooting. More then eastern woodlands hunters learn to stalk. Eastern boys need those stalking skills because it's all thick woods and you will never see an animal otherwise. Western plains hunters don't have a tree in sight. So sneaking up is almost impossible. 300,400 yards shots are as normal as a 30 yard tree stand shot for Iowa deer hunters.

I have shot and dirt napped animals at 965 yards is my longest. But I have also walked away from many 100 yard shots. Because circumstances made them unethical for me to take a chance on those shots.
 
I am no ethical police! All I will say about the long range guys is its NOT for me. I see on TV shooting a grizzly at 1100 yds, an elk at 1000, goat at 900+, and driving to a mnt top in Africa and shooting kudu, gemsbuck, bushbuck and others at looong distances. For me they are missing the point or something, the "fun" part of a hunt for me is the stalk, out thinking, getting close and making a quick killing shot. Closer I get faster the heart beats.

But each to their own as long as legal.

MB
 
I am no ethical police! All I will say about the long range guys is its NOT for me. I see on TV shooting a grizzly at 1100 yds, an elk at 1000, goat at 900+, and driving to a mnt top in Africa and shooting kudu, gemsbuck, bushbuck and others at looong distances. For me they are missing the point or something, the "fun" part of a hunt for me is the stalk, out thinking, getting close and making a quick killing shot. Closer I get faster the heart beats.

But each to their own as long as legal.

MB

Perfectly fair opinion. I have nothing but respect.
 
What data shows "sniping" at game causes wounded animals? Data from you and your buddies who are not capable of said shots? ... Sorry one day but this is a ignorant statement...

Hahaha, I don't know about my buddies, and I don't know about myself because I indeed do not take such shots at animals, and I won't raise my blood pressure about your sarcastic bend (is it really necessary?), but I will tell you Dear Chago, that this type of shooting I formally learned while in uniform (hint), and I still shoot enough steel at 1,000 meters on a monthly basis to know for a fact that for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions a cold bore one shot kill at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, is more a gamble than anything else.

Admittedly, laser rangefinders, portable weather stations and reliable scope internal reticle elevation systems have considerably simplified things, but still by virtue of simple physics even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle disperses to 8.4" groups at 800 yards, therefore hitting RELIABLY, PREDICTABLY and REPEATABLY a 6" vital area at 800 or 900 yards with a hunting rifle from a field hunting position is already out of the shooter's 100% control.

No, I do not have a spreadsheet of data, but I do have a couple friends in South Africa who film safaris for a living, and I do believe their report that the glorious long range one shot kill sequences we see on You Tube generally require an inordinate amount of shooting :whistle:

As for my direct 45 years of center-fire shooting experience, I have watched enough Hail Mary shots (a few of which I was stupid enough to take myself), to stand comfortably by my point that for every one-shot-kill in the hunting field at 600 or 800 yards, there are many, many (repeat: many) shots that cripple or miss when the shooter is lucky.

And I will not even get into the issue of bullet performance at long range when velocity has dropped enough that expansion is unpredictable and crippling hits may not even be detected by the shooter...

I do not doubt that you may have killed an animal at 965 yards, but this in itself does not impress me. Unless you shoot a dedicated long range rifle from controlled prone position that truly, every time, everywhere (altitude, weather front pressure, temperature, humidity, wind, etc.) shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups (that is 5 rounds in 0.5" at 100 yd) then a 965 yd hit in a 6" vital area is just luck, because even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle shoots a 10" group at 965 yards under the best circumstances and with a top notch shooter. Do you shoot such rifle? Do you shoot it that well? If the answer is "yes" to both questions, then you are uncommonly equipped and uncommonly skilled, and all the power to you. I mean it.

My experience however, is that while I have not been able to take to the 1,000 meter range all the folks who have been bragging to me about their 600, 800 or 1,000 yd elk or pronghorn kill with their off-the-shelf hunting rifle and hunting scope, a few friends did come, and it was quite educational for them to burn a few boxes of cartridges trying to ring steel at those distances. Do I need to say that most could not? They were not bad shooters mind you, because they could get a few hits with my Mk13 after I clicked the range, doped the wind for them, and discussed recoil control techniques with them, but in all cases (so far) hitting reliably, predictably and repeatedly (those words again) a 12" steel plate - never mind a 6" plate emulating a vital area - at 800 yd exceeded their hunting rifle/scope capabilities and their un-coached ability.

Therefore, yes, I personally consider it unethical for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions to take a shot at game at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, because the probability of a human one shot kill is quite low for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions. You may be the exception Chago in which case this may be perfectly ethical for you to do so...

I am certainly ignorant of a lot of things, but long range shooting happens to not be one of those, and in my experience dang few people can take a $1,000 cash bet on a one-shot-hit on a 6" plate at 965 yards. I know that I don't ;)

But indeed to each their own. There are laws to define what is legal. There are none that define what is ethical, so it IS a personal matter...

Anyway to each their own indeed, but when I shoot at those distances - which is quite often on steel actually - this is what the rifle looks like, and this is what the sight picture looks like...
 
Last edited:
Hahaha, I don't know about my buddies, and I don't know about myself because I indeed do not take such shots at animals, and I won't raise my blood pressure about your sarcastic bend (is it necessary?), but I will tell you Dear Chago, that this type of shooting I formally learned while in uniform (hint), and I still shoot enough steel at 1,000 meters on a monthly basis to know for a fact that for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions a cold bore one shot kill at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, is more a gamble than anything else.

Admittedly laser rangefinders, portable weather stations and reliable scope internal reticle elevation systems have considerably simplified things, but still by virtue of simple physics even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle disperses to 8" groups at 800 yards, therefore hitting RELIABLY, PREDICTABLY and REPEATABLY a 6" vital area at 800 or 900 yards with a hunting rifle from a field hunting position is already out of the shooter's 100% control.

No, I do not have a spreadsheet of data, but I do have a couple friends in South Africa who film safaris for a living, and I do believe their report that the glorious long range one shot kill sequences we see on You Tube generally require an inordinate amount of shooting :whistle:

As for my direct 45 years of center-fire shooting experience, I have watched enough Hail Mary shots (a few of which I was stupid enough to take myself), to stand comfortably on my point that for every one-shot-kill in the hunting field at 600 or 800 yards, there are many, many (repeat: many) shots that cripple.

And I will not even get into the issue of bullet performance at long range when velocity has dropped enough that expansion is unpredictable and crippling hits may not even be detected by the shooter...

I do not doubt that you may have killed an animal at 965 yards, but this in itself does not impress me. Unless you shoot a dedicated long range rifle from controlled prone position that truly, every time, everywhere (altitude, weather front pressure, temperature, humidity, wind, etc.) shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups (that is 5 rounds in 0.5" at 100 yd) then a 965 yd hit in a 6" vital area is just luck, because even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle shoots a 9.6" group at 965 yards under the best circumstances and with a top notch shooter. Do you shoot such rifle? Do you shoot it that well? If the answer is "yes" to both questions, then you are uncommonly equipped and uncommonly skilled, and all the power to you. I mean it.

My experience however, is that while I have not been able to take to the 1,000 meter range all the folks that have been bragging to me about their 600, 800 or 1,000 yd elk or pronghorn kill with their off-the-shelf hunting rifle and hunting scope, a few friends did come, and it was quite educational for them to burn a few boxes of cartridges trying to ring steel at those distances. Do I need to say that most could not? They were not bad shooters mind you, because they could get a few hits with my Mk13 after I clicked the range and doped the wind for them, but in all cases hitting reliably, predictably and repeatedly (those words again) a 12" steel plate at 800 yd exceeded their hunting rifle/scope capabilities and their uncoached ability.

Therefore, yes, I personally consider it unethical for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions to take a shot at game at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, because probability of a human one shot kill is quite low for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions. You may be the exception Chago in which case this may be perfectly ethical for you to do so...

I am certainly ignorant of a lot of things, but long range shooting happens to not be one of those, and in my experience dang few people can take a $1,000 cash bet for a on-shot-hit on a 6" plate/vital area at 965 yards. I know that I don't ;)

But indeed to each their own. There are laws to define what is legal. There are none that define what is ethical...

Anyway to each their own indeed, but when I shoot at those distances - which is quite often on steel actually - this is what the rifle looks like, and this is what the sight picture looks like...

I do not keep any rifle that does not consistently shoot 0.5moa. And the way I "classify" that is by shooting 5 x 5shot groups on one page. For someone who says they have that experience should know that's not terribly exciting in today's manufacturing methods. Most savage and Remington off the shelf can shoot 1moa with reloads. And like you said prone, conditions favourable etc. That's exactly what I was refering to when I said making a ethical decision to shoot. Yes those longer shots I am of course laying prone. The animal is feeding and not moving much or at all. Wind is favourable etc. But that's the point and again I have walked away from 100 yards or less many times when I had a very nervous animal, running animal, brush, wasn't prepared etc.

Either way. I stick to my original post. Nothing to me is worth fighting over when it comes to hunting. As long as it's legal and you are ethically dispatching a fair chase animal. That's all that matters and I'm happy to give praise to the hunter. Regardless if it's long range, with a bow, out of a truck, behind a high fence.

Lastly a mk13 is a weapon system. That's a Remington 700 built into a AI chassis to made look like a mk13. I did the same thing with a mk13 mod 7. But it's not a mk 13. Not to be a ass but we are both a little old to have been issued mk13s lol

IMG_20190512_181303.jpg
 
I have gone out with my PH at night and shot Impala, Kudu for their family and workers. WE were getting meat(like at a grocery store for them) and it is really not hunting. It was fun but I had a nagging feeling the game warden would show up to arrest us like they would in the USA :).

I also shot a baboon from the high rack(daytime) and that was "pest control". Other animals were always a spot and stalk after the truck was placed out of sight from the animals I wanted to shoot on my list.

I have shot animals off the sticks out to 500 yards. Most were 300-400 yards. I say no to 800+ yard shots as "I" think that is just target shooting at live animals. I also do not believe in using target type bullets for hunting---including ones that are just rebranded target bullets. But that is just me.

I do not like sitting in a blind so I look for hunts that do not require that for all the hunting. If you prefer it I say great ---go for it.

I do not bring my home values with me as to the type of hunt. I am open to the way hunting is done where I go. We do not use bait but I will even set in a stand over bait if that is the way it is done where I am hunting. I do not judge others by the way they hunt. IF I do not like it I just will not hunt there. No reason to get arrogant or acting like you are better or above the way others hunt. Also consider sometimes they are NOT doing a real hunt. They may be getting meat for camp/staff/family or pest control.

My2 Cents
 
What data shows "sniping" at game causes wounded animals? Data from you and your buddies who are not capable of said shots? You seem to have a very neutral stance throughout your post except this one topic. I repeat, to each their own. I will use your own post against you. Number 3 what is ethical. The hunter needs to ask themselves what is ethical. If you know you are sailing a shot without the know how or the confidence in what you are doing. Then a 200 yard shot is unethical. My first trip to Africa I saw some great white hunters wounding animals at 40 yards shooting there custom made African arm cannon. They probably put 3 rounds down range with and decided to go hunting. He's more ethical at 40 yards then me who has thousands of hours, tens of thousands of rounds down range and world class training at 500 yards? He is unethical walking with a loaded gun in the woods with the intent to kill something with it. Regardless of the yardage.

Sorry one day but this is a ignorant statement. The reason why "the data" might be higher. Is because people take shots they are not capable of. That in itself is the unethical part. Not the range of the shot. I am not bragging but defending a way of hunting for many. Many who hunt in western plains really have to train in long range shooting. More then eastern woodlands hunters learn to stalk. Eastern boys need those stalking skills because it's all thick woods and you will never see an animal otherwise. Western plains hunters don't have a tree in sight. So sneaking up is almost impossible. 300,400 yards shots are as normal as a 30 yard tree stand shot for Iowa deer hunters.

I have shot and dirt napped animals at 965 yards is my longest. But I have also walked away from many 100 yard shots. Because circumstances made them unethical for me to take a chance on those shots.
Hahaha, I don't know about my buddies, and I don't know about myself because I indeed do not take such shots at animals, and I won't raise my blood pressure about your sarcastic bend (is it really necessary?), but I will tell you Dear Chago, that this type of shooting I formally learned while in uniform (hint), and I still shoot enough steel at 1,000 meters on a monthly basis to know for a fact that for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions a cold bore one shot kill at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, is more a gamble than anything else.

Admittedly, laser rangefinders, portable weather stations and reliable scope internal reticle elevation systems have considerably simplified things, but still by virtue of simple physics even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle disperses to 8.4" groups at 800 yards, therefore hitting RELIABLY, PREDICTABLY and REPEATABLY a 6" vital area at 800 or 900 yards with a hunting rifle from a field hunting position is already out of the shooter's 100% control.

No, I do not have a spreadsheet of data, but I do have a couple friends in South Africa who film safaris for a living, and I do believe their report that the glorious long range one shot kill sequences we see on You Tube generally require an inordinate amount of shooting :whistle:

As for my direct 45 years of center-fire shooting experience, I have watched enough Hail Mary shots (a few of which I was stupid enough to take myself), to stand comfortably by my point that for every one-shot-kill in the hunting field at 600 or 800 yards, there are many, many (repeat: many) shots that cripple or miss when the shooter is lucky.

And I will not even get into the issue of bullet performance at long range when velocity has dropped enough that expansion is unpredictable and crippling hits may not even be detected by the shooter...

I do not doubt that you may have killed an animal at 965 yards, but this in itself does not impress me. Unless you shoot a dedicated long range rifle from controlled prone position that truly, every time, everywhere (altitude, weather front pressure, temperature, humidity, wind, etc.) shoots 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups (that is 5 rounds in 0.5" at 100 yd) then a 965 yd hit in a 6" vital area is just luck, because even a good 1 MOA hunting rifle shoots a 10" group at 965 yards under the best circumstances and with a top notch shooter. Do you shoot such rifle? Do you shoot it that well? If the answer is "yes" to both questions, then you are uncommonly equipped and uncommonly skilled, and all the power to you. I mean it.

My experience however, is that while I have not been able to take to the 1,000 meter range all the folks who have been bragging to me about their 600, 800 or 1,000 yd elk or pronghorn kill with their off-the-shelf hunting rifle and hunting scope, a few friends did come, and it was quite educational for them to burn a few boxes of cartridges trying to ring steel at those distances. Do I need to say that most could not? They were not bad shooters mind you, because they could get a few hits with my Mk13 after I clicked the range, doped the wind for them, and discussed recoil control techniques with them, but in all cases (so far) hitting reliably, predictably and repeatedly (those words again) a 12" steel plate - never mind a 6" plate emulating a vital area - at 800 yd exceeded their hunting rifle/scope capabilities and their un-coached ability.

Therefore, yes, I personally consider it unethical for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions to take a shot at game at 600, 700, 800, 900 or whatever yardage you care to consider, because the probability of a human one shot kill is quite low for most hunters with most hunting rifles from most field shooting positions. You may be the exception Chago in which case this may be perfectly ethical for you to do so...

I am certainly ignorant of a lot of things, but long range shooting happens to not be one of those, and in my experience dang few people can take a $1,000 cash bet on a one-shot-hit on a 6" plate at 965 yards. I know that I don't ;)

But indeed to each their own. There are laws to define what is legal. There are none that define what is ethical, so it IS a personal matter...

Anyway to each their own indeed, but when I shoot at those distances - which is quite often on steel actually - this is what the rifle looks like, and this is what the sight picture looks like...
@Chago
@One Day...
There are a lot of long range rifles around BUT VERY FEW long range shooters.
I might be capable of hitting a 6 inch gong at 500 yards all day at the range with my custom half inch rifles but should I do the same at the game I respect.
I applaud your long range shooting abilities but for me there are to many variables to consider shooting game at 800 yards plus. Yes it can be done.
A 6.5 credemore is accurate to 1000 yards but will it kill an elk at that range. NO!! I hasn't got the velocity or the mass. Will a 338 lapua or a 30/378 , 338/378 kill game at 1,000 yards. YES. But who wants to carry an 8 kilo rifle around the bush.
To me it's horses for courses and far to may people get their ambition mixed up with their capabilities.
We owe it to the animal to dispatch it cleanly without suffering in an ETHICAL manner.
If you are going to shoot long range be sure YOU, YOUR WEAPONS and YOUR CARTRIDGE ARE CAPABLE OF IT. If not don't pull the trigger.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Bob.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
53,980
Messages
1,142,028
Members
93,323
Latest member
escortsitesus
 

 

 

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Pancho wrote on Safari Dave's profile.
Enjoyed reading your post again. Believe this is the 3rd time. I am scheduled to hunt w/ Legadema in Sep. Really looking forward to it.
check out our Buff hunt deal!
Because of some clients having to move their dates I have 2 prime time slots open if anyone is interested to do a hunt
5-15 May
or 5-15 June is open!
shoot me a message for a good deal!
dogcat1 wrote on skydiver386's profile.
I would be interested in it if you pass. Please send me the info on the gun shop if you do not buy it. I have the needed ammo and brass.
Thanks,
Ross
Jackal hunt on triggercam,

 
Top