Does removing all oil in a barrel reduce first shot variations?

[Nhoro]

So I was thinking, if you use something like electrical switch cleaner spray to get all the oil out of the bore before going hunting, does it reduce the first shot flyer ?

 

[Joker12]

Not in my experience. In some barrels just one fouling shot is all thats needed and in some it takes 2 or 3. I have a 7x57 (one of my favorites) that seems to shoot much better after a few fouling shots. I never take that one hunting with a clean barrel.

 

[Tanks]

For both of my doubles (9.3x74R & .500 NE) on a recent hunt it took two fouling shots to get back to zero.

 

[Red Leg]

I never take one of my rifles on a hunt with a newly cleaned barrel. Don't clean them during a hunt either unless there is an obstruction.

 

[Newboomer]

I never take one of my rifles on a hunt with a newly cleaned barrel. Don't clean them during a hunt either unless there is an obstruction.

I run a patch to remove any oil before traveling. Upon arrival I sight in a few shots to zero and don't do anything to a bbl unless it gets obstucted or exceesively wet. I don't clean before coming home and I have been questioned about it in JFK. One joker couldn't understand I was coming home from a hunt where I had fired several shots and had to call his supervisor to clarify the situation. A look at some of my photos of me, rifle, and trophy convinced them.

 

[Sabattiboy]

I always cleaned after shooting since that is the way I was taught.
Some years back I bought an accurate LR rifle in 300 WM and cleaned after shooting as usual. Some years later a shooting friend said not to clean until the accuracy went. I tried that and sure enough the bbl didn't rot out and accuracy actually improved. During the clean every shooting session I noticed the first round, cold bore, out of the barrel over a chronograph gave a slower reading and moved from zero a small amount.
The modifier to this is the bbl quality and type of rifling. I shot a Walmart Rem 700 hunting rifle in 7mm Mag and in developing loads used H1000, IMR 7828 and Retumbo. Accuracy shifted when there was a change in powder unless it was cleaned before changing powder loads.
Being a very thin bbl it also started moving the poi after the first two shots.

My second 300 WM bbl was cut rifling and it seemed to not care compared to button rifled barrels.

All this for me just says being fouled matters and knowing what your rifle requires to be consistent.
Not cleaning the bore has also made me lazy about cleaning the rest of the gun.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I will say that I'm not much on cleaning bores, but without exception every time I fire a suppressed rifle it gets a bore snake afterward. The back pressure of the suppressor will put some copper deposits in some funny places like the chamber of semi auto firearms.

 

[ZG47]

I run a lightly oiled patch down the barrel unless I know for certain that I did not oil the barrel after its last use. I then dry out the chamber BECAUSE that is the part which has to be dry. A wet chamber will cause the case to move back. This alters head space, thereby reducing shot consistency; and more importantly: it turns your cartridge into a proof round by increasing breech face pressure.

 

[Vintageguy]

I’m probably going to get jumped by the “no copper visible in your rifling” folks, but here goes anyway. One reason folks see a difference in clean bore to dirty is they’ve stripped most copper from the rifling and that first shot is coming from effectively a different bore than the last zero shot on the range. I’ve tried it all, even cleaning between shots when zeroing and finally figured this out. Now I clean after I’m done with shooting and I use nothing but a brush, some wd40, then a clean patch, lightly oil the bore unless I’m shooting again very soon and always a dry bore when I do. My rifling shines like a new penny on all my rifles but the first shot goes the same place as the last. I won’t keep a rifle that won’t stay under an inch at 100 and my 375 stays under 3/4 of an inch any day and none require a fouling shot.
All rifling has microscopic ridges and grooves like a file and the copper fills this rough surface. When you clean the bore only of loose residue it retains that copper and its smoothness but if you aggressively strip it you change it from the condition it was when you finished shooting that bragging group and it won’t put the next shot in the same place.
I was hard headed about this for a long time and the copper solvent guys loved me but it makes cleaning and shooting much better.

 

[fourfive8]

Every rifle is probably slightly different but on average all mine settle down after about 2-3 shots and the group usually remains in that location for as many shots as I'm likely to fire on any one hunt. I always do my final sight adjustment before going on a hunt after 2-3 or so fouling shots. Then maybe go to the range a few times before the hunt- cleaning after each session. I then know what to expect from the first 1-3 shots once I get to hunt area after travel. I'll usually shoot 2-3 to confirm zero and confirm it's shooting where it should with a clean bore. I don't touch the bore during the hunt after that- except of course if some mud or crud has gotten in the bore. Additionally, I always tape the muzzle with some electrical tape to keep crud out of the bore- I carry a small roll when I travel or add a few wraps around the barrel to provide handy source.

Also, I store a bore cleaned and with a good coating of oil... but never shoot "over" any heavily oiled bore. I always run a patch through before going to the range. I'm sure it doesn't get all the oil out, leaving only a thin film. Plus it's insurance against firing over any foreign object that may have gotten into the bore between range sessions. Same as visually inspecting for bore obstructions.

 

[Bullthrower338]

I don’t clean a rifle I’m hunting with and never leave the house without a round or two down the tube! Cold bore shot can be accounted for, freshly whited out barrel cant.

 

[Red Leg]

I’m probably going to get jumped by the “no copper visible in your rifling” folks, but here goes anyway. One reason folks see a difference in clean bore to dirty is they’ve stripped most copper from the rifling and that first shot is coming from effectively a different bore than the last zero shot on the range. I’ve tried it all, even cleaning between shots when zeroing and finally figured this out. Now I clean after I’m done with shooting and I use nothing but a brush, some wd40, then a clean patch, lightly oil the bore unless I’m shooting again very soon and always a dry bore when I do. My rifling shines like a new penny on all my rifles but the first shot goes the same place as the last. I won’t keep a rifle that won’t stay under an inch at 100 and my 375 stays under 3/4 of an inch any day and none require a fouling shot.
All rifling has microscopic ridges and grooves like a file and the copper fills this rough surface. When you clean the bore only of loose residue it retains that copper and its smoothness but if you aggressively strip it you change it from the condition it was when you finished shooting that bragging group and it won’t put the next shot in the same place.
I was hard headed about this for a long time and the copper solvent guys loved me but it makes cleaning and shooting much better.

Exactly.

Only difference is that I use Ballistol.

 

[Newboomer]

Exactly.

Only difference is that I use Ballistol.

Funny thing with my Win 70 7RM. I use my own loads of 52 gr of 4064 and Barnes 160gr TSX. It has served me well ever since I've had the rifle. Three trips to RSA and 15 heads, all one shot kills. I went to the range a few days ago to get in some practice for my stag hunt in Oct. with Gizmo. Clean bore at 100 yds the first 3 shots could be covered with a quarter. After that the groups moved 4" high and 4" left. Same load off the bench and bags. It did the same thing today.

The first groups were cold bore and as it heated up the groups spread and moved. I did the dollar bill trick to see if I had a pressure point on the forend and there was none. I'm thinking this gun doesn't like shooting hot. Next time I go out I'll take another rifle to switch off with. I need some boomer (375HH) time anyway. It may go to Texas with me.

 

[Primal]

I’m probably going to get jumped by the “no copper visible in your rifling” folks, but here goes anyway. One reason folks see a difference in clean bore to dirty is they’ve stripped most copper from the rifling and that first shot is coming from effectively a different bore than the last zero shot on the range. I’ve tried it all, even cleaning between shots when zeroing and finally figured this out. Now I clean after I’m done with shooting and I use nothing but a brush, some wd40, then a clean patch, lightly oil the bore unless I’m shooting again very soon and always a dry bore when I do. My rifling shines like a new penny on all my rifles but the first shot goes the same place as the last. I won’t keep a rifle that won’t stay under an inch at 100 and my 375 stays under 3/4 of an inch any day and none require a fouling shot.
All rifling has microscopic ridges and grooves like a file and the copper fills this rough surface. When you clean the bore only of loose residue it retains that copper and its smoothness but if you aggressively strip it you change it from the condition it was when you finished shooting that bragging group and it won’t put the next shot in the same place.
I was hard headed about this for a long time and the copper solvent guys loved me but it makes cleaning and shooting much better.

I remember reading a study done by the U.S. Army rifle team many years ago. The people doing the study came to conclusion that using copper removing bore cleaner made their rifles less accurate and their experiences pretty much mirrored what you said.

They found that only very excessive copper build up was an issue, and small to moderate amounts of copper in the bore improved and helped maintain higher levels of accuracy due to the copper filling in all the minor imperfections in the bore.

If they removed all traces of copper fouling, the rifle's accuracy degraded and was less consistant until enough rounds caused the copper to smooth everything out again. The Army shooting team stopped use copper solvents in their rifles after that study.

 

[autofire]

I always give my rifle a super cleaning and then make last trip to range and fire 2 or 3 fouling shots. just take a snake bore to use each day after hunting to clean barrel.

 

[mark-hunter]

So I was thinking, if you use something like electrical switch cleaner spray to get all the oil out of the bore before going hunting, does it reduce the first shot flyer ?

@Nhoro
In my experience yes.
I was not able to solve the problem of first shot flyer by any way of cleaning, until I started using break cleaner spray.
So, before going to the range, or hunting, now I clean the barrel with brush to remove oil, etc... then when it is as clean as possible to the best of my cleaning abilities, then I use a break cleaner spray to remove all remaining oil from barrel.
Doing that I never had a flyer on first shot. Before I started doing that - yes, without exemption.

Having said that:
All above is tested on the range.

If I go hunting, I do the same procedure, clean & dry the barrel, then go to the range, test.
Then I dont clean barrel anymore after the test, I just go hunting.

If i take a preps for some local competition, I do the same.
Never had a flyer in that way on competition day, after that cleaning + test procedure. (cold bore shot ' perfect)
But once the training and test is done, i dont clean the barrel before the competition.

So, from practical terms: the barrel is finally cleaned to my satisfaction by break cleaner spray, and tested. But before putting to practical use, the barrel is also fouled, by this test on the range.

In that way I have perfect reliability in accuracy. It is combination of oil removal with break cleaner spray plus making few fouling shots on the range.

 

[sestoppelman]

I always clean bores after range trips and will remove heavy deposits of copper, but not usually all of it. For hunting I do final sight in, then leave it alone but for one pull of the Bore Snake before travel.
While hunting I might do the same every couple days, just a snake pull, when trip is over I give the bore a good soak with Hoppes and head home.

 

[Rubberhead]

Thank you for asking the question. It helps me believe that I'm not crazy.

 

[Nhoro]

So I have been using Ed's red for general cleaning and I use it after a range session.
1/ To get out any carbon fouling. I believe carbon deposits harden up over time.
2/ To prevent rust. So there is a light coat of oil in my rifles as I type.

I then run a dry patch before going to the range or hunting although sometimes I have fired my rifles with that light oil coat. I have not been too particular about copper fouling. About once every 50 rounds or so is about how often I give my rifles a really through clean with copper solvent and nylon brush on my 458 Lott. I havent used a bronze jag in years or a bore snake. Just an old school pull through. I figure a solvent is meant to dissolve and wire brushing your bore would only be need if it got really bad-fouling or rust. So I kind of lean towards the clean it often with a little oil but my cleaning is a light clean, not a deep clean. To be honest, I carry my rifles far more than I shoot them so they get cleaned for dust and rust prevention rather than fouling.

So my main concern was my 458 Lott. I carry it for walks with school kids etc and so I dont do any fouling shots. It goes on several trips without a shot being fired. It would only be shot at 10 m or so in self defense so it probably doesnt matter- I am thinking first shot variation is probably 0.3 " at 10 m.

 

[Cleveland48]

My howa target rifle in 6.5 creedmoor gets cleaned about every 150-200 rounds. A clean copper stripped barrel does not affect its first shot at all. I have some hunting rifles that actually take 1-4 shots before it settles on a clean barrel though.