Does it matter to you?

[matt85]

I require my PH to carry a larger caliber gun than me.

 

[KTMpilot]

In South Africa where mostly PH’s work as independent contractors to outfitters, the rifles they work with and carry, and that are rented to clients, are owned by the PH and not the outfitter. In fact, a PH is normally not employable and won’t be used by an outfitter unless he comes with his own fully equipped truck, and a “battery” of rifles, normally a 30 cal/7mm, a 375 H&H, and then something starting with a 4 or a 5 if they are buffalo or DG qualified (it is possible in South Africa to be DG licenced as a PH only for buffalo).

All of that said, the percentage of PH’s in my country who can afford to own a double is very very low. So in South Africa if a client wants to limit his DG hunt only to a PH carrying a double, that is his right, but would be seriously limiting and denying himself very many excellent and safe hunting opportunities for really no good reason.

Also, we do not much use the term “stopper rifle” where I PH (I am a current licenced buffalo PH). We loosely call the rifle carried by the PH guiding a buffalo hunt a “backup rifle”, of which the majority are bolt action 375’s, a large percentage bolt action 416 or 458’s, and the minority double rifles.
.

 

[grand veneur]

If I had to do backup professionally, for commercial reasons I would cultivate the image of the protective PH and deliver the expected show. I would appear with an appropriate outfit and rifle, preferably a big bore DR, just as the client imagines a PH with his rifle. After all, it is about business and advertising is also part of it.

 

[IvW]

500 Jeff 3+1 except leopard, there I switch to my 24 inch Brno sxs shotgun or 9.3x74R/12ga combination. 12ga only with Brenneke slugs, original.....

 

[coreydb]

Before I hunted my Cape, I asked my PH a a lot of questions regarding his back up procedures. I used my .375 H&H to down mine in four rounds while my PH held his .404 Jeffrey at the ready. I won't use a double rifle hunting DG, but not for dislike; because both shoulders are held in place by velcro....figuratively, due to military disability. I need a muzzle brake to soften the kickback.

 

[Bandera]

I never thought to question my PH about his choice of caliber.
I knew that he is an experienced PH, but the fact that he was carrying a 375 H&H was never a concern.

 

[Red Leg]

My leopard and three of my four buffalo were with PH's with whom I was hunting for the first time. So that is not a consideration for me. The fourth was a repeat performance with one of the first three. One was armed with a .416, one with a .458, and one with a .375. I could have cared less. They all three had far more experience with the game we were hunting than I, and none was there to try to imitate Stewart Granger.

In my experience, true stopping rifles (chambering begins with a 5) are pretty rare among even DG professionals. Jamy Traut does typically carry his .500 K-gun. One of the most experienced elephant hunting PH's I know, who is from the Don Heath school of professional hunting, carries a .375 and loves the 300 gr Hydro when he can get them. In his view, an inbound tusker needs to be brained - period. From his perspective, he can do that most quickly and accurately with his .375 - something he has proven to his satisfaction several times.

 

[Wiley64]

On my only dg hunt. My ph carried a double and had to use it to stop a mountain Reedbok of all things. I was very impressed with his shooting ability!

 

[318AE]

When hunting a Dagga Boy, elephant, or hippo, your PH should be carrying a proper stopping rifle—either a double in a true stopping calibre (.450 NE and up) or a bolt gun in an adequate calibre.

The question is: would you prefer one over the other, or do you not particularly care?

Let’s keep this discussion specific to Dagga Boy and elephant—no cats, please.

I’ve been fortunate enough to hunt with some very experienced, highly regarded PHs, some of which had 375s. On a hunt 25 years ago, I had a 416 and the PH a 375. It got me thinking.

My answer to your question is similar to others here. I want the PH to use the rifle they have the most confidence in etc.

Every PH I’ve talked to about this has always been focused on the utter reliability of the rifle (always bang, never click), not the caliber.

 

[SStomcat]

That‘s completely up to the PH. It‘s not the business of a hobbie hunter to think about that! Good grief, what a question! When you are at a hospital for a surgery, do you discuss with the surgeon the tools he gonna uses? You are a just a visiting hunter… I have received my first PH permit many years ago.

Yes, I will ensure that he is at the cutting edge of medical science in terms of equipment and processes.

 

[SStomcat]

500 Jeff 3+1 except leopard, there I switch to my 24 inch Brno sxs shotgun or 9.3x74R/12ga combination. 12ga only with Brenneke slugs, original.....

Can you elaborate on the use of slugs on leopard? I have seen many PH use them especially against a wounded animal.

 

[IvW]

Can you elaborate on the use of slugs on leopard? I have seen many PH use them especially against a wounded animal.

I find them very effective for the purpose. I prefer the original felt wad attached Brenneke slugs. The deliver very good stopping ability due to there size and penetration is absolute. Much more effective than buckshot......The benefit of the sxs shotgun at 24" is the light weight, short barrels so you could use it with one hand for the second shot if need be. Mine has been fitted with a ghost ring rear site.....I have used it on many pg during testing.

 

[Foxi]

I am very good friends with two black Phs in Zimbabwe.
Both only carry the .375 H+H.
On my last hunt, one of them only had the 300gn TSX in his magazine, ammunition that a guest had given him.
Africa is poor, and black people are poorer than we think.
In terms of experience, probably no one here can compete with them: one has shot over 500 elephants with this caliber, the other about 70(only solids,sure).
What really matters?
A show-off with a .577 or someone who knows what they're doing?
The last question is heretical, I know, and we were attacked by elephants several times last time, and you don't feel so good when you know you only have the TSX in your magazine .Mark Sullivan would say:leave them.
Nevertheless, I'm looking forward to going big game hunting with them again.
Any time.
I have a little experience now, too.

 

[roklok]

Both my PHs in my limited experience carried doubles, one a Heym 470, one a Krieghoff 500. It was cool seeing the doubles, and even cooler that I was allowed to shoot my zebra with his .500, however I would not of thought twice if they were carrying bolt actions. Both hunt buff and elephant regularly and their experience matters much more than what they choose to be armed with.

 

[rookhawk]

I question the judgement and financial means of a seasoned PH hunting large DG with anything less than a 500 caliber. Professionals use 500NE, 500 Jeff, 505 Gibbs, and .577NE.

A few old-timer friends are still using their antique 470NE doubles they've practiced with for longer than I've been alive, I don't fault them.

IF a PH shows up with a 375HH, 416, or some half-broken 458WM abomination, I question their means/competence/judgement.

My first safaris were with the latter, where their rifle was completely hosed, broken sights, ammo coming apart, cracked stock, etc. I don't hunt with those sorts of PHs any longer.

 

[Sarg]

I also believe the PH and his skill and temperament is more important than the size of the gun

Haha the old Size Doesn’t Matter Eh !

But good call !

 

[SStomcat]

I question the judgement and financial means of a seasoned PH hunting large DG with anything less than a 500 caliber. Professionals use 500NE, 500 Jeff, 505 Gibbs, and .577NE.

A few old-timer friends are still using their antique 470NE doubles they've practiced with for longer than I've been alive, I don't fault them.

IF a PH shows up with a 375HH, 416, or some half-broken 458WM abomination, I question their means/competence/judgement.

My first safaris were with the latter, where their rifle was completely hosed, broken sights, ammo coming apart, cracked stock, etc. I don't hunt with those sorts of PHs any longer.

I agree, and I appreciate how directly you’ve taken the bull by the horns on this. It’s a radical departure from conventional thinking, but it’s clearly thought through.