Disappointed In My New 404 Jeffery

[Tanks]

My .500 MDM wildcat weighs about 8.5 lbs and shoots a 500 grain bullet CEB solid between 2368 - 2371 fps (just looked at my load data) out of a 20" barrel.

No issue with recoil. However, it has a custom Accurate Innovations stock with their patented aluminum bedding that helps with recoil. I do have a 1" Pachmayr recoil pad on it as well.

So, I'd submit it is the fit and the design of the stock rather than the firearm that is causing you discomfort.

 

[expresshunt]

Install a good thick Decelerator or Kickeze pad.

Exactly Newboomer... and Limbsaver.. first thing I do on all over 300cals... Boy do they make a great difference. Yes they get sticky or fail sometimes in tropics or with oils.. but I can live with that for a bit less sharpness (and replace again if needed). I have even removed and thrown out the last 2 hard pads on Rigbys, the old CZ ones from EU were damn hard too.. and Ruger.. ouch.!! I stand such rifles with these softer pads on the muzzle in the gun cabinet, prevents a small flat spots on the pad. Fitted one to a Tikka superlite in 300WSM, did good.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Definitely the 14 3/4. I’m not a big guy but it’s definitely more comfortable.

Correct LOP, or even a bit longer, means the whole area of the pad will likely be seating firmly on the shoulder, therefore the force will be spread. If only half is seating firmly, for example, force will be double. Makes a big difference. Also, when the butt is well seated under some pressure the impulse disappears because the weight is now effectively the rifle plus you.

 

[expresshunt]

My .500 MDM wildcat weighs about 8.5 lbs and shoots a 500 grain bullet CEB solid between 2368 - 2371 fps (just looked at my load data) out of a 20" barrel.

No issue with recoil. However, it has a custom Accurate Innovations stock with their patented aluminum bedding that helps with recoil. I do have a 1" Pachmayr recoil pad on it as well.

So, I'd submit it is the fit and the design of the stock rather than the firearm that is causing you discomfort.

Love to see a side on video of that one fired...
Good Eli stopper.?

 

[expresshunt]

Andrew, Toby, et al, My Miroku Winchester 1895 .405 WCF weighs just under 8 pounds and the recoil with 400 grain bullets at 2100 fps is noticeable. Not bad enough to keep me from hunting with it, but enough to get my attention. However, it does kill Cape Buff and everything that I shoot with it.

Had a friend from TX bring out the same 405.. just for fun I kept telling him our Buffalo would be too tough and to shoot all 5 rounds.. So the first bull had 3 perfect shots in it before it skidded to a halt. I need one of these in hunt camp...

 

[expresshunt]

Bear in mind Hornady ammo in the 404 is way up in the performance spectrum of the 404. They do 2350-2400fps. Bring the load down to 2200fps and you will be fine. But another 1lb of weight in the gun won't hurt!

Hornady... a USA client Lowry, in 2019 had a lovely newish custom pre 64 404 with swaro scope.. I asked for a shot with scope off, Hornady factory ammo, rifle felt light around 8 1/2lb. Offhand, first shot was good, amazed me I expected sharper for that weight, so I fired again, was still nicer than most bare 416 rigbys. Immediately I ordered 'exactly the same'.. its on its way atm. Lowry weighed it at 8.6lb. I know this is too light for most, but this rifle is for carrying for weeks, and will later wear a scope as my eyes are aging quicker now, and weight will come up. When hunting with 400 cals and bigger on dangerous game, we dont seam to remember the recoil, just that awesome sight picture. His Hornady ammo worked well.

 

[Andrew Short]

@sestoppelman the quote marks are a newly learned process of making clear to the reader that anything inside the quotes is probably false. It is used when statements of politicians are reported in the media. Also, the technique is employed when hunters say things like “this is the last rifle I will buy” or “I’ll be home at 6:30 p.m.” or “I’m just planning a 2 day hunt”.

Actually it was an accident on my part. Using the phone...

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

My wife who is a Zimbabwe PH uses either .404J custom CZ bolt rifle, no muzzle brake or her Heym .450-.400 double. Both use factory Hornady ammo. Both have Kick EEZ pads her .404J is a 13 3/4 LOP, I am sorry I do not know the weight (no scope). I believe both stocks fit her correctly with adequate butt surface area.

I would look at stock design, LOP a Kick EEZ pad or Limbsaver add a mercury recoil reducer if necessary. Sorry I cannot say anything good about muzzle brakes and if you verbally replied to me I would not be able to hear you anyway, thanks to muzzle brakes (not mine).

Good luck .404J is a great caliber. I believe the .416R is better, but at the expense of additional recoil.

 

[thriller]

You could always give me the rifle and I’ll deal with the issues.

 

[Andrew Short]

My wife who is a Zimbabwe PH uses either .404J custom CZ bolt rifle, no muzzle brake or her Heym .450-.400 double. Both use factory Hornady ammo. Both have Kick EEZ pads her .404J is a 13 3/4 LOP, I am sorry I do not know the weight (no scope). I believe both stocks fit her correctly with adequate butt surface area.

I would look at stock design, LOP a Kick EEZ pad or Limbsaver add a mercury recoil reducer if necessary. Sorry I cannot say anything good about muzzle brakes and if you verbally replied to me I would not be able to hear you anyway, thanks to muzzle brakes (not mine).

Good luck .404J is a great caliber. I believe the .416R is better, but at the expense of additional recoil.

I’ll be buying a limbsaver pad for sure. I’m not sure how to go about adding weight to the rifle.

I have a thread protector for the brake. The noise is ridiculous!!!

 

[Andrew Short]

You could always give me the rifle and I’ll deal with the issues.

Hahaha I’ll give it to you with a little monetary compensation

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Best way to add weight to the Rifle is either lead or a Mercury recoil reducer in the stock. Just try to keep the rifle balanced any good gunsmith should be able to handle this.

I have nothing against Limbsaver other than for the fact that they are a bit more prone to external damage. I install a lot of Kick-EEZ pads for people over here, invariably I install the 11/2 pad. If you do this you will end up with a 14 1/4" LOP. That solves the LOP problem.

Someone mentioned using the slip over recoil pad for a try, I totally recommend this approach. We always keep one or two in camp!!

Next examine the stock was it designed for a scope or Iron sights, look at the thickness of the comb. Is it thick and round or thin and sharp. These things are going to have a heck of a lot to do with FELT recoil. I am also a believer in not shooting from a SITTING bench any more than you have to in any heavy recoiling rifle. Unfortunately STANDING benches are hard to find. Yes you can and should learn to shoot from sticks, but it is not the same.

I have three rifles in .404J. One is a custom CZ, a bit heavy nice stock design. One is an original .404J rifle with a Bell and Carlsen stock. One is a Original Rigby, rebored by Rigby to .404J.
Felt recoil from mildest to hardest Custom CZ, original Jefferies with Bell and Carlson stock, Rigby. The Rigby has a typical Englsh stock thin "sharp" comb and not a lot of pad surface area (original English pad).

 

[Andrew Short]

Just curious as to what type of recoil pad is on it? As for the muzzle break, although I don’t own one, they’re good for clearing out the benches next to you when at the range, and then take it off when hunting?

We have acreage and have built a range so that’s not an issue.

 

[Andrew Short]

Best way to add weight to the Rifle is either lead or a Mercury recoil reducer in the stock. Just try to keep the rifle balanced any good gunsmith should be able to handle this.

I have nothing against Limbsaver other than for the fact that they are a bit more prone to external damage. I install a lot of Kick-EEZ pads for people over here, invariably I install the 11/2 pad. If you do this you will end up with a 14 1/4" LOP. That solves the LOP problem.

Someone mentioned using the slip over recoil pad for a try, I totally recommend this approach. We always keep one or two in camp!!

Next examine the stock was it designed for a scope or Iron sights, look at the thickness of the comb. Is it thick and round or thin and sharp. These things are going to have a heck of a lot to do with FELT recoil. I am also a believer in not shooting from a SITTING bench any more than you have to in any heavy recoiling rifle. Unfortunately STANDING benches are hard to find. Yes you can and should learn to shoot from sticks, but it is not the same.

I have three rifles in .404J. One is a custom CZ, a bit heavy nice stock design. One is an original .404J rifle with a Bell and Carlsen stock. One is a Original Rigby, rebored by Rigby to .404J.
Felt recoil from mildest to hardest Custom CZ, original Jefferies with Bell and Carlson stock, Rigby. The Rigby has a typical Englsh stock thin "sharp" comb and not a lot of pad surface area (original English pad).

In my opinion it’s designed more for a scope. The comb is thinner than my Ruger.

I will talk to the the local smith about adding some weight. I’ve hand loaded some 82 and 84 grain rounds with 4350 and will see how that feels in terms of recoil.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Sitting at a rifle bench, particularly the American style with a lot of forward lean, is punishing to shoot big bores. Try sitting on a lower stool or raise your sand bags with blocks of wood. Shooting more upright will allow your upper body to move with the recoil, as opposed to absorbing it all.

To create a standing shooting bench, I have taken the wood stool and set them on top of the shooting bench. I use one sand bag and it's close to the perfect height for me.

For extended range sessions with my 375 or 404, I wear an Evo Shield shirt and/or use a Lead Sled.

Shooting Shirts | EvoShield

www.evoshield.com

Note: Evo Shield recommends buying one size smaller than your normal T shirt. These are compression fit shirts and you want a snug, tight fit. The pad is thin and custom fits to your shoulder.

 

[colorado]

Just put 5 rounds down range with my 500 Jeffery and your 404 won't kick at all

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I believe a rifle should be properly balanced which can mean more than just adding weight to the butt stock. I thin strip of lead can be added inside of the fore end just below the barrel. There use to be a thin mercury recoil reducer that could be fitted into the fore end, but I do not believe they are still available. I do believe if you have to go 10lbs. or heavier something is very wrong for this caliber.

If you look in the very fine book "Shooting the British double rifle", I believe the authors name is "Wright". They have a picture of the standing shooting bench at Holland and Holland and a description of its use, so much easier on your face, shoulder and back.

If you look in some of the shotgun shooting sports magazines there use to be adds for "Cheeksavers", no more than a "soborethane" adhesive pad in various thicknesses that can be added to the comb. This may help depending on where your felt recoil troubles you the most. Not pretty, but helps!

One thing that was not mentioned was barrel contour. A light weight barrel in a medium weight stock can contribute greatly to barrel flip, which can greatly contribute to a sore cheekbone.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Just put one of these on my 375 Ruger

Cheek Pads For Rifles, Shotguns & Other Long Guns | God'A Grip

God'A Grip Cheek Pads enhances accuracy, comfort and consistency with rifles, shotguns and other long guns. There are currently 6 models to choose.

godagrip.com

 

[CoElkHunter]

We have acreage and have built a range so that’s not an issue.

I was just kidding about that anyways.

 

[Andrew Short]

I was just kidding about that anyways.

That’s the truth though. It’s miserable to sit beside.