COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

[curtism1234]

I’d like to respectfully ask one question of all of those that are in favor of universal vaccination. If the vaccine works, and you have received it, why do you care what others choose to do?

I am not interested in debating but I will answer.

A multitude of reasons

1. Protecting the people that can not get the vaccine, including children who are going to be in for a very bad winter with Delta. Delta is not the original strain

2. Helping prevent the creation of mutations that could potentially laugh at the current vaccine and destroy the progress we made.

3. To be good global citizens. We no longer live in an isolated world. A lot of 3rd world countries are struggling to vacinnate their citizens and here we are jumping on planes going to those countries or their citizens are coming here for family. That circles back to #2

If or when we get the point that every single person in the world is able to get the shot 2x a year and the strain is not killing 300,000-600,000 US citizens a year, then I am for choice. Right now, choice is not an option imo. The vaccine is safe, the vaccine is effective. Here i am sitting at home on a Saturday evening protecting my 2 year old because the covid deniers are out in full force spreading the rona.

 

[davsel]

The spike protein, the one the "vaccines" cause your cells to produce, are the problem

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajplung.00223.2021

SARS-CoV-2 spike protein S1 induces fibrin(ogen) resistant to fibrinolysis: implications for microclot formation in COVID-19

Abstract. Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-Cov-2)-induced infection, the cause of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19), is characterized by unprecedented clinical pathologies. One of the most important pathologies, is hypercoagulation and microclots in the lungs of patients...

portlandpress.com

 

[Longwalker]

davsel, your statement is completely bass ackwards. The mRNA vaccines produce an antibody by activating the patients natural immune system so they produce antibodies that bind onto the "spike protein" antigen of COVID-19 to render it harmless and mostly non-infectious. Vaccinated ( or recovered infected ) people do not produce antigens, they produce antibodies. Really basic science.

 

[flat8]

I am not in favour of forced universal vaccination. I respect individual choice. But choices have consequences. Your choice may limit your freedoms. Hard fact, but true. I also respect the policy decisions of governments, businesses, and individuals who are intelligent enough to make their decisions based on logic and statistics and properly tested hypotheses and scientifically valid procedures.

@Longwalker - Hard fact: Its obvious based on your comment that you don’t know the science. You don’t know me, but I promise you that I can run circles around you on this issue. I agree that ‘choices have consequences,’ but those consequences should not be dictated by people who are unwilling to incorporate new data into the equation. You want to limit my freedoms? My answer is no.

 

[Rocked and Loaded]

I would not travel internationally if I was unvaccinated. I would not hunt with an outfit whose staff was not fully vaccinated. Others are free to choose to stay home if they don't accept the science of vaccines.

If you’re vaccinated why do you care if the staff of your outfitter are vaccinated?

I ask this as someone who is vaccinated.

 

[sierraone]

I can run circles around you on this issue.

I realize your comment wasn't directed at me. And I am in no way offended by it. I am sure many of you can run circles around me on this issue. I would suggest that one, or many of you, I don't know, find a medical journal that has a forum attached to it and take this conversation there. At least then, I would hope that anyone that goes there has medical interest and knowledge to argue with others about this subject and this forum could continue to be used for hunting in Africa and a few other select places. And a few other related subjects like maybe big bore rifles.

 

[davsel]

davsel, your statement is completely bass ackwards. The mRNA vaccines produce an antibody by activating the patients natural immune system so they produce antibodies that bind onto the "spike protein" antigen of COVID-19 to render it harmless and mostly non-infectious. Vaccinated ( or recovered infected ) people do not produce antigens, they produce antibodies. Really basic science.

In order for our immune system to produce antibodies, it must be presented with the pathogen it wants to attack; the Corona virus protein is what the MRNA "vaccines" introduce/create within our body's own cells.

Here's a great video from last December by a proponent of MRNA "vaccine" tech. Watch the whole thing, or skip to the 14 minute mark to learn about how the virus proteins are produced within our bodies.

 

[Rimshot]

If you’re vaccinated why do you care if the staff of your outfitter are vaccinated?

I ask this as someone who is vaccinated.

Like almost everything else in life, it's not a simple binary. That's not how any of this works. It is extremely attractive to want something to be the one "thing that works" and fix it, but there is no one thing. Mask - reduces risk but doesn't make you invulnerable. Social distancing - reduces risk but doesn't make you invulnerable. Being young and skinny - reduces risk but doesn't make you invulnerable. Vaccine - greatly reduces risk for serious disease, and reduces chance of infection, but doesn't make you invulnerable.

Having been vaccinated has never meant "100% protection" for ANY disease in history. These mRNA vaccines are extremely good, however. Individuals respond differently to the vaccine, depending on age, sex, health (immunosuppressed), and time. All of these will determine the amount of antibodies you carry at any given moment that neutralize the SarsCoV2 spike protein, and your killer B/T cells. That determines how much virus you can be exposed to before you become infected, and once infected how severe your disease might be.

A vaccinated person is much less likely to become infected with the SARS-CoV2 virus in the first place, meaning that your interaction with other vaccinated people is statistically safer. Even if you are vaccinated you can still get sick (see above), which would still ruin your hunt, which is why I'd personally want to be around vaccinated people given the choice. This is a first for most of us, a disease that is so widespread you are likely to encounter it everywhere. In a case like that, the statistics of things that reduce your risk of becoming infected are highly relevant. Hope that helps your understanding.

 

[shootist~]

If you’re vaccinated why do you care if the staff of your outfitter are vaccinated?

I ask this as someone who is vaccinated.

How will your hunt go if your PH goes down with Covid?

 

[fish hunter]

View attachment 422246

The Story of Ivermectin

rumble.com

 

[shootist~]

Even the manufacturer states there is no scientific basis or meaningful evidence Ivermectin is effective against COVID. However, many of the tractor supply stores say their shelves are empty.

Patients overdosing on ivermectin backing up rural Oklahoma hospitals, ambulances

A rural Oklahoma doctor said patients who are taking the horse de-wormer medication, ivermectin, to fight COVID-19 are causing emergency room and ambulance back ups.

www.wfla.com

 

[Rimshot]

Even the manufacturer states there is no scientific basis or meaningful evidence Ivermectin is effective against COVID. However, many of the tractor supply stores say their shelves are empty.

Patients overdosing on ivermectin backing up rural Oklahoma hospitals, ambulances

A rural Oklahoma doctor said patients who are taking the horse de-wormer medication, ivermectin, to fight COVID-19 are causing emergency room and ambulance back ups.

www.wfla.com

Debunked/retracted:

One Hospital Denies Oklahoma Doctor's Story of Ivermectin Overdoses Causing ER Delays for Gunshot Victims

The hospital says it hasn't experienced any care backlog due to patients overdosing on a drug that's been falsely peddled as a covid cure

www.rollingstone.com

Apparently everyone wants a "story" and is willing to make it up out of whole cloth. Not endorsing Ivermectin, as there isn't enough data out there to draw conclusions. I take a skeptical view of any of these panicked, click-bait anecdotes.

 

[lwaters]

My neighbor works at Tractor Supply and says a bunch of people come in the store asking for Ivermecton. The story goes on like it help a friend of a friend ect.

 

[shootist~]

The important part of the story I posted was the doctor pointing out the dangers of taking a vetinaty version of a drug (and guessing at the dosage) - instead of the human version with a proper prescription.

 

[Rimshot]

The important part of the story I posted was the doctor pointing out the dangers of taking a vetinaty version of a drug (and guessing at the dosage) - instead of the human version with a proper prescription.

Yes, it is the height of stupidity to self-medicate based on rumor and watching modern snake oil salesmen on youtube, instead of doing well proven and extremely safe/effective things (like getting vaccinated).

I think that these "well meaning lies" are highly damaging to the credibility of experts though, and therefore counterproductive. I think that attitude of the elites, that worked so well before the information age, is at least partly responsible for the idiotic behavior we've seen and vaccine hesitancy.

 

[Mekaniks]

Yes, it is the height of stupidity to self-medicate based on rumor and watching modern snake oil salesmen on youtube, instead of doing well proven and extremely safe/effective things (like getting vaccinated).

I think that these "well meaning lies" are highly damaging to the credibility of experts though, and therefore counterproductive. I think that attitude of the elites, that worked so well before the information age, is at least partly responsible for the idiotic behavior we've seen and vaccine hesitancy.

D Ronna thinning the herd one stupid person at a time......

 

[sgt_zim]

I would not. It is inevitable that everyone is going to contract it. There are better predictors of good outcomes than the vaccine - namely a serum Vitamin D level of 50-60ng/mL and an absence of co-morbidities like obesity, Type II diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc.

Every single medication you ingest carries a level of risk. The long term risk of these mRNA "vaccines" is utterly unknown.

The best defense against this is to be healthy - shed the excess weight and get your Vitamin D level up.

 

[Rimshot]

Disclaimer: Not trying to change anyone's mind here, and I'm highly opposed to almost all gov coercion. Just some thought food. I would like to offer some counterpoints though @sgt_zim

It is inevitable that everyone is going to contract it.

Maybe. People catch influenza once per decade on average. I see no hurry or benefit of becoming infected, as you likely can get it again at some point when your immunity wanes.

There are better predictors of good outcomes than the vaccine - namely a serum Vitamin D level of 50-60ng/mL and an absence of co-morbidities like obesity, Type II diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc.

I believe this is completely false, but admittedly I don't remember the numbers for vitamin D. Studies have the vaccines providing a ~20x reduction in severe disease outcomes. CDC has several case studies out, as does Moderna and probably the others too.

If you can show some studies that claim obesity and low vitamin D increasing severe Covid 20x, I'll stand corrected. I did some searching and didn't see any. Best I could find was obesity increasing severe disease ~3x per CDC, which is blown away by being unvaccinated vs vaccinated at 20x.

At any rate, 2/3 of Americans are overweight or obese, and they can't well change that overnight. Would you recommend they get the vaccine then?

Every single medication you ingest carries a level of risk. The long term risk of these mRNA "vaccines" is utterly unknown.

Technically true. As vaccines go however, these are low risk compared to others. The trials were very open and thorough. By now, billions of people have gotten one of the vaccines. Without a doubt, some have been harmed by it. The statistical risk of being harmed by the virus is several orders of magnitude greater than by the vaccine however. By choosing inaction (not getting vaccinated), you're still making a choice to put yourself at much greater personal risk, statistically.

It's true this is the first mRNA one on the market. Scientists have been using mRNA for a long time and understand how it works. Sure, it's possible there's a hidden long term affect, but extremely unlikely. Almost every vaccine ever attempted shows it's negative effects within a couple of months. These have been out in humans for over a year without some surprise third arm growing. The reason vaccine trials normally take so long is because it takes years for enough people in the trial to become infected with the disease, not because they're waiting to see a hidden vaccine side effect years later.

Have you thought about the long term effects of becoming infected? You have a chance of all sorts of disability, organ damage, chronic fatigue, etc. I even saw one large study of Covid disease causing IQ scores to drop in people who had recovered, roughly proportional to how severe the infection was. This happened even in people with a 'minor' infection. We're still learning about the virus too, so this isn't a case of going with the 'devil you know'.

Cognitive biases are not doing us any good during this pandemic. I'd argue we need to crunch the numbers in a detached, analytical way and reject our instincts and intuition if we want to be competent risk assessors.

 

[sgt_zim]

Vitamin D and COVID-19: The Current State of the Evidence

Note: You can watch my presentation based on this research from the 2021 Ancestral Health Symposium here, watch a much longer video that covers missing slides and answers questions about the talk here, download a PDF of my slides here, and see a short list of minor corrections to the presentation in

chrismasterjohnphd.com

I wonder if you've done any research at all.

Directly from the CDC on obesity and covid: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

Further, this pathogen is far more easily transmissible than any of the flus we've seen in the last century, so yeah, it is inevitable everyone is going to catch it.

This is a deadly disease for fat people, who *always* have multiple co-morbidities. For the rest of us, still a risk, but a small one.

Good for you if you took the vaccine. My mother and my M-i-L also had the vax, both of them got covid, and they were both in worse shape than I ever got.

It is utterly criminal the way we're treating this pathogen. Name any other instance of pathogen or disease where the protocol is to wait until a patient is at death's door before providing any treatment.

"Well yes, you do have stage 1 pancreatic cancer, but protocol says we have to wait until you're at stage 4 before we can begin treating you."

Everyone, no matter the pathogen, who presents with ARDS has a significant risk of a bad outcome.

 

[Rimshot]

Vitamin D and COVID-19: The Current State of the Evidence

Note: You can watch my presentation based on this research from the 2021 Ancestral Health Symposium here, watch a much longer video that covers missing slides and answers questions about the talk here, download a PDF of my slides here, and see a short list of minor corrections to the presentation in

chrismasterjohnphd.com

I wonder if you've done any research at all.

Directly from the CDC on obesity and covid: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm

Did you research? Did you even read the link you posted?

"Obesity was a risk factor for both hospitalization and death, exhibiting a dose-response relationship with increasing BMI category: aRRs for hospitalization ranged from 1.07 (95% confidence interval [CI = 1.05–1.09]) for patients with a BMI of 30–34.9 kg/m2 to 1.33 (95% CI = 1.30–1.37) for patients with a BMI ≥45 kg/m2 (Figure 1) compared with those with a BMI of 18.5–24.9 kg/m2 (healthy weight); aRRs for death ranged from 1.08 (95% CI = 1.02–1.14) for those with a BMI of 30–34.9 kg/m2 to 1.61 (95% CI = 1.47–1.76) for those with a BMI ≥45 kg/m2. Severe obesity was associated with ICU admission, with aRRs of 1.06 (95% CI = 1.03–1.10) for patients with a BMI of 40–44.9 kg/m2 and 1.16 (95% CI = 1.11–1.20) for those with a BMI ≥45 kg/m2. Overweight and obesity were risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation, with aRRs ranging from 1.12 (95% CI = 1.05–1.19) for a BMI of 25–29.9 kg/m2 to 2.08 (95% CI = 1.89–2.29) for a BMI ≥45 kg/m2. Associations with risk for hospitalization and death were pronounced among adults aged <65 years: aRRs for patients in the highest BMI category (≥45 kg/m2) compared with patients with healthy weights were 1.59 (95% CI = 1.52–1.67) for hospitalization and 2.01 (95% CI = 1.72–2.35) for death."

In my last post I just said Obesity had up to 3x increase in severe disease. It pales in comparison to the 20x increase in severe disease over not being vaccinated. Thank you for reaffirming this fact.

Further, this pathogen is far more easily transmissible than any of the flus we've seen in the last century, so yeah, it is inevitable everyone is going to catch it.

Measles is many times more transmissible than SARS-CoV2, I'm 41 and I've never had the measles, so that line of reasoning isn't so clear.

This is a deadly disease for fat people, who *always* have multiple co-morbidities. For the rest of us, still a risk, but a small one.

I agree, this virus could be much worse. We're lucky in some sense.

Good for you if you took the vaccine. My mother and my M-i-L also had the vax, both of them got covid, and they were both in worse shape than I ever got.

So, you have a sample size of 3, vs a sample size of millions. Basing important decision on anecdotes and tiny samples is a common mistake that too many of us are susceptible to.