Copper fouling in my Verney-Carron

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by dougfinn, Feb 13, 2019.

  1. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Elite

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    one day,
    you are fortunate indeed to have so many rifles that shoot 1/4 to 1/2 moa day in day out at those ranges.
    going to 1000 and 600 yd benchrest matches as well as 500m fly shoots, and looking at the wailing wall has presented not a lot of that kind of accuracy with guns built to benchrest standards with benchrest actions and barrels, and using solid benches and sophisticaed rests and rear bags.
    this with guys that specialize in these disciplines.
    they adjust loads for temperature and atmospheric conditions each day and during the day, and chase the rifling relationship to the bullet ogive 0.003 or less all the time.
    they use straightline dies and arbour presses.
    interestingly many of them only throw powder charges, although this is being supplanted by weighing more and more at longer ranges.
    fclass guys find it hard to guarantee 1/2 moa verticle, and sideways will always be bigger because even a couple of mph wind change, (undetectable) will move a bullet significantly.
    not only sideways, but up and down.
    such wind changes can also bend the light, making the target appear in a different place totally unnoticed.
    they clean every group in br, and then use a sighter target until the barrel settles again, usually 2 or 3 shots max.
    fclass guys cannot clean as often, as they have to shoot longer strings, and sometimes mark targets for other shooters.
    some fclass guys used to let cleaning go for 200 shots, but that has generally gone away now as guys have had accuracy go off.
    in your case statistics would suggest that the above is unnecessary, so you must go with what works for you.
    bruce.
     

  2. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    :E Rofl:OK, OK, I surrender :A Hold Breath:

    But seriously, 1 MOA is a 6" group at 600 yd, 8" group at 800 yd, etc. (well not quite exactly because 1 MOA is actually 1.047 " at 100 yd, which is why I use the mil rad system that is exactly 1 cm at 100 m). My understanding is that bench rest shooters involved in all the techniques you describe Bruce, and rightly so, shoot groups that are significantly smaller than that. Is not the current record a 0.282″ group at 600 yd? That is a bit smaller than 6" and I can see where everything you describe counts...

    I will confess that it has been a loooong time since I shot paper at these distances (just too cumbersome to do alone, the plates provide audible and visual feedback that the paper does not, etc.), but I shoot a 6" plate to 600 m, that the rifles indeed hit day in, day out, with match ammo, when I do my job with atmospherics and shooting form (prone, front bipod, rear monopod, shoulder pad, etc. etc.) :) The SSG 69 .308 has long printed 1/2 MOA groups verified on paper out to 300 yd; the Wilson Match bull barrel .223 Wylde Mk 12 prints genuine 1/4 MOA groups at 100 yd (I do not think that I ever shot it at paper further than that), the Armalite .308 Heavy Target MK 11 is harder to control but stays generally sub or around MOA, and the .300 Win Mag 5R Remington Defense Mk 13 rings the 12" plate at 1,000 measured meters (1,093 yd).

    I will stand happily corrected that this is not technically "1/4 to 1/2 MOA groups out to 600, 800 and 1,200 yd" as I said too quickly, and I happily grant you your point :A Clapping:, but my point still stands that the Bore Snake does not appear to have any nefarious effect on these rifles, nor on my hunting rifles, especially my matched pair of stainless Mark Vs (I have not shot seriously - i.e. other than on steel - the others in years, I must confess).
    I just shot some .257 Wby 100 gr TTSX and .340 Wby 225 gr TTSX that I just received, to make sure these new lots print as the previous lots did, and these barrels seem to still do OK despite suffering the Bore Snake every time they get out in the field, which has been quite a lot between actual hunts, coyote outings, and fun shooting days with friends...

    .257 Wby & .340 Wby zero @ 100 yd.JPG

    Piece my friend :) and, truly, I would think that the combustion gases jetting at 60,000 + PSI, 3,300 + F, and 3,000 + fps on the edge of the crown at the moment the bullet base leaves the barrel will do a lot more wearing than 3 pulls of a Bore Snake at the end of the day, but I may be wrong... and if I am wrong, I am lucky because my rifles do not seem to mind...
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  3. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Another priceless predictive keyboard gem: "Piece my friend" was obviously intended as "Peace my friend" :A Hug:
     

  4. raimanparoni

    raimanparoni AH Senior Member

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    For copper cleaning I use K2R oven cleaning foam. I put foam inside barrel and let it stay overnight (barrel horizontal). Next day I clean barrel with cotton batches. I renew procedure as long as batches turning blue. Then I clean barrel with gun oil.
    I think other oven cleaning foams work as well if they contains ammonia( NH3)
     

  5. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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  6. Philip Glass

    Philip Glass AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    As my late brother used to say there are those that shoot guns and then there are those that clean guns.
    I agree people worry too much about cleaning.
    Philip
     

  7. Philip Glass

    Philip Glass AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Try Wipeout. It will help you. I am gravely concerned about the steel wool damaging the barrel.
     

  8. SFRanger7GP

    SFRanger7GP New Member

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    A firearm is like a BBQ grill; they work best when seasoned.

    Safe shooting
     
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