CBL Banned??

[TXhunter65]

Always love these CBL hunt threads......

 

[Foxi]

Where are you getting this from ? Seeing nothing on the internet other than Ministerial discussions from mid 2025, planning on banning new facilities & cub petting operations & the like. Nothing on an outright ban in hunting CBL.

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"Thats Africa Safari " Valie Enslin, told me this for a few weeks.
Ask him for the scource, he is a member of AH.

 

[Huntforever]

Your inventory getting eaten is bad for business…

Releasing a specific animal from captivity just to be hunted isn’t really a hunt, in my opinion.

Has anyone ever booked a CBL hunt and gone home without killing one? It’s harvesting.

The usual rebuttal is that South African operations release antelope too and nobody complains about that. The difference is that on good operations those antelopes are part of self sustaining populations. They reproduce, create multiple generation on the land, and actually live and interact naturally.

The CBL system isn’t that in the slightest.

Some people just want to check a box it seems… conservation and a true wildlife experience be damned! A bucket list animal that they will kill by any means.

There is no conservation fullcircle moment in the CBL system. Theirs is no romance to it. It just feels wrong.

I guess to some that view point makes me a leftist anti hunter? Not reality but oh well.

Many, Actually most people can’t afford to hunt a free range lion and this is the only way they can hunt a lion. How about all safari’s lower their prices by 70k and then stop CBL hunts. lol

 

[Huntforever]

I have not done it, and I have some qualms about the process. But I have met someone who did it.

His take was that the lion reverted to type within two weeks, itself hunting naturally (the party came across the lion's own kills whilst hunting it), and the lion was de facto indistinguishable from a wholly wild animal.

The other argument in favour of the monetisation of lions - pay to cuddle the cute kittens! pay to gawp at the majestic king of the beasts! pay to hunt an old lion! - is that it actually increases the number of lion in existence, and their genetic diversity.

The real difficulty comes where an unscrupulous operator plants a sedated lion and invites bids.

There is an old Soviet story about some Eastern European dictator - Ceauşescu? - going on a bear hunt, and the local forester being pressured to ensure a big trophy. The forester goes off to arrange matters; the hunting party settles in the hide; and half-an-hour later the bear - procured from the circus - comes into the glade... riding a bicycle.

I agree there a wrong way to CBL hunts and a few have given others a bad name

 

[dchum]

Many, Actually most people can’t afford to hunt a free range lion and this is the only way they can hunt a lion. How about all safari’s lower their prices by 70k and then stop CBL hunts. lol

Yes people want to check a box and will do it by any means necessary, like killing a lion that was raised in captivity that was released for them and only them to kill.

I won’t ever get to afford a Bugatti or a Lambo….
There are things in life we can’t afford. So what.


Hunting is about conservation for me. Killing CBL lions does nothing for conservation.

The price argument is sad.

 

[Russ16]

I have very mixed feelings on CBL and see both sides.

The decided for me on whether our morning would do it is this. The average CBL hint seems to be about 5 days and a 100% success rate. Wild lion is 14+ days and a much lower success rate.

That tells me the two hunts can’t be in the same ballpark or even close.

So for me I’m not interested in taking a lion under the CBL parameters.

 

[375Fox]

I agree there a wrong way to CBL hunts and a few have given others a bad name

I suppose we can pretend it’s only a few. Most operate the same. Most PHs are hunting the same properties. Nearly all “hunts” occur in NW province because the legal release time is the shortest. It’s either 72 or 96 hours. The harvesting events are choreographed better than they once were and some of the old lies are fully in open so can’t be used anymore, so I guess it’s more honest than it once was. I’d really like to hear from one hunter who visited the breeding facility before their lion harvesting event. I think many would have a very different perspective if they picked out their lion, transported it to hunting area, then waited the required time for their hunt to start. There’s a lot more behind the scenes than the tracking experience.

 

[major hunter]

Yes people want to check a box and will do it by any means necessary, like killing a lion that was raised in captivity that was released for them and only them to kill.

I won’t ever get to afford a Bugatti or a Lambo….
There are things in life we can’t afford. So what.


Hunting is about conservation for me. Killing CBL lions does nothing for conservation.

The price argument is sad.

Couldn't you say the same for the bred buffalo or "record class" plains game trophies on the game ranches in SA? That's the model in SA and it works. There's always bad actors but they shouldn't set the norm.

 

[Rare Breed]

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The thread has digressed a few degrees from the OP into the spectrum of ethics & morals in CBL hunting. So allow me to come in here with a few lines of my experiences.

I had done both - a RSA CB lioness & a free ranging lioness. The one cost $ 6.000/- & the other you can add another zero to with a 2 at the front.

The RSA hunt I insisted on walking / tracking from the gate, carrying a Krieghoff .375 & iron sights & I wanted to shoot from withing 30 meters. We were 2 PHs, 2 trackers, my wife & I. We picnic'd in the veld & were out all day. Day 2 around 4 pm we tracked up on a lioness (approx 6 years) & I shot her with both barrels at about 20 meters.

The other hunt, I shot the lioness over a bait on day 2 in the early evening out of a blind at about 75 m with a scoped 9,3x62.

I know which one I would do again.

I have always believed that if it is legal & rocks your boat then do it. So much of today`s hunting is behind fences whether in Africa or the USA or Europe.

Would I hunt a CBL again, sure I would, same way I shoot reared pheasant & partridge in the UK or plains game on farms in RSA & Namibia. I also get a rush out of DG in Zim & Zambia. Would I hunt a lion in Zim ? I would love to, but that would be a huge chunk of $s out of my hunting budget for the next years!

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The one I went on the lion had been released three weeks before I came and was feeding on his kills. Just look for my video of that lion charging me dropping at 7 yards to see if this type hunt is a slam dunk non exciting hunt

 

[Tundra Tiger]

The one I went on the lion had been released three weeks before I came and was feeding on his kills. Just look for my video of that lion charging me dropping at 7 yards to see if this type hunt is a slam dunk non exciting hunt

This.

2 years ago I was seriously researching a lion hunt of this nature. I had a dedicated thread. And then I got derailed by divorce - my fun money wasn't deep enough to cover both.

I had a bunch of site sponsors offer deals. For some the release time was fairly short. But several had release times of about a month or more.

For those same site sponsors... I am potentially interested for 2027. If you choose not to believe me I do understand.

 

[375Fox]

The one I went on the lion had been released three weeks before I came and was feeding on his kills. Just look for my video of that lion charging me dropping at 7 yards to see if this type hunt is a slam dunk non exciting hunt

It might be exciting but it is a slam dunk. The success rate is 100% and always has been for anyone who is physically able and can shoot reasonably straight.

 

[Killingtime]

Be careful of the slippery slope.
The anti hunters are happy with one victory at a time.

I agree on this comment whole heartedly. In the states we have people who use dogs to hunt deer, bear, cats. I Have known so many hunters in the southern portion of the country who complain about deer dog hunters for one reason or another or hunters in the northern states where 70% of the state seems like it’s all corn and soybean fields complain about other states hunting over bait. Always seemed ridiculous to me. I’ve met hunters who hunt deer and elk but don’t agree with bear hunting or it’s fine but no dogs or bait. They ignore the fact hunting is not one dimensional. Hunt your hunt and live your life.
Anti hunters will never like us even if you hunted the most wild over abundant animal on earth and most of general population even hunters that I’ve met don’t agree with half the animals people on this forum chase. Walk into a bass pro shop and ask every person that comes in if they want to kill a duiker most hunters that have never hunted Africa or thought about it would be like why… I personally understand people chasing trophy’s and goals and could care less what anyone hunts as long as it’s legal. If you want to argue ethics that’s fine but using it as a excuse about anti hunters not liking it seem misguided.. they don’t even like themselves

 

[Killingtime]

It might be exciting but it is a slam dunk. The success rate is 100% and always has been for anyone who is physically able and can shoot reasonably straight.

Isn’t that most Texas hunting? You may not see the deer or insert species exact size you want but even the 50k acre low fence places have dozen of deer in feeders and fields because of no pressure and great food supply. On a strictly slam dunk basis is that not the same?

 

[Killingtime]

I suppose we can pretend it’s only a few. Most operate the same. Most PHs are hunting the same properties. Nearly all “hunts” occur in NW province because the legal release time is the shortest. It’s either 72 or 96 hours. The harvesting events are choreographed better than they once were and some of the old lies are fully in open so can’t be used anymore, so I guess it’s more honest than it once was. I’d really like to hear from one hunter who visited the breeding facility before their lion harvesting event. I think many would have a very different perspective if they picked out their lion, transported it to hunting area, then waited the required time for their hunt to start. There’s a lot more behind the scenes than the tracking experience.

Interesting I didn’t know that about the different release times

 

[375Fox]

I agree on this comment whole heartedly. In the states we have people who use dogs to hunt deer, bear, cats. I Have known so many hunters in the southern portion of the country who complain about deer dog hunters for one reason or another or hunters in the northern states where 70% of the state seems like it’s all corn and soybean fields complain about other states hunting over bait. Always seemed ridiculous to me. I’ve met hunters who hunt deer and elk but don’t agree with bear hunting or it’s fine but no dogs or bait. They ignore the fact hunting is not one dimensional. Hunt your hunt and live your life.
Anti hunters will never like us even if you hunted the most wild over abundant animal on earth and most of general population even hunters that I’ve met don’t agree with half the animals people on this forum chase. Walk into a bass pro shop and ask every person that comes in if they want to kill a duiker most hunters that have never hunted Africa or thought about it would be like why… I personally understand people chasing trophy’s and goals and could care less what anyone hunts as long as it’s legal. If you want to argue ethics that’s fine but using it as a excuse about anti hunters not liking it seem misguided.. they don’t even like themselves

What hunting activity combines cub petting and supplying bones for the Asian bone trade? This is an industry that didn’t exist before 30 years ago. It’s a farming practice with a unique harvesting method sold as hunting. It’s a disease on hunting that never should have gained support. For supposedly being “done right” now there is zero verification on these lions. They are raised as livestock, trucked to a hunting area, harvested a few hours to maybe a few weeks later with a 100% harvest rate. I’d think any hunter that educates themselves on CBL (and ignores the cheap price) would find it a reprehensible practice. Pick your lion here’s how they are raised before being turned loose.

 

[dchum]

Isn’t that most Texas hunting? You may not see the deer or insert species exact size you want but even the 50k acre low fence places have dozen of deer in feeders and fields because of no pressure and great food supply. On a strictly slam dunk basis is that not the same?

No it’s not the same. Being able to see deer as they naturally occur and look them over to find a suitable animal to try and kill?

You always get the lion you want.

Have you seen the advertisements? Color phase, pay extra for dark mane, cheaper for smaller mane.

Then they acquire a lion based upon the specifications of the hunt booked.

Comparing that to hunting deer on 50k acres is not the same to me.

I’ve done that but have not CBL hunted.

 

[Killingtime]

What hunting activity combines cub petting and supplying bones for the Asian bone trade? This is an industry that didn’t exist before 30 years ago. It’s a farming practice with a unique harvesting method called hunting. It’s a disease on hunting that never should have gained support. For supposedly being “done right” now there is zero verification on these lions. They are raised as livestock, trucked to a hunting area, harvested a few hours to maybe a few weeks later with a 100% harvest rate. I’d think any hunter that educates themselves on CBL (and ignores the cheap price) would find it a reprehensible practice. Pick your lion here’s how they are raised before being turned loose.

Is the Asian bone trade illegal? I’m asking genuinely? If it’s not then it’s like every animal that gets harvested over there that they sell to market after the hunter kills or culls, Or cutting off rhino horn on rhino farms and selling the horn legally. If it is illegal then That is a problem.
On the cub petting that does seem wrong to me if those cats are being used to hunt. familiarizing them to humans is not good. I’ve seen plenty of places where deer are “wild” but so used to people they would not be hard to kill in the slightest.

Although I’ve never hunted lion the danger seems legit on both types of hunts especially if you are stalking them. There are quite a few videos on YouTube of lion hunts in SA where they wound the lion and then they charge.(I’m sure the overall number of hunts that happens is low but it definitely can’t be zero).
Ruarke hunt on a wild lion didn’t seem to difficult in horn of the hunter. Yet I know some people hunt lion in the wild and go home empty handed… I haven’t heard from any of those people but I know they exist. I just think overall a lion is not like a leopard they are naturally not scared of anything so finding them the only real challenge beside the teeth and claws lol

Ps I’m about to watch that video

 

[Russ16]

Isn’t that most Texas hunting? You may not see the deer or insert species exact size you want but even the 50k acre low fence places have dozen of deer in feeders and fields because of no pressure and great food supply. On a strictly slam dunk basis is that not the same?

Yes and that doesn’t interest me either.

 

[375Fox]

Is the Asian bone trade illegal? I’m asking genuinely? If it’s not then it’s like every animal that gets harvested over there that they sell to market after the hunter kills or culls, Or cutting off rhino horn on rhino farms and selling the horn legally. If it is illegal then That is a problem.
On the cub petting that does seem wrong to me if those cats are being used to hunt. familiarizing them to humans is not good. I’ve seen plenty of places where deer are “wild” but so used to people they would not be hard to kill in the slightest.

Although I’ve never hunted lion the danger seems legit on both types of hunts especially if you are stalking them. There are quite a few videos on YouTube of lion hunts in SA where they wound the lion and then they charge.(I’m sure the overall number of hunts that happens is low but it definitely can’t be zero).
Ruarke hunt on a wild lion didn’t seem to difficult in horn of the hunter. Yet I know some people hunt lion in the wild and go home empty handed… I haven’t heard from any of those people but I know they exist. I just think overall a lion is not like a leopard they are naturally not scared of anything so finding them the only real challenge beside the teeth and claws lol

Ps I’m about to watch that video

There has been no CITES export quota from South Africa since 2019 but if you want the skull and bones it’s a different price. You can guess where they end up.
Supposedly no human habituated lions are used for hunting but again there is zero verification done. Breeders buy new genetics from where they want and farmers have no issues selling an animal to an outfitter that wants one. Their goal is obviously to maximize value from the animal.
CBL lions are more dangerous than wild lions. I have no disagreement there. It’s because they are more familiar with people than their wild counterpart combined with the hunting method.
There were a lot more lions and a lot more wilderness in Africa during Ruark’s time. There are only 30,000 wild lions left in Africa. They are out of space unfortunately. Probably was a much easier hunt in his day before human populations and cattle populations exploded also before being required to take 6+ year old lions. If you look at a map of lion populations in Africa it’s nearly exclusively hunting areas and national parks. The best areas do have very high success but also a very high price tag.

I really don’t care if there is a CBL farming industry. I only care that it’s unfortunately associated with hunting. It’s been a dishonest industry since the start when they claimed the lions came in from Botswana to sell hunts. Even now. The legal requirements for release are one number, SAPA is 7 days, PHASA says 28 days but PHASA members don’t even follow their own recommendations (see 21 days supposedly above and noted short release times). The industry recommendations only came about after the documentary “blood lions” exposed their industry. Some quick math should tell you a lioness being sold for $3000 could eat plains game worth more than that with 28 day release. The economics favor the shortest possible release time. Selling hunts favors outfitters telling potential clients a larger number. The slippery slope isn’t supporting banning CBL to me. It’s the hunters that want to be lied to to justify the pricing and consider it a hunt.

 

[Killingtime]

There has been no CITES export quota from South Africa since 2019 but if you want the skull and bones it’s a different price. You can guess where they end up.
Supposedly no human habituated lions are used for hunting but again there is zero verification done. Breeders buy new genetics from where they want and farmers have no issues selling an animal to an outfitter that wants one. Their goal is obviously to maximize value from the animal.
CBL lions are more dangerous than wild lions. I have no disagreement there. It’s because they are more familiar with people than their wild counterpart combined with the hunting method.
There were a lot more lions and a lot more wilderness in Africa during Ruark’s time. There are only 30,000 wild lions left in Africa. They are out of space unfortunately. Probably was a much easier hunt in his day before human populations and cattle populations exploded also before being required to take 6+ year old lions. If you look at a map of lion populations in Africa it’s nearly exclusively hunting areas and national parks. The best areas do have very high success but also a very high price tag.

I really don’t care if there is a CBL farming industry. I only care that it’s unfortunately associated with hunting. It’s been a dishonest industry since the start when they claimed the lions came in from Botswana to sell hunts. Even now. The legal requirements for release are one number, SAPA is 7 days, PHASA says 28 days but PHASA members don’t even follow their own recommendations (see 21 days supposedly above and noted short release times). The industry recommendations only came about after the documentary “blood lions” exposed their industry. Some quick math should tell you a lioness being sold for $3000 could eat plains game worth more than that with 28 day release. The economics favor the shortest possible release time. Selling hunts favors outfitters telling potential clients a larger number. The slippery slope isn’t supporting banning CBL to me. It’s the hunters that want to be lied to to justify the pricing and consider it a hunt.

Very informative thank you. Can those animals be used to rerelease in the wild to replenish lion stock? Or perhaps a question before that one is should they replenish lion stocks since unfortunately they are counter productive to man inhabiting the area?