Cartridge for dangerous first game

[Buffmen]

I have a question to ask you, as I have put in my presentation in AH, my next hunt will be my first dangerous hunt and I have an idea that it is a buffalo.
I want it to be a unique experience, and I don't know if the behavior of a buffalo in a fenced farm in South Africa really changes much to that of a buffalo in, for example, Botswana in the Okavango area, completely free. Since the price difference is substantial and I want to know if it really changes its way of being from being fenced to freedom.

Second, the fighters so far have been with a 30-06 and a 308 win.
I need a rifle that is good enough for a buffalo and also for future dangerous hunts since I want to complete the BIG 5.
I have thought of the 404 Jeffery, 416 Rigby, 450 Rigby and 505 Gibbs calibers. I want the rifle to be bolt action as I feel more confident and capable with this rifle.

The 404 Jeffery caliber calls my attention the most because of its low recoil compared to the rest of the calibers and its larger capacity magazine, but I don't know if it would be enough even for a frontal shot at an elephant, or if it would be underpowered and would i need a 416 Rigby or more powerful?

Due to the limitation of buying weapons in my country, I cannot have all the desired calibers, so I can only take one of those 4 options.

Please, if you say any caliber, tell me why, thank you very much, regards.

 

[318AE]

Hard to go wrong with a 404 Jeff - intended to duplicate the performance of a 450/400 NE. With bullets we have today, it punches harder than it did 100 years ago. You would not be “under gunned” for elephant. 375 H&H is the practical choice…

 

[Major Bonkers]

Work up to a buffalo. Start with plains game. Wait until your third trip.

 

[Tom Leoni]

Unless you plan on this hunt being the first of many for buffalo or thick-skinned dangerous game, I think you would be much better served with a .375. With a 300-gr bullet it will take a buffalo (or any other game) all day long, while also offering you the option to shoot a lighter bullet (e.g., 270gr) for any other type of animal you care to hunt around the world.

Yes, it's fun to own a cannon in a .400+ caliber, but realistically you won't enjoy it or use it nearly as much as a more versatile cartridge like the .375. Also, a .375 gives you better external ballistics, more choice in bullet weights and design, and considerably less recoil.

My second choice would be the .416.

 

[AimSmall]

Available rifles and ammunition may affect your decision, but the 404 performended perfectly on a large Australian water buffalo on Thursday. One and done. Have not used the 450 on game, but the recoil is significant. Same with the 505. Best of luck.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I have been successfully hunting the African Big 5 with .375 Holland & Holland Magnum caliber rifles ever since my first African safari in 1974, as you can see below.

It's merits are as follows:
- Easy availability of factory loaded ammunition/reloading components
- Wide range of available bullet weights (although the 300Gr is the only one you need)
- Flat trajectory
- Extreme accuracy
- Immense penetration
- Low recoil

The only place where it falls short, is for body shots on bull elephant. If you plan on hunting just the occasional elephant, then .375 Holland & Holland Magnum is perfectly okay. If I were to hunt a lot of elephant, then I would opt for a .505 Gibbs. But any decent caliber above .450 bore (such as .458 Lott or .450 Rigby) would be perfectly adequate assuming that you are using strongly constructed solid bullets (reasonably flattened at the point) of 500Gr or above at a velocity of above 2100 fps.

Herein, I must add that the .375 Holland & Holland Magnum is an excellent choice for brain shots on even the largest of bull elephant from ANY angle whatsoever (even frontal brain shots).

 

[Inline6]

Work up to a buffalo. Start with plains game. Wait until your third trip.

I do not understand this.

My first African hunt was for buffalo. Why wait? I would rather shoot another buffalo than hunt PG, it is just not the same type of hunting.

As far as what chambering to get in your new rifle. I would not overlook the 458Lott. The 404J is a old well respected round. It is not a soft recoiling round like many will have you believe. It is just physics. If a rifle weight is 9 pound and you have one chambered in 404J, 416Rigby, and 416REM. All shooting a 400gr bullet at 2400fps. The recoil is going to be pretty similar. Yes you can play with some powders to make the perceived recoil less than it is by a small margin.

For myself having shot animals with a 375h&h, 416REM, and a 458Lott. The reaction is noticeable between the 3. If today you said pick one now and hunt your buffalo, it would be my 458Lott. I would not feel underguned with any of them. As long as the bullet goes where you put it, the job will get done. Just remember, if you need ammo in Africa which one are you most likely to find, that's the one I would pick.

 

[WyoBull]

I shot my Buffalo last week with my 375 H&H and a 300 gr Barnes TSX which I hand loaded.
It performed flawlessly. The important thing is you uses a rifle you are 100% confident in shooting and handling. Bigger is definitely not better if you can’t shoot it well.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

Whatever you do don’t wait until your third safari to hunt buffalo. If you want to do it go ahead and do it. Tomorrow is not a given…….

Where does that concept even come from? I doubt the clients in the safaris of yesteryear were following that advice..

Is it a modern construct beginning in the mid twentieth century? Maybe when large scale game farming started? Is it something clients driven by ego came up with to establish some sort of superiority?

I can ALMOST see it as a practical thing for a client to gain experience hunting with a guide but your first time hunting DG is your first time hunting DG regardless so ultimately I see it as nonsensical.

Interesting to ponder on..

Rant over

 

[RR 314]

I do not understand this.

My first African hunt was for buffalo. Why wait? I would rather shoot another buffalo than hunt PG, it is just not the same type of hunting.

As far as what chambering to get in your new rifle. I would not overlook the 458Lott. The 404J is a old well respected round. It is not a soft recoiling round like many will have you believe. It is just physics. If a rifle weight is 9 pound and you have one chambered in 404J, 416Rigby, and 416REM. All shooting a 400gr bullet at 2400fps. The recoil is going to be pretty similar. Yes you can play with some powders to make the perceived recoil less than it is by a small margin.

For myself having shot animals with a 375h&h, 416REM, and a 458Lott. The reaction is noticeable between the 3. If today you said pick one now and hunt your buffalo, it would be my 458Lott. I would not feel underguned with any of them. As long as the bullet goes where you put it, the job will get done. Just remember, if you need ammo in Africa which one are you most likely to find, that's the one I would pick.

Exactly what I was going to state. Love my Lotts. As you mentioned elephant at some point, I would seriously consider the Lott. Love hearing that “thwack” followed quickly by death bellow.

For what it is worth, I have only hunted buffalo in S. Africa. I am not talking 5-10k hectares, but closer to 100k. Fences didn’t bother me as I rarely say them. Hell, on my last hunt I would have loved to be able to push the buffalo into a corner.

 

[Red Leg]

Get a .375. In the hands of clients it has killed more of the big 5 than all other options combined. All four of my bulls were killed cleanly with one shot from either a 300 gr TSX or A-Frame. On three I took insurance shots at animals that were already down. The same load has taken several cruiser loads of plains game.

Additionally, it is the easiest and most practical step up from the rifle you are currently using for wild boar or red stag.

I own a .404, .470, and 500/416. To date, only the .375 has accompanied me to Africa for thick skinned dangerous game.

Three of my bulls were free range and one was in the Limpopo. It too was a quality experience.

SOUTH AFRICA: Up Close In The Limpopo - Hunting Cape Buffalo With Phillip Bronkhorst

The morning started like many buffalo hunts anywhere with the fresh tracks of a small herd crossing a dirt trace cut through the bush. Phillip Bronkhorst, Pieter Taylor (one of Phillip's PHs), our tracker Josias, Rickey (a young videographer in training), and your faithful correspondent bailed...

www.africahunting.com

 

[Lance Hopper]

My first animal on the African continent was a Buffalo. Don’t wait or compromise!

 

[zephyr]

Each to their own... I have 2 375's in the safe, of the three Safaris I have been on not one have made the trip. those that made it; 400H&H, 450NE, 458 Lott and a 505 Gibbs, only the 400 wore a scope
My first hunt... Buff and Tuskless
Good luck lots of good info in this group

 

[Philip Glass]

Actually it is not much more expensive to hunt buffalo in a wilderness area versus a game ranch. I've just returned from another hunt with Dalton & York and their 10 day buffalo hunt is $14,500.
Unless you are planning to hunt many elephants I would consider a .375.

 

[Major Bonkers]

In answer to Inline6 and Wishfulthinker: I was in SA last year, and heard the story of an American real estate mogul and his son who had flown in to a five-star luxury ranch - it may have been bordering the Kruger. Over the course of the week, the son collected his 'Big 5', one a day. Mission accomplished, they flew out again.

I am slow, I hope, to disparage anyone who hunts in a way different to me. However, to shoot my buffalo took a week of tracking through the mopani, and it was the only animal that I shot.

This year, when I was out hunting biltongbeest, my son expressed a wish to shoot a kudu: it was his first time in Africa. Certainly not, I said: it's something you work up to. Innocent, our tracker, agreed: it's special.

The safaris described by Ruark and Hunter took place over months and thousands of acres; somewhere, I think, Hunter describes a single guided safari going through four separate countries. Those days have gone, and most of us do our hunting over a week or ten days in fenced ranches. If anyone wants to shoot a buffalo on his first trip, it is certainly possible, but I think that they would get more out of the experience by taking matters a little slower.

 

[WAB]

In answer to Inline6 and Wishfulthinker: I was in SA last year, and heard the story of an American real estate mogul and his son who had flown in to a five-star luxury ranch - it may have been bordering the Kruger. Over the course of the week, the son collected his 'Big 5', one a day. Mission accomplished, they flew out again.

I am slow, I hope, to disparage anyone who hunts in a way different to me. However, to shoot my buffalo took a week of tracking through the mopani, and it was the only animal that I shot.

This year, when I was out hunting biltongbeest, my son expressed a wish to shoot a kudu: it was his first time in Africa. Certainly not, I said: it's something you work up to. Innocent, our tracker, agreed: it's special.

The safaris described by Ruark and Hunter took place over months and thousands of acres; somewhere, I think, Hunter describes a single guided safari going through four separate countries. Those days have gone, and most of us do our hunting over a week or ten days in fenced ranches. If anyone wants to shoot a buffalo on his first trip, it is certainly possible, but I think that they would get more out of the experience by taking matters a little slower.

I had always wanted to hunt buffalo and had little to no interest in a ranch hunt for PG. my first trip to Africa was a buffalo hunt in the Luangwa valley. I became addicted to tracking hunts in wild places. I still have very little interest in ranch hunts for PG. I wouldn’t have done it any other way.

 

[mark-hunter]

I want it to be a unique experience, and I don't know if the behavior of a buffalo in a fenced farm in South Africa really changes much to that of a buffalo in, for example, Botswana in the Okavango area, completely free. Since the price difference is substantial and I want to know if it really changes its way of being from being fenced to freedom.

In the same dilemma, I took 375 H&H.
You said, that 4 other calibers is the only option in your country. I cannot imagine 404, 416 or 505 as available and 375 as not available. This is very strange. But, for sure you know the best.

On your comment, quoted above, on this forum experienced people said, that last 100 meters of stalking is the same always, for fenced hunt, and non fenced hunt

However, there have been some reports on the forum, when free range hunt, no fences was not successful. This means, no buffalo at all to be seen with reputable outfitter.
Also, in areas bordering national parks, wounded animals are sometimes lost after escaping to national park area where there is no hunting. Some things to consider.

 

[RR 314]

In the same dilemma, I took 375 H&H.
You said, that 4 other calibers is the only option in your country. I cannot imagine 404, 416 or 505 as available and 375 as not available. This is very strange. But, for sure you know the best.

On your comment, quoted above, on this forum experienced people said, that last 100 meters of stalking is the same always, for fenced hunt, and non fenced hunt

However, there have been some reports on the forum, when free range hunt, no fences was not successful. This means, no buffalo at all to be seen with reputable outfitter.
Also, in areas bordering national parks, wounded animals are sometimes lost after escaping to national park area where there is no hunting. Some things to consider.

I understood it as he was limited to how many guns he could own—not particular calibers. But for desire for elephant in the future, the .375 makes the most sense. I know Bell and others killed them with diminutive rifles and AKs probably lead the caliber tally these days, but that is why I recommended a larger caliber.

 

[Wishfulthinker580]

In answer to Inline6 and Wishfulthinker: I was in SA last year, and heard the story of an American real estate mogul and his son who had flown in to a five-star luxury ranch - it may have been bordering the Kruger. Over the course of the week, the son collected his 'Big 5', one a day. Mission accomplished, they flew out again.

I am slow, I hope, to disparage anyone who hunts in a way different to me. However, to shoot my buffalo took a week of tracking through the mopani, and it was the only animal that I shot.

This year, when I was out hunting biltongbeest, my son expressed a wish to shoot a kudu: it was his first time in Africa. Certainly not, I said: it's something you work up to. Innocent, our tracker, agreed: it's special.

The safaris described by Ruark and Hunter took place over months and thousands of acres; somewhere, I think, Hunter describes a single guided safari going through four separate countries. Those days have gone, and most of us do our hunting over a week or ten days in fenced ranches. If anyone wants to shoot a buffalo on his first trip, it is certainly possible, but I think that they would get more out of the experience by taking matters a little slower.

That approach is all well and good for someone who knows they’ll be coming back barring death.

I agree that there is a proper way to do things. Those people you used as an example very well could have been on the improper side of things but maybe not. Hard to know without knowing the details.

Just being in Africa is special enough. I think a person should do all they can, when they can.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I would advise 375 ... even though I just finished building a lovely 404 Jeffery on Mauser 98 action. It is much harder to find ammo or components for the 404. A 375 will kill buffalo, lion, leopard, and probably even rhino (but you more than likely will have to settle for darting one of those with specialty rifle). For elephant, you should borrow something heavier from PH/lodge. I shot my first two buffalo with 375 and only 250 gr Barnes bullets and they worked very well.

I just returned from my fourth safari. Spent four days chasing buffalo on a South African "game farm" of merely 4,000 acres. Never got to fire a shot out of my 404. They are very spooky and the terrain is formidable (thick). Also, the abundance of game was a problem. Something was always giving us away: kudu, zebra, impala, warthogs, etc). And dealing with swirling winds every day. Didn't shoot any buffalo but it was a great hunt. Hard work.