Captive Bred Lions To Put End To Debate

Discussion in 'Articles' started by NamStay, Nov 25, 2016.

  1. NamStay

    NamStay AH Senior Member

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    LionessReleasedb.jpg

    Two young lions, just over three years old, have proven that conservation by means of captive breeding is possible. Critics have been up in arms for some time now about lion farms that breed lions in captivity. According to these critics, captive-bred lions have no conservation value, as it would be impossible for them to survive out in their natural habitat.

    Self-appointed ‘predator specialists’ propagate this notion to the public as a hard fact. Their entire argument rests on their belief that captive-bred lions can't survive in the wild. Research is currently underway to test this hypothesis.

    Recently, two young captive-bred lions - one male and one female, bred and raised in captivity by Tienie Bamberger of Warthog Safaris - were released into a managed nature reserve as part of a research project undertaken on behalf of the South African Predator Association. The lions, that are not related, had never met until the start of their wild adventure.

    As with most new romances, their union was preceded by intense negotiations, arrangements, and mountains of paperwork. The owner of the property on which they have been released, first had to apply for a permit for the lions to roam freely on his property. This was preceded by habitat assessments and visits from nature conservation officials to ensure that the area provided is adequate and has sufficient prey that are available to maintain two young, hungry lions. Finally, a permit that allowed the lions to be taken from the Free State to Limpopo sealed the deal.

    On Saturday, the 15th of October, the animals were sedated, they were microchipped and DNA samples were taken to ensure that there would never be any suspicion about their origin. They were then relocated to their new home. Upon arrival, the lioness was excited to explore her new surroundings. The young male clearly enjoyed his nap, and after much encouragement, lazily made an appearance.

    Like any young couple, the two will be spending some time in a 50-hectare area for and adaption period. Once they have found their Limpopo-feet, the lions will be released into the adjacent large, pristine nature reserve - a place filled with abundant prey and beautiful habitat. There the two lions will live without any human help or interference - completely reliant on their own instincts and ability. Out in the big, wild world, they will only have each other, and hopefully then, they will start a family.

    While there is currently no plan to collar the lions, they will be carefully monitored. The aim is to support that captive-bred lions can adjust to the wild without much difficulty, and that their natural instincts will prevail. Lion breeders may not call themselves experts, but in their experience of working with the predators on a daily basis, when a lion bred in captivity is released into the wild, it does not take more than a day for instinct to kick in. Before long, the lion will stalk and catch a warthog or small antelope. Contrary to popular opinion, lions do not have to be taught to hunt, because it is in their nature; an instinct that runs in their very DNA.

    MaleLionReleasedb[1].jpg LionReleaseAreab.jpg



    Source: http://www.southafricanpredatorasso.../captive-bred-lions-to-put-end-to-debate.html
     
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  2. edward

    edward AH Elite

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    i find it hard to ok breeding plains game for hunting but not lions,whats the difference?if everything is on the up and up in each case and fair chase applys how is it different?im sure their is corruption in farm bred plains game hunting as in farm bred lions but not in every case,as their is corruption in wild hunting of plains game and lions and dangerous game as well.how is it ok for one but not the other?if fair chase is used im sure the farm bred lion can and will kill you just as fast and dead as the wild lion.the key is for the hunter to know he or she is hunting with a honest,ethical operation,is this not so?
     
  3. K-man

    K-man AH Fanatic

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    For the anti-hunters it is hard to have warm fuzzy feelings over a warthog or an impala so they start with lions. The end goal is all animals. Lions are just the beginning.
     
  4. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Enthusiast

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    I agree, lions are the goal. Once they achieve that, their next animal will be something else. Lord help us if Disney or Dreamworks ever make a film staring a Kudu or Cape Buffalo.

    All environmentalists use what we call the moving goal post system. They pick just one thing that is slightly far off and go for that to seem normal. Once that goal is established, they will find another goal because they won't disband their environmental apparatus. Greenpeace got whaling stopped pretty well, yet they are still around. There is never an end to their crusade.
     
  5. LivingTheDream

    LivingTheDream AH Elite

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    I really hope this proves to be a success! I hope they publish the results. I have a feeling these lions will be just fine and will adapt pretty quickly. You can't fight instinct.
     
  6. Hank2211

    Hank2211 GOLD SUPPORTER AH Elite

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    This seems like a great idea. One thought. I see this is sponsored by SAPA. The results would be given more credence by the 'outside world' if academics were running the experiment. People will always say that SAPA has a vested interest in the results, and therefore the results are suspect. Best to get that out of the way at the start.
     
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  7. CAustin

    CAustin BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    I hope this works out with grand results! A litter of fours cubs next year would be a big win!
     
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  8. edward

    edward AH Elite

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    have to start somewhere.
     
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  9. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Enthusiast

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    The idea that captive bred animals can't thrive in the wild should run headlong into the fish and game's idea that we should not allow exotic pets because they might escape into the wild and unbalance an ecosystem. There are plenty of pets that became local wildlife problems.
     
  10. StephenZambia

    StephenZambia New Member

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    Exactly, and that they have vested interests in the results, is also shown by the fact that the results are already presented, even before the experiment has really started.
    So far the lions have been released into a 50 hectare area. Where they are fed as there is no prey. Yet they already write "Two young lions, just over three years old, have proven that conservation by means of captive breeding is possible."
     
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  11. Royal27

    Royal27 AH Ambassador

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    I don't really have any doubt that CBLs can hunt on their own after release, or breed. Not really sure why this is even in question or needs to be proven.

    I guess my question is really this - where are the areas without lions that want to have them reintroduced for the purpose of conservation? Having the land mass is kinda important too....

    Perhaps I'm being cynical but I really don't see the point of this experiment and what they are actually trying to prove. And regardless, they certainly haven't proven anything yet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2016
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  12. edward

    edward AH Elite

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    my wife and i are in our 70s,we live on a fixed income.not starving by any means.we own our home.i bought a new pickup in 1992,im still driving it.my wife drove her bronco for 20 years and we got her her first new truck in 2009,a jeep.weve been to africa 5 times,no complaints.BUT,if i go back to africa for a male lion i will go for a farm bred male as the price is far cheaper than a WILD lion.my female was wild but that only cost 9000.00.saw one listed on this site for 19,900.00.my question is,am i not helping out wild lions by going after a farm bred lion???and if i do this i will count on this site to make sure that im hunting with a fair chase,legal,outfitter that has a lion that can kill me as well as i can kill it.cant think of a better way to die than in a fair fight.
     
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  13. Pro Hunting Safaris

    Pro Hunting Safaris SPONSOR AH Elite

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    lets hope this is a success! It will be a big step in the industry....
     
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  14. Alexandro Faria

    Alexandro Faria AH Veteran

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    Don't agree with you at all. A farm bred lion associates food with people and has no fear of man, in that sense. Their emotion complexity is much higher than that of the majority of your herbivorous species. This is evident as a result of their complex social structures and the nature of their gregariousness (Lions work together to hunt, a complex activity). And yes, I can back this up, just needs to be when I'm back on campus (need the varsity's server to get hold of the papers).

    Furthermore, such is not "fair chase", Fair chase is going after an animal in its own habitat where the animal doesn't have a positive association with people, regardless of how small that might be.

    Lastly, hunting is about earning your prize and respecting nature, what's the point of hand-picking your male and hunting him in a camp? What kind of an experience is that? All that person cares about is his trophy and that kind of man I don't wish to be associated with in any sense.

    Something I have no issue with is breeding cats in captivity to boost numbers and hunting the offspring of such creatures that have been released. That way, there is no psychological dependence on man.

    Please don't take this as a personal attack, it's the idea I don't agree with, not you as an individual. If I have misunderstood you, I do apologise.
     
  15. mrpoindexter

    mrpoindexter AH Enthusiast

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    I remember my PH telling me he would rather hunt a wild lion that a farm raised one because he felt the farm raised lions were far more dangerous to hunt. I certainly can see that the CBL are not the same as wild ones, but I am hestitent to let anti-hunters pick us apart, splitting off a fringe from the herd here and there until there are so few of us. If they eliminate CBL, then they will work towards eliminating put and take, then captive bred anything, and so on and so on until the last person to hunt will be some poor eskimo that is only allowed to hunt enough to feed his kid and nothing more.

    We need to behave more like the buffalo we love so much. An attack on one is treated as an attack on all, even if he is the old bull you butted horns with last week. Look at the NRA and the success it has. They do not back down when public opinion is against them because of some nut job making guns look like murder death machines.

    The CBL isn't the end goal for the anti's. It is just another goal on the march towards eliminating us all. We can give up here and there as long as we keep them from "winning" but that is just playing a prevent defense and prevent defenses only prevent winning.
     
  16. sheephunterab

    sheephunterab AH Enthusiast

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    Domestic cats being on of the worst!
     
  17. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    It is bs that a lion will not be able to live in the wild because it was raised first. Dogs.cats hell even pigs that have been tamed over 100's of year will turn back to the wild animal they are in short time. Now how someone could think a lion could not is beyond me. To think they would not kill a human if seen when released because humans have feed them is crazy talk.

    They are trying a project and if this was a rhino they released they would be hero's. Time people get over it is a lion so they are special and have more rights then any other animal. Don't like hunting a raised lion don't do it but give in and fight with other hunters over it will end bad for us all. It will end up with us losing more then the right to hunt a raised lion.
     
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  18. edward

    edward AH Elite

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    you did and no apology is needed.you are entitled to your beliefs as i am.
     
  19. Royal27

    Royal27 AH Ambassador

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    Why would this be a big step? What unknown fact is being proven here?

    As others have said, it's pretty well known that cats can hunt instinctively and return to the wild given the chance.

    Perhaps I'm being dense and missing something, but I just don't see what is being proven here that isn't already known.
     
  20. billc

    billc SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    You may know it and I do but some are asking for proof. If it shows that raised lion could be ever used to help bring lion numbers back if needed it shows some kind of value. If it was any other animal they would not need to do this it would just be looked at as ok.

    I think there is a lot of guys kidding themselves about what will happen once the raised lion bones stop hitting the market. Where there is a market they will find away to get what they want. So instead of just seeing pictures of rhino and ele rotting away from being poached we will get to see lions rotting or there numbers just slowly disappear.
     

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