Caliber for my Double Rifle

Kenneth McMillan

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All of them but I would personally go for the 450/400 because the recoil is more manageable
 

IvW

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The "New" 500/416 NE makes a lot of sense.....
 

Tanks

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The "New" 500/416 NE makes a lot of sense.....

Question is why?

The OP when asking about 450/400 NE, 450 NE and .470 NE back in 2011 was asking for an ELEPHANT rifle primarily.

Following is the factory round ballistic data from Hornady for these rounds.

450-400 NE 400 grain @2,50 fps for @3,232 ft/lbs
500-416 NE 400 grain @2,300 fps for @4,698 ft/lbs
.450 NE 480 grain @2,150 for 4,927 ft/lbs
.470 NE 500 grain @2,150 fps for 5,132 ft/lbs

I'd throw out the 450-400 out as a primarily elephant rifle compared to others. The 450 and .470 are have almost the same ballistics.

Comparing the .470 and .500-416, the .470 has 434 ft/lbs more energy with a 25% heavier bullet and has 24% more surface area (matters with solids) than the .500-416. Though I think the Norma .500-416 410 grain round matches the .470 in muzzle energy.

Add to that the .470 is supported by just about every factory manufacturer (Hornady, Norma, Barnes) whereas only Hornady and Norma loads for the .500-416.

.450 is close enough to .470 but only Hornady supports it.

So, do you like it just because it is new and rare? ;)

One good thing though about the .500-416 is because it is not popular it is very easy to get a deal on S2 or K gun in that caliber. It might be an issue though if one ever tries to sell the gun down the line.
 

CoElkHunter

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.465 H and H? Why? Because you’d be the first on your block (maybe the world) with one. Apparently, nobody here on AH has ever seen a single cartridge, let alone a rifle chambered in this unicorn cartridge? Be different, unique and BE SOMEBODY! I would too, but I prefer my bolt actions in WM, Lott and Taylor and besides, I could never afford a double anyways. Good luck deciding!
 

Philip Glass

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I would buy the .450/400 NE 3"....it's on the wish list!

I have nothing again any one of your picks. They are all sensible and wise...as far as I'm concerned. My choice reflected...a lesser recoil.
Probably good advice. Have a .470 and would not mind shooting the .450/400.
 

Pondoro

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I would (and did..) go for the .470 when ele is in the equation..plenty power and very common..ammo etc...but the .500´s are a better choice for elephant..

The .500/416 is no doubt good...very good penetration and power....but recoil is on par with a .470 and the chamber pressure is a bit higher than ideal on a double rifle..
 

HWL

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What I should have said is I will be hunting elephant with this double as well as other animals.

.450/400 NE 3" is good for an elephant, you probably will take one or two or so.

And it is ok for every thing else, you will take a lot of!

For the 1% elephant and 99% everything else.... I would not choose a 99% elephant rifle.

With the .450/400 you can have a lot of fun around the rest of the world.


HWL
 

thriller

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I've been doing my homework learning about Doubles for a year or two and I'm debating which caliber for mine. So I thought I would test the waters from this august group.

The rifle will be for animals other than elephant so I'm going to stay under a .50. I'm looking at the following"

.450/400 NE 3"
.450 NE 3 1/4"
.470 NE

Opinions and thoughts? Pro's and cons?

Thanks.
go big or go home
 

Major Khan

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I would personally opt for a .470 Nitro Express .

In 1964 , I had a client come to Nagpur for a gaur shikar . The gentle man was armed with a .476 Nitro Express calibre double barreled side by side drop lock rifle , built by the Westley Richards brand . It was regulated for ICI Kynoch 520 grain soft point and solid metal covered cartridges .
That is the single most powerful rifle ... Which I had ever seen in my 10 year career as a professional shikaree . A 520 grain ICI Kynoch solid metal covered bullet fired from this rifle actually broke both the shoulders of a 3000 pound bull gaur bison ... While rupturing the brute's heart . The creatures just gave out ... Then , and there .

In my entire life ... That was the ONLY time when I saw a rifle bullet break BOTH the shoulders of the gaur . It was definitely a sight worth seeing .
 

IvW

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The rifle will be for animals other than elephant so I'm going to stay under a .50. I'm looking at the following"
What I should have said is I will be hunting elephant with this double as well as other animals.

Well why not?

Definitely not looking for an ELEPHANT only rifle....back in 2011....

500/416, 450/400 and even the 375 Flanged magnum would make for a more practical all round double rifle. All three can easily be scoped which makes them very versatile as all rounders.

450/400 is great cartridge so is the 375 Flanged.

Just my opinion that the the 500/416 NE is a great idea and a superb choice for the task at hand. Yes it is new in terms of NE cartridges but so what? If he prefers old school NE then the 450/400 3" is the better choice.

A 500 NE would be ideal as an Elephant only rifle but is a piss poor choice for "as well as other animals"....

I am sure the original idea was for a more all round rifle and caliber...I would go with the 500/416 NE....anybody else can go with what they want
 

Tanks

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My view on this would be a two gun solution if one is using doubles. A .470 with a red dot for DG and game < 100 yards.

A 9.3x74R double regulated with a scope for longer ranges for PG.

I have been told by multitude of people that one must regulate a double with the scope on it if that is how it will be used as the additional weight impacts the regulation.

Alternatively, one can sight in the scope using ONE barrel effectively turning the double into a single shot with the scope on and using it like a regular double without. Cal Pappas gave examples of it in a separate post somewhere where he has taken game at 200+ yards.
 

IvW

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Or just use the 500/416 NE for both.....many double rifles made with scope mounts with no issues.......
 

Tanks

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Or just use the 500/416 NE for both.....many double rifles made with scope mounts with no issues.......

Do you have a scoped .500/416 NE that you have used?
 

IvW

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Do you have a scoped .500/416 NE that you have used?

Not yet but what is the point?

I am seriously considering one however and if I pull the trigger it will be a VC...

VC could build one which will regulate so can these fellows...or is this a bad idea?

New Westley Richards .500/.416 Droplock Double Rifle


WR-20-369-16508-Edit-Edit.jpg


An interesting rifle completed this week, is this lovely scroll back droplock double rifle in .500/.416 calibre. The round so it goes was developed to replicate the power of the legendary .416 Rigby, but in a flanged case that could be used successfully in double rifles. Developed by Kriegoff in the mid 1990’s, the round was based on the tried and tested .500 nitro express case in 3 1/4″ format. In Norma ammunition, the cartridge propels a 410 grain Woodleigh bullet at a very respectable 2325 feet per second so generating 4922 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. All round a great cartridge for general African use, from the larger plains game all the way up to the largest of the most dangerous game.

WR-.500.416_3.jpg


Only the second rifle in this calibre to be built by us, we have to say that the lines of the rifle are only enhanced by the profile of the barrels which have a very nice and gentle sweep tapering down to the muzzle. The rifle weighs in at 10lb 6ozs which makes it extremely comfortable to shoot. The rifle has been regulated at 100 yards, hence the fitting of a scope, the whole package complete in a dark green canvas and leather trimmed lightweight case.

WR-.500.416_4.jpg
Vivid case colour hardening complements the traditional house scroll engraving and gold details.

WR-.500.416_5.jpg
The rifle comes complete in a dark green canvas and dark tan leather trimmed case.

WR-.500.416_7.jpg
Quick detachable scope mounts.

WR-.500.416_1.jpg
The rifle has lovely sweeping lines!
 

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Tanks

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Beautiful. Yeah, I looked at those Wesley Richards before I got into the double rifles. Before dropping $100K plus on them (PH work must pay really well ;) ), I decided to buy a few of the less expensive ones to play around with before investing in the more expensive ones. So, I have a Heym .500 NE and a VC .450 NE now to keep me busy for a year or two and use in some hunts. I'll use the .500 this year if my hunt happens and the .450 next year.
 

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Do you reload? If not check ammunition availability and cost. Other than not an elephant what animals will you target? I’ve shot several water buffalos with 375H&H and with 470N.E. The difference in animal’s reaction is considerable and bigger works faster and better. That’s why I narrowed my choices down to 470N.E. and 500N.E. and ended up with a 470N.E.

Is the 416 Rigby no 2 pretty much a still birth? I couldn’t understand why they were releasing it when 500/416 was already a somewhat established round.
 

Gert Odendaal

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I go green when I read topics like this, because doubles are honestly for the rich hear in South Africa, I mean they very rarly go for anything under R100000 and then that's a second hand one
I agree...would have loved to shoot a double rifle and re-load for it ..would have really being nice to hunt with it too..I am not well versed on double rifles..the most information I acquired from the Kynoch ammo web page ..my favorite being the .450 No.2 Nitro Express,
Why ?? Because I will be able to build one on a Greener 16 bore action or a CZ Poldi special steel 16 ga action since it has all the safety features build into it to serve as a donor side x side double rifle ...(y)(y)(y)
 

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Gert Odendaal

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Or the .475 No.2 Jeffery will be another great caliber to build it on a side by side action..
 

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HWL

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Tanks

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...my favorite being the .450 No.2 Nitro Express,
Why ?? Because I will be able to build one on a Greener 16 bore action or a CZ Poldi special steel 16 ga action since it has all the safety features build into it to serve as a donor side x side double rifle ...(y)(y)(y)

Hmmm, is a shotgun action strong enough to handle rifle pressures?
 

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