Buffaloes are tough

[Sideshow]

I’m glad @michael458 has come to the conversation.
After talking extensively with him about first shot and 2nd shot bullets. First premium expanding bullet 2nd premium sold I chose heavy for caliber 1st 350gr north fork SS bullet. I did want to use NF across the board but there customer service left me with rather a bad taste in my mouth so I went with Michael’s recommendation of CEB 13# solid
You will be able to find these for your 375 Ruger thus avoiding the 400gr train smash.
You want that straight line penetration for your second shot! First shot is where you are in control so you want max wound channel.

.375 300gr Safari Solid - 50ct

This bullet is designed for .375 rifles, especially the 375 H&H. It is a solid brass, non expanding hunting bullets designed for deep, straight line penetration.

cuttingedgebullets.com

 

[Fordy]

Gday @michael458 hmmm your @ it again I see yes the old smoke screen on the 375 again
Yes we get your true love is shining through lol

Moving on to a more serious note @blackpowder12bore
I really enjoy my 375’s as we have a lot of very big wharf rats down here lol
Anyway
On a 400 gr bullet it will need to be in a 7twist most likely to be terminally stable ( I’ve run 380& 390 gr which I learned from a lot & wouldn’t touch with a barge pole today ) but that is only if one covers what Micheal is talking on plus in a ruger your not going to get a lot of velocity anyway & if one thinks that isn’t important especially in a smaller 375 caliber one better start looking @ wounds with the 375 in buff @ low impacts & these need to be straight line wounds not tumbling wounds as a tumbling wound is a true bingo raffle

Reconsider I would personally & your tests won’t come close to telling you what’s going to occur or needed in a buff if your after good results but if your ( with respect ) one who is happy with the ph backing you up or just a dead critter it will work but one that unless you cover a lot of bases your chances of getting a good outcome are considerably less

Sorry to be bearer of bad news & I’d look @ a angle grinder & drill to cut your bullets down as done plenty of that over the years to tune a bullet but if it’s makeup is no good ( construction & material) you will not tune them & need to start all over again or go the route of @Sideshow aboves post or something similar

Cheers

 

[steve white]

As per my other post about the new 500 Jeffrey acquisition a few of you asked, why the step up? It surprised me a little too, having always been a proponent of the 'enough gun, but not too much' tenet, but after our last hunt I just couldn't ignore the facts any longer.
I am only referring to our close group with buffalo results that I have personal experience upon, and here are the statistics:
1. Bull. 375 H&H. Soft. Gut shot possibly clipping a lung. 24 hr successful followup.
2. Bull. 375 H&H. Hornady DGX. Side two lung shot and plumbing. Dropped immediately and expired.
3. Cow. 375 H&H. Side chest, heart and lungs. Ran 10m, dropped and expired.
4. Cow. 375 H&H. Swift A frame. Frontal, possibly one lung? Set up ambush but bayed by dogs. 3 hrs.
5. Bull. 375 H&H. Hornady DGX. Centre chest frontal. Ran 10m, dropped and expired.
6. Cow. 375 H&H. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Ran 20m. Collapsed and expired.
7. Cow. 375 H&H. Swift A frame. Frontal. Ran, not recovered after 1 day.
8. Bull. 450/400. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Turned and staggered 10m. Dropped to second side shot to heart and lungs.
9. Bull. 375H&H. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Dropped, but got up again. Second shot heart and lungs. 375 H&H. DGS. Dropped again, but got up. Third shot. 450/400. DGX. Chest. Dropped, tried to get up. 5th shot 450/400. DGS. Chest. Tried to get up. Sixth shot. 450/400. DGS. Frontal brain shot, finally finished it.
10. Cow. 375 H&H. DGX. Frontal, possibly a bit high. Took off and ran, but rested at least four times in dense bush, no second shot possible. Copious blood, including a little pink blood initially so possibly a nicked a lung. Followed up the next day. Another three resting places observed with blood. Then blood dried up. Not recovered despite thorough search. No vultures.
11. Bull. 375 H&H. DGX. Frontal. Ran, no blood for 200 metres or so. Then minor spots of non-lung blood. Too dark to follow. Followup the following day. Blood dried up, but dragging the right hind leg. Set up ambush and charged from 12 metres. Initial heart lung side shot as it got up from a 500 Jeffrey solid. Then a 375 H&H DGX to the neck. Then another 500 Jeffrey solid quartering as it came around. Then a 450/400 DGX frontal. Then it dropped at 4 metres. Then a 500 Jeffrey and a 450/400 into the neck from above at 4m ended it.
The initial 375 H&H damaged the front leg and broke the back one, maybe ran down the side?

So in summary;
Three of the 375 side chest shots were one shot quick kills.
The 450/400 side chest shot was a 'one shot' quick kill.
One of the 375 frontal shots was a one shot kill.
Four of the 375 frontal shots were not killed outright, two were recovered on followup, two lost.
One of the 375 gut shots resulted in a 24 hr followup
One 375 side chest shot dropped, but took a lot of finishing off.

Conclusion:
375 H&H worked well for pefrect side chest heart and lung shots, but not well on frontal shots.
450/400 worked well on perfect side chest shot.

The sample is small I know, but for me it is enough. Not all shots will be perfect side heart lung and the problem stems as much from a poor first shot as from ineffective bullet performance. My kids will be hunting buff more and more with my equipment so I am opting for something to absolutely monimise risk. To me that is a lot of gun topped with a good DG scope and equipment wise that is as much as I can do. The rest is down to training and practice.

Are you having a crisis of confidence with your 450/400? I know you were proud of that gun.

 

[steve white]

Jim Carmicheal once wrote that whenever someone pawed breathlessly at his lapels telling him of a hair raising buffalo charge, they were always found to be shooting a 375. He stated that he had never been charged due to one factor: he was using a 458. For frontal shots, angled shots, adrenaline charged buff and the like, a 500 grain, 458 frontal sized bullet is a real comfort.
I am sure that a classy rifle in 450 would be a treasured possession.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Jim Carmicheal once wrote that whenever someone pawed breathlessly at his lapels telling him of a hair raising buffalo charge, they were always found to be shooting a 375. He stated that he had never been charged due to one factor: he was using a 458. For frontal shots, angled shots, adrenaline charged buff and the like, a 500 grain, 458 frontal sized bullet is a real comfort.
I am sure that a classy rifle in 450 would be a treasured possession.

Yes I loved that gun Steve, but I will love it's 470 replacement as much. If it was just me using it thare would have been no question of the upgrade, or the 500J addition, but with the family using my battery and even having an inkling that they were under gunned, there was no question. I think the majority of the feedback on this thread has reinforced that choice.

 

[Sideshow]

Yes I loved that gun Steve, but I will love it's 470 replacement as much. If it was just me using it thare would have been no question of the upgrade, or the 500J addition, but with the family using my battery and even having an inkling that they were under gunned, there was no question. I think the majority of the feedback on this thread has reinforced that choice.

How much of a step up in recoil have you noticed?

 

[Bejane]

It's been spoken about so many times that it doesn't really need to be repeated but a 375 is proven and will get the job done. As you have detailed on page 1 its all comes down to shot placement.

If you were to upgrade, you could look into a 416 to replace your 375. Ive seen many Buffalo succumb to a 416. A little step up in recoil but manageable.

Over time what I have been really impressed with on Buffalo is a .375 going 2600fps and above (Saeed's rilfe in 375/404). Any .400 bullet going 2400-2500 fps and .458 going 2350-2400fps

 

[steve white]

Your shot placement would be oh so much better if you used a 22--through 6.5 Creedmore, as I have read around here recently....

 

[SStomcat]

Having read thru this thread there are several variable that come into consideration and make this choice interesting. 1. Calibre, there is a reason why there are legal limits in some countries. 2. Shot placement . 3. The distance to which you are shooting a buffalo using a double w/o a scope. 4. Type of bullets, terrain and so on …with so many variables you also have multiple choices. Ultimately you get to decide with your PH and trust them to the full

 

[Brian]

Having read thru this thread there are several variable that come into consideration and make this choice interesting. 1. Calibre, there is a reason why there are legal limits in some countries. 2. Shot placement . 3. The distance to which you are shooting a buffalo using a double w/o a scope. 4. Type of bullets, terrain and so on …with so many variables you also have multiple choices. Ultimately you get to decide with your PH and trust them to the full

Good summary, For me it goes like this on hunting cape buffalo. Your milage may vary.

1. Calibre. Life begins at .458. You don't notice the recoil in the field.

2. Shot placement, This is not a variable or consideration for me. The bullet goes in the "boiler room", heart/lungs. That's it. You want to hit a grape fruit, off the sticks, at 50 yds. If one can't do that then best go hunt non-dangerous game. After a few buffalo hunts you might get fancy and break the scapula. I seldom have the nerve to try that.

3. Distance. Just get close or don't shoot. Your PH will respect you for that, much more than if you wound a buffalo trying to make a 100 yard shot. I like the traditional 50 yards for the first shot. That's cape buffalo hunting. Closer is even better.

4. Bullet type. This is number one. There are actually only a few good ones to chose from.
I just use the best available. The bullet is the only thing you have that touches that touches the
buffalo. To begin with maybe just use expanding bullets. I love solids but they should be viewed
as a specialty bullet. There is no up-side to using mediocre bullets like Hornady.

5. Your PH. He is a savvy bushmen that can read cape buffalo like a book. He is a steady level headed guide and mentor. But he is still a mere human. I don't expect him to be a learned bullet aficionados and if he is a good shot that is a real bonus, but I don't count on it. And I do not trust him or anyone else for back up in a fight with a buffalo. PH's are so busy they just don't shoot much in my opinion. Some of them just use whatever ammo is left over from past clients. They can't be all things to all people.

Happy hunting.

 

[IvW]

As per my other post about the new 500 Jeffrey acquisition a few of you asked, why the step up? It surprised me a little too, having always been a proponent of the 'enough gun, but not too much' tenet, but after our last hunt I just couldn't ignore the facts any longer.
I am only referring to our close group with buffalo results that I have personal experience upon, and here are the statistics:
1. Bull. 375 H&H. Soft. Gut shot possibly clipping a lung. 24 hr successful followup.
2. Bull. 375 H&H. Hornady DGX. Side two lung shot and plumbing. Dropped immediately and expired.
3. Cow. 375 H&H. Side chest, heart and lungs. Ran 10m, dropped and expired.
4. Cow. 375 H&H. Swift A frame. Frontal, possibly one lung? Set up ambush but bayed by dogs. 3 hrs.
5. Bull. 375 H&H. Hornady DGX. Centre chest frontal. Ran 10m, dropped and expired.
6. Cow. 375 H&H. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Ran 20m. Collapsed and expired.
7. Cow. 375 H&H. Swift A frame. Frontal. Ran, not recovered after 1 day.
8. Bull. 450/400. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Turned and staggered 10m. Dropped to second side shot to heart and lungs.
9. Bull. 375H&H. DGX. Side heart and lungs. Dropped, but got up again. Second shot heart and lungs. 375 H&H. DGS. Dropped again, but got up. Third shot. 450/400. DGX. Chest. Dropped, tried to get up. 5th shot 450/400. DGS. Chest. Tried to get up. Sixth shot. 450/400. DGS. Frontal brain shot, finally finished it.
10. Cow. 375 H&H. DGX. Frontal, possibly a bit high. Took off and ran, but rested at least four times in dense bush, no second shot possible. Copious blood, including a little pink blood initially so possibly a nicked a lung. Followed up the next day. Another three resting places observed with blood. Then blood dried up. Not recovered despite thorough search. No vultures.
11. Bull. 375 H&H. DGX. Frontal. Ran, no blood for 200 metres or so. Then minor spots of non-lung blood. Too dark to follow. Followup the following day. Blood dried up, but dragging the right hind leg. Set up ambush and charged from 12 metres. Initial heart lung side shot as it got up from a 500 Jeffrey solid. Then a 375 H&H DGX to the neck. Then another 500 Jeffrey solid quartering as it came around. Then a 450/400 DGX frontal. Then it dropped at 4 metres. Then a 500 Jeffrey and a 450/400 into the neck from above at 4m ended it.
The initial 375 H&H damaged the front leg and broke the back one, maybe ran down the side?

So in summary;
Three of the 375 side chest shots were one shot quick kills.
The 450/400 side chest shot was a 'one shot' quick kill.
One of the 375 frontal shots was a one shot kill.
Four of the 375 frontal shots were not killed outright, two were recovered on followup, two lost.
One of the 375 gut shots resulted in a 24 hr followup
One 375 side chest shot dropped, but took a lot of finishing off.

Conclusion:
375 H&H worked well for pefrect side chest heart and lung shots, but not well on frontal shots.
450/400 worked well on perfect side chest shot.

The sample is small I know, but for me it is enough. Not all shots will be perfect side heart lung and the problem stems as much from a poor first shot as from ineffective bullet performance. My kids will be hunting buff more and more with my equipment so I am opting for something to absolutely monimise risk. To me that is a lot of gun topped with a good DG scope and equipment wise that is as much as I can do. The rest is down to training and practice.

373 H&H should not be used on frontal shots on buffalo......
Do not use solids on buffalo even in 500 Jeff use premium grade expanding bullets......

 

[Fordy]

Gday ivw

373 H&H should not be used on frontal shots on buffalo......

So why would that be ?
Also please clarify the difference of a mushroom pill vrs a shedding & various designs within these if you have enough data on them

If you have & definitely most welcome to include the actual shot placement being more specific than just a broad frontal shot

Do not use solids on buffalo even in 500 Jeff use premium grade expanding bullets......

So once you explain the 1st part above , now let’s get to the 2nd part & compare the diameter of the Jeffery to the 375 pill & those shot placements above on the ones that now include the 500 Jeffery on the same frontal shots & see how this compares in the results & what that combo will do in a buff

Oh the Jeffery with a solid of course ( but welcome other variants also as a added bonus to the mix )
BUT MUST BE A GOOD SOLID ( what solids have you used on frontal shots on buff & impact velocities of these ? Extremely important so please answer this )

I look forward too your response as then we can start to educate a bit more on why solids are often misunderstood & are a choice that will cover more bases than a expanding


Cheers

 

[grand veneur]

I also don't understand why one should not use the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum for frontal shots on buffalo. Sure, a frontal shot is not the best one to take, but that applies when using any cartridge or bullet. It is also certain that, by same shot placement, larger calibers and expanding bullets offer an advantage because the wound channels are larger, provided the expanding bullets penetrate deeply enough and expand perfectly. With a FMJ bullet or Solid, you have certain advantages regarding penetration, and above a certain caliber class, starting in my opinion around 50, it is increasingly possible to give up the use of SP bullets. A FMJ bullet or Solid certainly offers greater reliability regarding the depth of penetration of such bullets with large frontal area and which have not in all cases a sufficient impact velocity for an optimal working of a SP bullet.

 

[Brian]

You know that I am not a fan of the 375. for cape buffalo. ( there are lots of hunters with much more experience than I who do very well with the .375 especially if the muzzle velocity is up around 3000fps and the bullet is a first class mono-mental.)

IvW, I am genuinely interested in the specifics of your statement that a ,375 should not be used for frontal shots on cape buffalo and that solids should not be used at all on cape buffalo.
(Solids are not all the same, ie. Hornady round nosed solids vs. CEB #13 Safari Solid.)

I remember two frontal shots I took with a .375 HH on two cape buffalo bulls. One in 2017 and one in 2018. Both were with 300 grain, North Fork Cup Point Solids at 2,500 fps. One was an old, very big bodied bull at 22 paces ( This was my first buffalo, man was it exciting! ) and one was a younger bull at 45 paces. Both times the shot was close enough that I was able to place it exactly in the perfect centre of the chest with the bull facing my squarely and both times the bull turned and ran and bucked for 25 paces and went down, dead. The penetration of the bullet was straight and deep, over the top of the heart.

Also, I have found the .500 cal. CEB #13 Safari Solid, flat meplat that is 67% of the bullet diameter, to be a real quick killer when it is placed in the shoulder of a cape buffalo, from any angle. Deep straight penetration, big wound channel.

I know that there are lots of buffalo hunters who don't like solids at all, but they often don't mention what the make or configuration is of solid the have used. There are significant differences, I'm told in the terminal performance of the varying design and construction of the solids on the market.

Specifics are so important with this subject.
I look forward to your post. Please be as specific as possible for an old nerd like myself. Thanks, brian

 

[MLindsay]

Was reading on another post about choosing between a 270 or 300 grn X bullet in a 375.
I for sure have shot over 100 animals with a 270 grn X in my 375, everything from a red flanked duiker in Cameroon, 5 eland and numerous white tails and pigs.
I love that bullet, I am sure I could kill a cape buffalo with it but I would not use it or the 300 grn X. I have 3 other options for buff, 450 Ackley, 416 Taylor and 500 A2.
Just the reaction of all the animals I have taken with the 270/375 tells me the answer. A shoulder shot with my 570 grn X in the 500 is devastating!

 

[Foxi]

Good summary, For me it goes like this on hunting cape buffalo. Your milage may vary.

1. Calibre. Life begins at .458. You don't notice the recoil in the field.

2. Shot placement, This is not a variable or consideration for me. The bullet goes in the "boiler room", heart/lungs. That's it. You want to hit a grape fruit, off the sticks, at 50 yds. If one can't do that then best go hunt non-dangerous game. After a few buffalo hunts you might get fancy and break the scapula. I seldom have the nerve to try that.

3. Distance. Just get close or don't shoot. Your PH will respect you for that, much more than if you wound a buffalo trying to make a 100 yard shot. I like the traditional 50 yards for the first shot. That's cape buffalo hunting. Closer is even better.

4. Bullet type. This is number one. There are actually only a few good ones to chose from.
I just use the best available. The bullet is the only thing you have that touches that touches the
buffalo. To begin with maybe just use expanding bullets. I love solids but they should be viewed
as a specialty bullet. There is no up-side to using mediocre bullets like Hornady.

5. Your PH. He is a savvy bushmen that can read cape buffalo like a book. He is a steady level headed guide and mentor. But he is still a mere human. I don't expect him to be a learned bullet aficionados and if he is a good shot that is a real bonus, but I don't count on it. And I do not trust him or anyone else for back up in a fight with a buffalo. PH's are so busy they just don't shoot much in my opinion. Some of them just use whatever ammo is left over from past clients. They can't be all things to all people.

Happy hunting.

You bring up some excellent points here.

I, too, have met PH s who used up their clients’ ammunition.
This is especially common among black PHs; they’re simply less well-off.
But anyone who thinks they’d do better in a confrontation with a buff or others of the Big 5 than a seasoned PH is a dreamer.

 

[Brian]

Was reading on another post about choosing between a 270 or 300 grn X bullet in a 375.
I for sure have shot over 100 animals with a 270 grn X in my 375, everything from a red flanked duiker in Cameroon, 5 eland and numerous white tails and pigs.
I love that bullet, I am sure I could kill a cape buffalo with it but I would not use it or the 300 grn X. I have 3 other options for buff, 450 Ackley, 416 Taylor and 500 A2.
Just the reaction of all the animals I have taken with the 270/375 tells me the answer. A shoulder shot with my 570 grn X in the 500 is devastating!

Yes! A .375 on all kinds plans game. What an awesome cartridge for PG, and the wide variety of bullets available! Decisive clean kills, trajectory of a 30-06, the cartridge cycles through a Mauser bolt action like butter.

However, like you point out, a good bullet in a .500 on a cape buffalo is a different world all together. In fact it is so different, it's no wonder that those who haven't see how it kills are in disbelief and often post things like, "it's too much ... it's not necessary".
And have you ever been bothered by the recoil on a buffalo shot ? I didn't think so, neither have I.

 

[MLindsay]

Yes! A .375 on all kinds plans game. What an awesome cartridge for PG, and the wide variety of bullets available! Decisive clean kills, trajectory of a 30-06, the cartridge cycles through a Mauser bolt action like butter.

However, like you point out, a good bullet in a .500 on a cape buffalo is a different world all together. In fact it is so different, it's no wonder that those who haven't see how it kills are in disbelief and often post things like, "it's too much ... it's not necessary".
And have you ever been bothered by the recoil on a buffalo shot ? I didn't think so, neither have i

I am concentrating on the buff and never feel the recoil

 

[Foxi]

I worked for the nations largest gun and ammo distributor for a time and the amount of Hornady ammo inclusive of the DG series we shipped was astronomical let alone components.

Exithole through a fresh, wet beech of 60 cm/24 "
with the simple 300 gn Hornady FMJ in .375 H+H in my forest.

Europe's largest car insurer noted in its claims statistics that the Volkswagen Golf, was the car with the most claims and accidents (before the rise of electric vehicles).
Reason:
No other manufacturer has sales figures comparable to VW's (good old times).

The discussions here—especially when it comes to calibers and (Hornady-) bullets—are always enjoyable and relaxing, particularly in the evening over a glass of wine

 

[SStomcat]

A FMJ bullet or Solid certainly offers greater reliability regarding the depth of penetration of such bullets with large frontal area and which have not in all cases a sufficient impact velocity for an optimal working of a SP bullet.

Would you therefore approve or recommend the use of a FMJ on buffalo as the first or 2nd shot? I would like to hear from you on this...