Brass solid or copper Cup Point Solid

[Pheroze]

Colleagues! I am hunting a buffalo next year and I have almost completed load development for the softs. It was recommended to have a few solids available. Which would be your first choice, the Cutting Edge brass solid or the North Fork Cup Point Solid? Please assume that they will shoot to a similar point of aim.

 

[375Fox]

I don’t think it’s going to matter. Do they both feed well in your rifle?

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Cutting Edge FTS for the win!

HH

 

[Pheroze]

I have not started development yet, as I am still dialing in the softs. I started the poll to have a bit of fun and decide which to work up a load for first. Kevin Robertson likes the CPS. But I was thinking the brass solid would be better insurance if hitting a large bone. Just having a bit of a discussion that doesn’t involve politics tbh

 

[Green Chile]

The old model of softs and solids for buff are somewhat dated. Many PHs have gone to recommending TSX or something like that to cover all bases. I have some experience with the CPS in 416 Rigby on ele, eland, zebra, etc. That bullet has a noticeable loud impact sound and seems to send a good bit of shock into the animal. The ele fell within 40 yards on a heart shot...the eland was shot in the root of the tail and immediately fell at a dead run after 6' of penetration from back to front...zebra had both shoulders broken and a visible wall of dust lifted all the way down the spine upon impact. PHs talked about the hits of the CPS for days afterwards. I wouldn't hesitate to use the CPS on any buff on the planet for my first and following shots.

 

[CZDiesel]

For Buff the cup point, for Ele the CEB solid…

 

[Andrew62]

From what I have read previously, plus what @Green Chile has mentioned, if I were to use a solids on buffalo, I would opt for the cupped point Northforks. Of the many buffalo I have taken, the only one that caused issues was the one I shot in 1988 with solids.

 

[375Fox]

The old model of softs and solids for buff are somewhat dated. Many PHs have gone to recommending TSX or something like that to cover all bases. I have some experience with the CPS in 416 Rigby on ele, eland, zebra, etc. That bullet has a noticeable loud impact sound and seems to send a good bit of shock into the animal. The ele fell within 40 yards on a heart shot...the eland was shot in the root of the tail and immediately fell at a dead run after 6' of penetration from back to front...zebra had both shoulders broken and a visible wall of dust lifted all the way down the spine upon impact. PHs talked about the hits of the CPS for days afterwards. I wouldn't hesitate to use the CPS on any buff on the planet for my first and following shots.

I’d think the Cup point solid would be a good combination of the properties of both soft and solid since they flatten and expand a little. My question would be if the cutting edge solid would do better in thick brush since it isn’t designed to deform at all? I voted for the cutting edge because of that. I haven’t used either solid, but woodleigh hydros, woodleigh FMJ, hornady DGS all did what they were supposed to for me. I think most modern solids are high quality.

 

[wildwilderness]

What cartridge will it be for?

I can see if using a marginal chambering for buffalo like say a 9,3x62 or a 45/70 that a solid may help penetration. In those cases I would definitely consider the Cup Point solid since you are basically substituting it for a soft and want more trauma.

From my understanding anything 375 and larger is to use a “soft” as in expanding bullet. With better bullets like Monos (Barnes, CEB etc) and bonded (TBBC, A frames etc) available the need for a follow up solid up the rear of a wounded buff seems diminished. As these premium bullets will still accomplish all that’s needed and reduce the risk of pass throughs and wounding a second buff.

 

[Green Chile]

It’s a good question Zach but I would suggest that CPS expansion would require some form of hydraulic medium or something more substantial than a bush. I’ve had enough interesting results (with no negativity) to want to continue working with the CPS.

 

[Pheroze]

What cartridge will it be for?

400 H&H.

I had planned to only used softs. But my PH said he always carries a few solids. I figured I would put one at the bottom of the magazine depending on how I was instructed on the day. Anyways, building load is a great way to get to know the rifle!

 

[DLSJR]

Either bullet will be great for buffalo, but neither is really needed these days. If you take TSX’s plus just a few softs like a Bearclaw, A Frame or Northfork semi-spitzer for your first shot, followed by TSX’s the rest of the way, you’ll be fine for any buffalo that walks the earth. That said, I think a Northfork cup point solid would be very interesting for a buffalo on a lengthwise shot.

 

[Bejane]

I agree with DLSJR, just take premium softs. If you really want to take a solid then try a Woodleigh hydro, you will get solid performance with better wound cavity than with a either the cps or solid brass

 

[Nhoro]

I went with brass solid on the theory that if I need a solid then I really need penetration. I guess there are a few cases where they might be needed. If you follow up a wounded buff and he is standing facing away?

All of that aside, I was filming a buffalo hunt at Nuanetsi and they had an elephant that was destroying fences etc. They offered it to the client at a much reduced fee - pretty much buffalo money. Suddenly a bunch of solids in your pocket start to look like an excellent idea. And I would be wanting true solids at that point.

 

[Luvthunt]

For Buff the cup point, for Ele the CEB solid…

+1

 

[Green Chile]

I think a Northfork cup point solid would be very interesting for a buffalo on a lengthwise shot.

I would like to do that myself and film it. I know the results on multiple buffs with TSX but would like more experience with the CPS.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I haven't used nor tried either of your choices.

I used 500gr Hornady DGX out of a 458WM to kill my second buff and a Hornady DGS for the unneeded insurance shot.

I used 300gr Hornady DGX out of a 375H&H on my first buff.

I tested the 300gr Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrators out of my 44 mag BFR revolver on buff and eland and found they worked well. However, I don't know if Lehigh makes the Extreme Penetrator in your choice of caliber rifle.