Best RL powder for 470 NE

[Ed Lally]

Lots of unspecific info in various threads but "What is the best RL powder for reloading 500 gr A-frame in .470 BE?

 

[Ed Lally]

Typo. 470 NE

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The Swift Reloading Manual #2 list RL-22 as having the lowest SD on velocity and they also list RL-25.

 

[Ray B]

The Woodleigh manual lists several Rl powders but doesn't give a good-better-best on any of them; but the loads are: Rl15 87gr 2040fps; Rl17 95gr 1970fps; Rl19 107 gr 2060fps; Rl22 110gr 1990-2060fps; Rl25 120gr 2005-2085fps. Appears there isn't a great deal of difference in the velocity so which one is better is probably a matter of which performs best in your rifle.

 

[Ray B]

Using _Max estimate of usable case capacity of 125.3 grs water then running the calculation with a Powley sliderule I get a charge of 108 gr IMR4831 with the index to the 4350 side of the 4831 scale. the woodleigh chart shows 4831 is nearest to Rl19; so they agree on a charge of 107-108 gr with powder similar to Rl19 & 4831.

 

[Spooksar]

I use 87 gr of RL 15 behind a 500 gr Woodliegh bullet in my Merkel, regulation is 1 inch apart at 100 yards. I’ve shot Buffalo and Elephant with this load.

 

[deewayne2003]

My rifle loves 78grn of IMR3031, 2grn Dacron, Winchester Mag Primer and 500gr Hornady or Woodleigh.

Ken Owen swears by IMR3031 for .470NE and from what I hear JJ @ Champlin does also.

 

[Ray B]

78grn of IMR3031, 2grn Dacron, Winchester Mag Primer and 500gr Hornady or Woodleigh.


Is the 2 gm of Dacron used to keep the powder tight against the primer with space between the filler and bullet base or more as Graeme Wright notes that the filler should be solid from the powder to the bullet base?

 

[flatwater bill]

In an old cartridge like the 470, reloading manuals and their writers keep things very safe by using slow burning powders....like Rl 25......but bore cross sectional area/case capacity ratio would say powders between 3031 and 4350 would be good choices......and it came from the factory, often, in olden days with 75 grains of cordite (about like 89 grains of 3031). There are many better choices nowadays than cordite, but I always look at the old load for some reference point........if I were to load this cartridge again with a RL powder, I would consider Re-15 first.........best of luck...FWB

 

[deewayne2003]

Ray B..... The answer to this question = Both

The Dacron is meant to make up the space inside the casing and keep the powder charge against the primer; and in this case it does as Wright describes, the 2.0 grains of Dacron sits on top of the powder charge and seems to be slightly compressed when the bullet is seated. - i.e. you can't hear the powder shake inside the casing after the bullet is seated.

As flatwater bill states about cordite and better options, that came up in a discussion I had with Ken Owen when I asked him ...."Ken what about IMR3031 being temperature sensitive?"

Ken's replied.........
"It's a hell of a lot less temperature sensitive than CORDITE that the .470N.E. was developed with, and personally I think the whole temperature sensitive issue has been way overblown!"

Which made perfect since to me, since I load my .270Win, .300Win, .257Wby & .416 Rigby all with RL22 powder and its "temperature sensitive"...... and I've NEVER had an issue with it and continue to use it to this day.

 

[Ray B]

Thanks for the response. I've loaded quite a few cartridges where the powder filled well less than 1/2 the case. To keep the powder against the primer I generally used a piece of toilet paper. This left a great deal of space behind the bullet. I had no problems due to the space but I can see why: the loads were with cast bullets that had minimal resistance (compared to jacketed bullets) and the loads were 1/4 - 1/2 full ballistic capability. so even if the bullet would have acted like an obstruction the spike in pressure would have been well short of safe limit. With the 470 I'll be taking great care to minimize the airspace because even with faster powders such as 3031 and 4064 the operating pressure would be approaching the safe limit.

 

[flatwater bill]

I use a punch, cut filler wads out of shotgun wads (fiber wads). Density more closely matched to the Jute wads used in 1910 between the cordite and the bullet. Fairly tough......push the bullet out before the pressure wave hits....the idea, anyway. Old timers knew what they were doing...............FWB

 

[deewayne2003]

@ Ray B

I fully understand, and FYI the IMR3031 load that I use is supposed to duplicate the Hornady factory load for .470NE; and while both my hand loads and Hornady factory bonded DGX will regulate just fine; I do notice that the factory Hornady rounds seem to have more recoil.

 

[rookhawk]

Using _Max estimate of usable case capacity of 125.3 grs water then running the calculation with a Powley sliderule I get a charge of 108 gr IMR4831 with the index to the 4350 side of the 4831 scale. the woodleigh chart shows 4831 is nearest to Rl19; so they agree on a charge of 107-108 gr with powder similar to Rl19 & 4831.

@Ray B has it on the head. Of all the credible reloading options for the 470NE (and I'm assuming double rifles here where regulation matters), the standard is IMR4350. With this charge, I believe you have to use either foam kynoch wads or some amount of dacron stuffing to keep the powder pressed against the primer for consistent ignition. (a problem the OEM manufacturers avoid by used a Federal 216m primer that does not exist to civilians)

IF your gun will regulate with RL-19 it has less recoil than IMR4350 at similar velocities. (less powder to achieve equal velocity, all other things being equal, will have less recoil). So if your gun will regulate with RL19 by all means use it in lieu of 4350.

 

[SStomcat]

The Woodleigh manual lists several Rl powders but doesn't give a good-better-best on any of them; but the loads are: Rl15 87gr 2040fps; Rl17 95gr 1970fps; Rl19 107 gr 2060fps; Rl22 110gr 1990-2060fps; Rl25 120gr 2005-2085fps. Appears there isn't a great deal of difference in the velocity so which one is better is probably a matter of which performs best in your rifle.

I dont have the manual, but this is what Woodleigh wrote back -

Hi Soumya,

We have some data for Reloder 15 and VihtuavoriN160;

470 Nitro 500 gr SN or FMJ, Federal 215 primer;



Reloder 15 87 gr 2040 with foam rubber wad

N160 103 gr 2020 fps

Hope this helps.



Regards,
Geoff McDonald
Zedfield Pty Ltd t/a Woodleigh Bullets
NSW DL 406494768
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC 3579
PH 03 5457 2226

When I asked them if they have any other loads this was their response -

Yes one load, but you may have to go up or down a grain or two to get expected velocity and regulation.

Regards,
Geoff McDonald
Zedfield Pty Ltd t/a Woodleigh Bullets
NSW DL 406494768
PO Box 15, Murrabit, VIC 3579
PH 03 5457 2226

 

[Tanks]

RL 15 works real well for the .500 NE and I'd assume it would work just as well for the .470.

 

[SStomcat]

RL 15 works real well for the .500 NE and I'd assume it would work just as well for the .470.

Have heard so, though you need to play around to get the exact loads depending on your rifle and bullets used and probably wad types.

 

[mitch4570]

Who publishes data for Imr 3031 for 470 ne? I can't find it anywhere

 

[deewayne2003]

Who publishes data for Imr 3031 for 470 ne? I can't find it anywhere

I haven’t seen it in print, my 3031 load came from Ken Owen when he regulated it.

 

[Rare Breed]

RL 15 works real well for the .500 NE and I'd assume it would work just as well for the .470.

15.5 at 84 grains is my preference