Ban on Leopard and Lion hunting lifted - Zambia

good for andrew.....but trying to educate/get through to these people on the reality of how it works in a community in the bush, with people who live with DG animals and with their actions against them, their livestock and their crops seems like :A Bang Head:.....an impossibility

It is an impossibility!
Do yourself a favour and get a bookface profile just to see what dribble they spew out!! something i have read now in more than 1 place is that there have been 46 lion hunted from within the South Luangwa National Park between 2008-2012, according to a scientific report (2014)...
(last time i checked, that was called poaching...)

I wonder what SLCS has to say about that?
 
I saw that letter to him on facebook this morning.The one they're demanding he replies to.
Yep, did you read the replies?
 
It is an impossibility!
Do yourself a favour and get a bookface profile just to see what dribble they spew out!! something i have read now in more than 1 place is that there have been 46 lion hunted from within the South Luangwa National Park between 2008-2012, according to a scientific report (2014)...
(last time i checked, that was called poaching...)

I wonder what SLCS has to say about that?

why dont you copy it and send it to rachel there?
 
No. The same guy whose timeline I saw that first pic on is the one who shared it.I'll have a look at the Lion Aid page in a minute.
 
why dont you copy it and send it to rachel there?
dont have rachel's email. maybe pats can forward it on.
i will send it to you on email.
 
People (mainly in the "western world") can not grasp the concept that big cats are considered vermin to rural communities in Africa. Their scrawny cattle hold more value than that of a pride of lions.

Hopefully Zambia will emerge as a leader in Africa and stand steadfast under the pressure. With other countries to follow (looking at you Botswana)
I'll keep my comments to myself regarding the farce organization that is "lionaid"
 
Biddleman i got the facebook thing emailed to me and those people arent going to give up. some of the things they quote about photo safaris is total rubbish as most hunting areas arent any good for photographic safaris, and as the people in the bush in the old hunting areas in botswana have found out, the photo people dont seem to have wanted to put their money where their mouths, are and move into those areas to set up photo lodges and employ the people. why??? because they would lose money hand over fist as they arent suitable. there are plenty of nat parks for photo tourism in zambia that are under developed. if they werent so obssesed with their way , which is "the only correct way" you would think them naive , but they arent they are very dangerous in what they are trying to achieve.
 
...........something i have read now in more than 1 place is that there have been 46 lion hunted from within the South Luangwa National Park between 2008-2012, according to a scientific report (2014)...
(last time i checked, that was called poaching...)

I wonder what SLCS has to say about that?

Not aimed at you Pete.

You can read rehashed crap on the internet. retweeting etc can cover the internet in a few hours and days.

"Scientific report" show me the author and the scholarly review that was undertaken before it was published in an accredited journal.
Not some assertions by a bunch of keyboard jockey's!
 
Biddleman i got the facebook thing emailed to me and those people arent going to give up. some of the things they quote about photo safaris is total rubbish as most hunting areas arent any good for photographic safaris, and as the people in the bush in the old hunting areas in botswana have found out, the photo people dont seem to have wanted to put their money where their mouths, are and move into those areas to set up photo lodges and employ the people. why??? because they would lose money hand over fist as they arent suitable. there are plenty of nat parks for photo tourism in zambia that are under developed. if they werent so obssesed with their way , which is "the only correct way" you would think them naive , but they arent they are very dangerous in what they are trying to achieve.

Totally agree with you. So many Monday morning quarterbacks who haven't a clue what's going on, and are just blinded by their own agenda. So much talk and they don't put the money in their mouths. Take the ahole Clinton clan for an example and their elephant agenda. How much does that foundation have? To my knowledge they have never outfitted an anti poaching team. Hell, they could lease thousands of acres in different countries and protect it, but they don't. Too busy spending the cash on Hillary's cancle reduction, Bill's whores and Chelsea's feed bags to put over her face. But they stand there and pound their chests, "look what we are doing, give more." And the sheep do what they're told and follow along, because they got all the info. they need from a facebook post. Makes me want to :Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit::Vomit:.

As hunters more of us (including myself) need to put more money where are mouths are. We can stand on the roof tops all we want and sound like broken records, declaring and proving how sustainable hunting = conservation, and benefits the species, environment, and local communities but in this day and age nothing gets done without the almighty dollar. As they say, money talks and bullshit walks.
 
Not aimed at you Pete.

You can read rehashed crap on the internet. retweeting etc can cover the internet in a few hours and days.

"Scientific report" show me the author and the scholarly review that was undertaken before it was published in an accredited journal.
Not some assertions by a bunch of keyboard jockey's!

You're absolutely right about how info can be rehashed. A point to note is that often people believe something just because it's been written, shared or posted several times. As if repetition = truth.
 
You're absolutely right about how info can be rehashed. A point to note is that often people believe something just because it's been written, shared or posted several times. As if repetition = truth.

Sadly, true. We had better start typing then! Go Andrew.
 
Andrew started a FB page on Lions. "Lion" Search it.

Think of it as TRUE Lion Aid.

https://m.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1605681206386260

Feel free to "like" it so WE can spread the news from the hunting side and at least fight back against the BS on another front.
 
Seems like ZAWA has come to the party and issued an online statement regarding the decision.
I especially like the second sentence! (y)


Zambia Wildlife Authority-ZAWA
Subject: Cat hunting explained
May 28, 2015

Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) would like to clarify the decision to resume the hunting of lion and leopard in Zambia that was recently announced.
The Authority has noted the many statements issued by uninformed members of the public through social media and other avenues most of which have been misleading.
According to ground surveys conducted by ZAWA, there are basically three big cat clusters in Zambia namely Luangwa Valley, Kafue and Lower Zambezi ecological systems.
The decision by government to lift the ban on hunting was guarded by wealthy information on the status and how utilization would not be harmful to the resource, but that it contributes to conservation.
It is important to note that big cats are never counted in the same manner as antelopes or any other larger mammals. Cats by nature are secretive and are not usually found in very large prides like impalas or Zebras. Their estimates are based on long term monitoring. Different scholars have given lion estimates in Zambia depending on the extent of their observations. ZAWA is taking a cautionary approach to the lion population and currently estimates that in all these 3 clusters there are between 1500 to 2500 Lions and about 4000 leopards as the worst case scenario.
Just yesterday, Chief Nyawa of Southern province came personally at Chilanga to complain to ZAWA that a pride of 10 lions have killed 11 cattle belonging to his subject.
A similar occurrence was also reported from Chief Kaindu’s area in Mumbwa district where two prides have killed 16 cattle and generally terrorizing livestock. This is also an indication that lion population has increased in Zambia.
Zambia is at the moment ranked highly in-terms of its big cat population in the sub-region after Tanzania, South Africa and Botswana.
The African Cats Specialist Group of the International Union for the Conservation of Nature (CSG IUCN) considers Zambia’s lion population to be medium with a stable population status trend.
With this current population, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) has listed Zambia’s Lion population in Appendix II. This implies that from a global perspective, Zambia’s lion population could be hunted and trophies derived from the hunts and can be exported to other CITES member states.
ZAWA subscribes to the concept of sustainable utilisation of natural resources in line with internationally accepted best practices.
Therefore, a number of factors are considered when deciding a hunting quota among them, the animal’s age-sex structure, distribution, human wildlife conflict and availability of prey.
There is nowhere in the world were legal lion-hunting has contributed to the extinction of any lion population.

Guidelines regulating lion hunting have been developed. These guidelines prescribe hunting of male lions aged six years and above and these male lions should not be associated with any pride.

This implies that these lions being hunted are old and are no longer breeding, thus have a diminished biological function.

Further, since these lions have been pushed out of prides and have difficulty to hunt wild prey, they pose a danger to human life and domestic animals which are easy prey especially in the rural areas.

Therefore, it makes conservation and economic sense to harvest such lions so that rural communities living with the wildlife also benefit from the resources they live with, while at the same time raising funds to finance conservation programs.

It is regrettable that certain sections of the public endeavor to deprive poor local communities to benefit from wildlife by advocating for the ban on trade in lion trophies. Such calls can also frustrate conservation efforts and programs that seek to protect the very wildlife resources they claim to care about.
Hunting of big cats contributes to the local and the national economy through job creation, income from tourism, and ultimately, through income generated, contributes significantly to conservation of wildlife resources.
ZAWA is working in consultation with local and international experts in monitoring the big cats population and hunting.
 
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Well done ZAWA!
 
I also saw that statement today and found it well-reasoned, and it also puts an end to everyone claiming 'ZAWA says there's 20 000 lions and that's what they're basing their quotas on'.

Only correction I can make is that impala and zebra are in herds, not prides- minor semantics- and that if there is increasing conflict with livestock, this is less likely a sign of lion populations increasing, but rather increasing human populations and encroachment... which brings us to the whole root of the problem, everywhere!
 
and that if there is increasing conflict with livestock, this is less likely a sign of lion populations increasing, but rather increasing human populations and encroachment... which brings us to the whole root of the problem, everywhere!

it would be nice to hope that might be the case of them increasing,....... but yup in certain areas that is the big problem..........illegal logging, illegal fishing and commercial meat poaching zambias biggest employers...........and unfortunately not only zambia..............:(
 
With wildlife, trees and fish STILL being the major employer in Zambia, one would think there would be corresponding reinvestment back into their management... sadly not the case. Although then I'd be out of a job too...
 

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