Ballistics that = Recoil?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by Daniel Cary, Oct 25, 2019.

  1. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Member

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    This may sound like an Infant Question, But where in the equation determines the recoil?
    Is it the ft/lbs overall, "I'll take the M77 458 Lott for example"

    350 grain/ 2900 fps = 6500 ft/lbs

    500 grain/2400 fps= 6135 ft/lbs

    550 grain/2200 fps= 5900 ft/lbs

    I'm assuming the 350 grain would produce the most Recoil out of the three, less I'm mistaken?

    Thanks for anyone's insight!
     

  2. kurpfalzjäger

    kurpfalzjäger AH Veteran

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  3. njc110381

    njc110381 AH Enthusiast

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    There is a calculation to work it out. It's been posted here before but I'm not exactly sure how it's done. Someone will no doubt clarify.

    The thing that surprised me is that powder charge has a direct influence. You would think that a simple bullet weight and velocity calculation would be it, but it's not. If you fire a 400gr bullet to 2500fps using two loads, one with 80gr of powder and one with 100gr, the 100gr load will recoil more. I don't know how that works but apparently it does, even though the bullet energy is the same.
     
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  4. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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  5. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Member

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    This is appreciated on everyone's account, and the calculator's are pivotal! As I don't reload, there's a lot involved, especially being unfamiliar with Powder charge. ie, I can look up Factory Ammo, however, Powder info gives a brief description of its advantage … Reloading Data to the contrary "Hornady" gives Powder in code "H-4895" for example, which is Greek to me. Either way!!!

    If anyone's willing to help on this. The 458 Lott lines from Hornady, Double Tap is Fairly Inexpensive. and Have noticed Federal's Or Nosler in Double the Price Range … any insight appreciated.

    And Lastly: Taking everything else out of the equation, "For Novelty & tolerance" … Does anyone Know which Factory Load on the Market Yield's = "The Most Recoil in 458 Lott"? … Thank you, sincerely!
     

  6. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    For pricing, check out:
    Ammoseek.com

    I only have a 375 H&H, so I’m not really much help with the 458 Lott other than I have shot one of my PH’s CZ and it’s more than my old body is willing to use!:(

    Hodgdon’s website doesn’t show 458 Lott loads, but Barnes does at:
    http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/458Lott.pdf

    You can plug in their numbers and velocities to get estimated recoil.

    H-4895 is a Hodgdon powder you can use. There are others you can see as well as their grains used on the Barnes website. Using the online calculator, just plug in the grains of powder, etc.
    Here I have input some guestimates:
    https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmrecoil-5.1.cgi
    Here are the results:
    90BFE655-72A7-4A19-8449-54FED8C645C7.jpeg
    Results of one 500 gr bullet using 70 grains of powder with a velocity of 2056 FPS in a 10 lb rifle=58 foot lbs of recoil.
    I’m not clear on what else you are wanting info on.
    Hope this helps?
     

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    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
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  7. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Member

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    No, this is great literature. Thank you all!

    I was kinda all over the place on this post, the addl questions, I've should have addressed the 458Lott in particular. ie, Why Hornady, Double Tap, Etc have reasonably priced 20 round Boxes, opposed to Some manufacturers, Nosler, Federal can be priced "Double" in some of their Lineup. Was curious why such a dramatic price difference? Weight being equal?
     

  8. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Nosler bullets are expensive and they use Norma brass which is much more expensive and great quality IMO.
    Not sure why Federals is so expensive unless you are looking at it with Swift A-frame or Nosler Partition bullets which are some of the more expensive bullets.
    The 458 Lott is not a low cost cartridge to shoot. My 375 H&H is typically half or less the cost per round.
     
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  9. Dr Ray

    Dr Ray AH Legend

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    Also depends on the quantity of powder - and - the burning rate of the powder too.
     
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  10. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Member

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    I've owned a 458 Lott since 2003, along with other DG calibers of a lesser extent. But I've never really considered what a raucous this round is, until cont. researching, ballistics, efficacy, etc. It may have been undermined before purchase, the literature when Hornady Teamed with Ruger for the M77 MkII. As an essential wildcat, Hornady's 20 rnd's were extremely inexpensive, to the perceived buyer, at the time.
    Sir, if you own or are well rounded with 458 Lotts Ammunition. I have few cartridges remaining, mixed of Hornady Solids, and Another's Softpoints. … I'm in the Market for perhaps A Better Selection, and as a Note: "If you've experienced one that Has Produced Significant Recoil Above Another" Greatly Appreciated! … I've gained a comfortable tolerance, if you can call it that, after years of practice for placement … Thank you, regardless
     

  11. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Your experience with the Lott’s factory ammo cost is a good reason to reload. Reloading cost of the Lott is basically comparable to other carts in its class. I’m not sure I’ve saved any $ but the “education” over the past 50 years has been priceless and I’ve been able to shoot a lot more!

    Newton’s laws govern recoil with the mass of the bullet plus the mass of the powder (gasses) being “accelerated” out the barrel in one direction imparting an equal force in the opposite direction. I sometimes chuckle when I hear “the recoil from such and such rifle or caliber was more of a push compared to such and such...” Then I shoot the so called “more of a push” caliber and think, “yikes.. ouch!!! that was not a push and may have loosened some of my fillings!!” So anecdotes are very subjective and the recoil numbers that are gleaned from the calculations or calculators are unbiased and do tell the true story. Perception and reality may or may not be the same thing. :)
     
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  12. kurpfalzjäger

    kurpfalzjäger AH Veteran

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    That's right, but there are clear objectified differences that also agree with the theoretical calculations. I own several rifles caliber 40 to 60 so i could practically verify that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019

  13. 8 x 60

    8 x 60 AH Veteran

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    I am no expert but I believe this is to do with the total weight of the "ejecta" .

    Ejecta does not mean just the bullet weight, it also includes the powder weight
     
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  14. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Member

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    As it seems to reason, there's certainly more consideration to recoil than whats printed on a Facotry Box Ballistics. "the push theory, by brilliant supervisor was explaining to my coworkers when the Lott was brought up at a meeting" as he's never shot it." I let him run with it. Anyway, The acclaimed 700 grn for S&W's 500 is exposed as, a fear to shoot. Cor-Bon's 440 grn, by far are the Worse imo. Certainly understand the theory of manageable recoil for proper shot placement, follow up, etc. I sometimes embrace Recoil as an enthusiast as ridiculous it sounds … I've been shooting clays this year with a 6lb Coach with 3" Longbeards? … I've been getting in the pocket, just have to shoot a bit more quick off the pull! … Loud!
     

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