Avoiding CTE, brain damage, retina injury etc with big bore rifles ?

I shoot a 458 win mag that weights maybe 8 lbs with 450 solids at 2330fps. 19.5” barrel. I actually don’t think the recoil is all that bad from a standing position. Funny enough suppressed vs unsuppressed there’s not that much difference in recoil. My 375 ruger however without a suppressor is pretty brutal. With the suppressor it’s very pleasant
 
I shoot a 458 win mag that weights maybe 8 lbs with 450 solids at 2330fps. 19.5” barrel. I actually don’t think the recoil is all that bad from a standing position. Funny enough suppressed vs unsuppressed there’s not that much difference in recoil. My 375 ruger however without a suppressor is pretty brutal. With the suppressor it’s very pleasant
@generalzip - since the weight of Suppressors on a large caliber rifles is 8oz or more, How could they Not reduce recoil? Hanging a 1/2 pound of “anything” off the end of your barrel has to reduce recoil somewhat. I would think that the Lighter your rifle is to start with the more dramatic the reduction should be ie: 1/2 lb. added to 7lb rifle vs added to 10lb rifle etc.. I’ve read many posts on AH touting the advantage of hunting with a Suppressor and using ‘hearing protection & recoil reduction’ as reasons.. I wear ear plugs or noise cancelling muffs whenever practice shooting AND also for high volume dove, duck, hunting…. For Big game hunting I will stick in ear plugs before shooting “if” there’s time. I can see a reason for a suppressor for night hunting or close to neighbors property to keep noise down slightly, makes some sense. If I want to tame recoil or barrel jump I’d prefer to add something nicer looking on the end of my barrel — a Potato maybe !
 
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@generalzip - since the weight of Suppressors on a large caliber rifles is 8oz or more, How could they Not reduce recoil? Hanging a 1/2 pound of “anything” off the end of your barrel has to reduce recoil somewhat. I would think that the Lighter your rifle is to start with the more dramatic the reduction should be ie: 1/2 lb. added to 7lb rifle vs added to 10lb rifle etc.. I’ve read many posts on AH touting the advantage of hunting with a Suppressor and using ‘hearing protection & recoil reduction’ as reasons.. I wear ear plugs or noise cancelling muffs whenever practice shooting AND also for high volume dove, duck, hunting…. For Big game hunting I will stick in ear plugs before shooting “if” there’s time. I can see a reason for a suppressor for night hunting or close to neighbors property to keep noise down slightly, makes some sense. If I want to tame recoil or barrel jump I’d prefer to add something nicer looking on the end of my barrel — a Potato maybe !
Sorry maybe I confused you. On my 458 the suppressor weighs around 14oz or so. It def reduces recoil but not a TON like it does on my 375 ruger. My guess for this is because the 458 is a larger bore. This means 2 things. First, larger bores are larger to suppress as more gas escapes for the suppressor than on a smaller bore. The larger bore also has less internal volume. Secondly, a larger bore all things else equal will have a lower muzzle pressure. Muzzle brakes and suppressors become more effective at recoil reduction when muzzle pressure is high. Especially muzzle brakes. Suppressors there’s more nuances with design of baffles etc.

I own around 30 suppressors. I refuse to hunt without one. I’ve done a little hearing damage over the years and for ME I personally refuse to hunt without a suppressor. They allow me to whisper to a PH without ear protection in, make me more aware of the noise I’m making while moving around and are more pleasant for everyone around me. This is why I cut the barrel to 19.5”. Even with the suppressor it’s handy and balances well. I can even still use the iron sights on my M70 although I use a holosun 509t. I still think the rifle looks good with wood stock and I do not regret my decision to chop and thread the barrel and use a red dot and suppressor. This rifle is reserved for dangerous game only and backing up friends on dangerous game. A CEB 450 solid at 2330 fps is no joke and I bet penetrates more than the 500 grain traditional solids.

I’m using 83 grains of reloaded 10x which is an extended stick powder. It’s a compressed load, doesn’t show much if any pressure and should not run into issues ball powders do when compressed. I had to send the rifle to Winchester because of poor extractor tension and would not reliably kick out the last piece of brass. Also the front sight when my gunsmith installed it is SLIGHTLLYYY off to the left so my sights are adjusted in the rear about 75% of the way to the left but still on target and within range of the sights. It’s kind of a moot point as they are there only for backup as I use the red dot which is very reliable and more quick and accurate than iron sights.

After owning this I’d have no hesitation bumping up to a double in a 470/500 NE but I’m not a PH so it’s use is kind of limited and redundant to the 458 win mag. This rifle also shoots 420 raptors with same charge and POI at 2380fps. First 2 rounds are raptors second 2 are solids. If I’m backing up a friend I’ll load only solids.
 
Sorry maybe I confused you. On my 458 the suppressor weighs around 14oz or so. It def reduces recoil but not a TON like it does on my 375 ruger. My guess for this is because the 458 is a larger bore. This means 2 things. First, larger bores are larger to suppress as more gas escapes for the suppressor than on a smaller bore. The larger bore also has less internal volume. Secondly, a larger bore all things else equal will have a lower muzzle pressure. Muzzle brakes and suppressors become more effective at recoil reduction when muzzle pressure is high. Especially muzzle brakes. Suppressors there’s more nuances with design of baffles etc.

I own around 30 suppressors. I refuse to hunt without one. I’ve done a little hearing damage over the years and for ME I personally refuse to hunt without a suppressor. They allow me to whisper to a PH without ear protection in, make me more aware of the noise I’m making while moving around and are more pleasant for everyone around me. This is why I cut the barrel to 19.5”. Even with the suppressor it’s handy and balances well. I can even still use the iron sights on my M70 although I use a holosun 509t. I still think the rifle looks good with wood stock and I do not regret my decision to chop and thread the barrel and use a red dot and suppressor. This rifle is reserved for dangerous game only and backing up friends on dangerous game. A CEB 450 solid at 2330 fps is no joke and I bet penetrates more than the 500 grain traditional solids.

I’m using 83 grains of reloaded 10x which is an extended stick powder. It’s a compressed load, doesn’t show much if any pressure and should not run into issues ball powders do when compressed. I had to send the rifle to Winchester because of poor extractor tension and would not reliably kick out the last piece of brass. Also the front sight when my gunsmith installed it is SLIGHTLLYYY off to the left so my sights are adjusted in the rear about 75% of the way to the left but still on target and within range of the sights. It’s kind of a moot point as they are there only for backup as I use the red dot which is very reliable and more quick and accurate than iron sights.

After owning this I’d have no hesitation bumping up to a double in a 470/500 NE but I’m not a PH so it’s use is kind of limited and redundant to the 458 win mag. This rifle also shoots 420 raptors with same charge and POI at 2380fps. First 2 rounds are raptors second 2 are solids. If I’m backing up a friend I’ll load only solids.
@generalzip - you certainly have put in the thought, planning, and know the details far better then I do. Sounds like you have a very effective rifle that is well set up for the type of hunting you enjoy - your knowledge and attention to detail is impressive.
 
@generalzip - you certainly have put in the thought, planning, and know the details far better then I do. Sounds like you have a very effective rifle that is well set up for the type of hunting you enjoy - your knowledge and attention to detail is impressive.
It’s easy to go down the rabbit hole haha. That said anyone looking to reduce recoil, cutting the barrel shorter and adding a suppressor would be my first thought. If you’re unable to for legal reasons or simply cannot stand the look, a muzzle brake is the next logical thought but just understand you MUST wear hearing protection even when hunting or you will do permanent hearing damage.
 
The other alternative is step down in caliber/cartridge + increase weight of rifle. I think a 404 or 375 without can/brake can kill just as effectively with 400 or 300 gr ammo and not shake my brains loose if the gun weighs 10+ lbs. Personally, I'm convinced there is such a thing as too much gun. And I can speak from experience: three major retina surgeries to left eye and at least a dozen laser patch jobs to both eyes. The surgeries without general anesthesia are no picnic but the laser treatments are absolute torture. Like a cattle prod going off inside my brain. And unless an eye surgeon is quick at hand, you run a high risk of losing the eye once a detachment starts. I had to wait eight hours to get the next flight to Winnipeg for my first surgery and by then the detachment was nearly to the macula nerve (connects to brain). Once that happens it's lights out ... literally and for good. Even if an African eye surgeon could be found in time, vitrectomy treatment would leave a gas bubble in the eyeball that won't dissipate for two weeks. No flying till then. And you post- middle-aged guys are at increased risk of detachment/tears because aging causes vitreous fluid to thicken and shrink. Playing with big bores is not without permanent catastrophic risks. I am lucky I can still see with my left eye ... sorta (my surgeon is convinced I'm the only person in Canada whose eye survived three operations). Everything is distorted (valley from lower left to upper right) and though I see with that eye (except substantial peripheral loss), my brain cannot decipher what I'm seeing in the scar tissue zones. Any time I'm even slightly fatigued double vision occurs. When shooting moving targets I MUST close the left eye or I will miss.

Think about it. Know the risks. I reccomend choosing to make better shot placement with less risky ammo/guns.

PS: Dr says I'm "over the hump" with vitreous shrinkage. He gave me the green light to resume shooting years ago but my 10 lb 404 is probably pushing the envelope with 400 gr at 2200 fps. Looking at 360 gr when/if I go back to Africa. Needless to say I don't practice with it much!
 
I definitely think there is a such a thing as too much gun. That line is no doubt different for different folks. With that being said I still believe large amounts of recoil can be detrimental even if the effects aren't immediately noticed. I have a co-worker close to my age (50) who just had to have vertebrae fused in his neck. He wasn't sure what caused his issue, but his surgeon told him that he has seen patients that need neck surgery from coughing or sneezing. If a violent cough or sneeze can cause neck issues requiring surgery I am sure heavy recoil has that potential. I am not getting any younger, and want this body to last as long as possible. If I can avoid beating it up a bit I will.

I also own suppressors, and have experienced the drastic recoil reduction they can provide. I do believe a suppressor, like a brake, is more effective at recoil reduction in higher velocity cartridges with higher muzzle pressures. Cartridges with recoil resulting from heavy bullets at a more modest velocity won't see the same effectiveness in recoil reduction. For various reasons I doubt I will ever take a suppressor to Africa however.
 
The other alternative is step down in caliber/cartridge + increase weight of rifle. I think a 404 or 375 without can/brake can kill just as effectively with 400 or 300 gr ammo and not shake my brains loose if the gun weighs 10+ lbs. Personally, I'm convinced there is such a thing as too much gun. And I can speak from experience: three major retina surgeries to left eye and at least a dozen laser patch jobs to both eyes. The surgeries without general anesthesia are no picnic but the laser treatments are absolute torture. Like a cattle prod going off inside my brain. And unless an eye surgeon is quick at hand, you run a high risk of losing the eye once a detachment starts. I had to wait eight hours to get the next flight to Winnipeg for my first surgery and by then the detachment was nearly to the macula nerve (connects to brain). Once that happens it's lights out ... literally and for good. Even if an African eye surgeon could be found in time, vitrectomy treatment would leave a gas bubble in the eyeball that won't dissipate for two weeks. No flying till then. And you post- middle-aged guys are at increased risk of detachment/tears because aging causes vitreous fluid to thicken and shrink. Playing with big bores is not without permanent catastrophic risks. I am lucky I can still see with my left eye ... sorta (my surgeon is convinced I'm the only person in Canada whose eye survived three operations). Everything is distorted (valley from lower left to upper right) and though I see with that eye (except substantial peripheral loss), my brain cannot decipher what I'm seeing in the scar tissue zones. Any time I'm even slightly fatigued double vision occurs. When shooting moving targets I MUST close the left eye or I will miss.

Think about it. Know the risks. I reccomend choosing to make better shot placement with less risky ammo/guns.

PS: Dr says I'm "over the hump" with vitreous shrinkage. He gave me the green light to resume shooting years ago but my 10 lb 404 is probably pushing the envelope with 400 gr at 2200 fps. Looking at 360 gr when/if I go back to Africa. Needless to say I don't practice with it much!
Glad to hear you’re ok. I’d def recommend adding a suppressor and choooing the barrel shorter. The 375 ruger with a suppressor and 300 grain is not bad to shoot at all and the ballistics will take down an elephants even with a 20” or slightly shorter barrel. Do what you need to in order to do what you love. Shit placement has always and will always trump caliber and if you’re confident in your rifle that’s matters more than anything
 
I don’t want to shoot a 50 BMG ever again
It was a bolt action Barret , and I shot it laying on a shooting mat
The over pressure was so strong , it made my nose sling snot and keeps running
And my eyes to water, way worse then the howitzer they blast off after a touchdown @ the Texas A&M games
Wait, has TAMU started scoring touchdowns now?? :)
 
There is a lot of great discussion and advice on this thread, helpful and educational for me and I suspect many others also. Tons of great strategies for dealing with recoil.

I have a lot of experience with a 375 H&H and some experience with a 416RM and a small amount of experience with 470NE, as well as tons of experience with shotguns including 12ga duck loads and 10ga as well.

I will simply state my personal opinion that I believe there is too much emphasis on "practicing" with a heavy rifle for Africa. I understand that guys want to be ready, prepared, etc. I don't believe big bores are designed or intended for long range sessions. They punish. On both ends. They are a very specialized tool for a very specific task. I would submit the following:

1.) Do enough shooting with your big bore to verify that it fits, that the scope mount is secure, that the action will reliably cycle and feed and eject, and that it's zeroed with your sighting system. Then put it away.

2.) Do all the dry-fire mounting, finding a target in the scope, cycling the bolt, feeling the trigger practice in the world, until your muscle memory is dialed in for that exact rifle and scope/red dot/iron sight combination. Using snap caps or dummy rounds.

3.) Get your old reliable 22 LR (suppressed is even better) and do 98% of your practice with that. Practice off sticks, off trees, free hand, kneeling, prone, off your friends shoulder, cycling the bolt, shooting slow and aimed and deliberate, and shooting fast strings. Breathing. Footwork. Sight picture. Trigger control. Reacquisition of target. Shooting within 2 seconds of your buddy saying "Get on the sticks." Shooting after walking up a hill or doing a few pushups and being a little out of breath. Shooting with the sticks at not quite the right height. Shooting at short range. Shooting at long range. Shooting at unknown or guessed range. Shooting while crouching down a bit. If you're hunting with a big bore DR, do a lot of shooting with light loads in a SxS shotgun (28 ga is wonderful) with the same trigger setup. Shoot until all the above is ho-hum.

The above is analogous to football players "thudding" in practice. This is thudding the other player without the full-on tackle that they would bring in the game. They might thud hundreds of times in practice, but they will be on ESPN if they make 15 tackles in the game.

I would argue that if you shoot 5,000 rounds a year from your 22LR and 10 or 20 rounds a year from your big bore, you will have a great experience and make your PH very happy with you.
 
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There is a lot of great discussion and advice on this thread, helpful and educational for me and I suspect many others also. Tons of great strategies for dealing with recoil.

I have a lot of experience with a 375 H&H and some experience with a 416RM and a small amount of experience with 470NE, as well as tons of experience with shotguns including 12ga duck loads and 10ga as well.

I will simply state my personal opinion that I believe there is too much emphasis on "practicing" with a heavy rifle for Africa. I understand that guys want to be ready, prepared, etc. I don't believe big bores are designed or intended for long range sessions. They punish. On both ends. They are a very specialized tool for a very specific task. I would submit the following:

1.) Do enough shooting with your big bore to verify that it fits, that the scope mount is secure, that the action will reliably cycle and feed and eject, and that it's zeroed with your sighting system. Then put it away.

2.) Do all the dry-fire mounting, finding a target in the scope, cycling the bolt, feeling the trigger practice in the world, until your muscle memory is dialed in for that exact rifle and scope/red dot/iron sight combination. Using snap caps or dummy rounds.

3.) Get your old reliable 22 LR (suppressed is even better) and do 98% of your practice with that. Practice off sticks, off trees, free hand, kneeling, prone, off your friends shoulder, cycling the bolt, shooting slow and aimed and deliberate, and shooting fast strings. Breathing. Footwork. Sight picture. Trigger control. Reacquisition of target. Shooting within 2 seconds of your buddy saying "Get on the sticks." Shooting after walking up a hill or doing a few pushups and being a little out of breath. Shooting with the sticks at not quite the right height. Shooting at short range. Shooting at long range. Shooting at unknown or guessed range. Shooting while crouching down a bit. If you're hunting with a big bore DR, do a lot of shooting with light loads in a SxS shotgun (28 ga is wonderful) with the same trigger setup. Shoot until all the above is ho-hum.

The above is analogous to football players "thudding" in practice. This is thudding the other player without the full-on tackle that they would bring in the game. They might thud hundreds of times in practice, but they will be on ESPN if they make 15 tackles in the game.

I would argue that if you shoot 5,000 rounds a year from your 22LR and 10 or 20 rounds a year from your big bore, you will have a great experience and make your PH very happy with you.
I have a similar mindset but I use 223 or 6.5 creedmoor so I can shoot further and focus on all the above you mentioned. Still cheap comparatively. After around 100 rounds from a big bore I know it’s zeroed and reliable and I put it away except for hunting and a yearly rezero with a few rounds.
 
There is a lot of great discussion and advice on this thread, helpful and educational for me and I suspect many others also. Tons of great strategies for dealing with recoil.

I have a lot of experience with a 375 H&H and some experience with a 416RM and a small amount of experience with 470NE, as well as tons of experience with shotguns including 12ga duck loads and 10ga as well.

I will simply state my personal opinion that I believe there is too much emphasis on "practicing" with a heavy rifle for Africa. I understand that guys want to be ready, prepared, etc. I don't believe big bores are designed or intended for long range sessions. They punish. On both ends. They are a very specialized tool for a very specific task. I would submit the following:

1.) Do enough shooting with your big bore to verify that it fits, that the scope mount is secure, that the action will reliably cycle and feed and eject, and that it's zeroed with your sighting system. Then put it away.

2.) Do all the dry-fire mounting, finding a target in the scope, cycling the bolt, feeling the trigger practice in the world, until your muscle memory is dialed in for that exact rifle and scope/red dot/iron sight combination. Using snap caps or dummy rounds.

3.) Get your old reliable 22 LR (suppressed is even better) and do 98% of your practice with that. Practice off sticks, off trees, free hand, kneeling, prone, off your friends shoulder, cycling the bolt, shooting slow and aimed and deliberate, and shooting fast strings. Breathing. Footwork. Sight picture. Trigger control. Reacquisition of target. Shooting within 2 seconds of your buddy saying "Get on the sticks." Shooting after walking up a hill or doing a few pushups and being a little out of breath. Shooting with the sticks at not quite the right height. Shooting at short range. Shooting at long range. Shooting at unknown or guessed range. Shooting while crouching down a bit. If you're hunting with a big bore DR, do a lot of shooting with light loads in a SxS shotgun (28 ga is wonderful) with the same trigger setup. Shoot until all the above is ho-hum.

The above is analogous to football players "thudding" in practice. This is thudding the other player without the full-on tackle that they would bring in the game. They might thud hundreds of times in practice, but they will be on ESPN if they make 15 tackles in the game.

I would argue that if you shoot 5,000 rounds a year from your 22LR and 10 or 20 rounds a year from your big bore, you will have a great experience and make your PH very happy with you.
I'm with you on every point ... almost.

Last fall I was hunting birds in Montana for a month before my resident brother finally showed up the last two days of big game season. The condition of my deer tag is he has to be hunting with me. First morning at daybreak we spot a deer at 500 yards. Not clear what sex so I dropped out of the vehicle to try to get closer while Mike kept an eye on it. Climbed out of the canal and see a huge muley buck headed down the fence line ahead of me. I'm busted but not a shot I can't make ... but I didn't make it. The Timney trigger on my Springfield 03A3 is a LOT lighter than the old A5 shotgun I'd been using to shoot birds. The gun went off prematurely over his head going away. He jumped into the dry canal and disappeared. If it hadn't been so damn cold I probably would have popped a few rounds at the range the day before (I did check zero after arriving in Montana four weeks before). No matter. I got him the next day. Same shot going away same distance 65 yards. Dropped him with a neck shot.
20241128_093117.jpg

Moral of the story is get the feel for that hunting rifle, either at the range or dry firing practice, but don't erase it using another gun before taking the hunting rifle into the field, especially if they have different trigger weights.
 
It’s already been mentioned, but please try a Past recoil pad (thicker the better). It’s the cheapest most effective thing you can do. I was amazed at the reduction in perceived recoil. It also ‘increases’ LOP artificially, so allows you to evaluate that for possible future stock modifications.
 
Here is the thickest one I could find. They also make a field version, presumably to be worn while hunting and is thinner. Perhaps you could wear it between a tshirt and your hunting shirt while on safari.

 
Here is the thickest one I could find. They also make a field version, presumably to be worn while hunting and is thinner. Perhaps you could wear it between a tshirt and your hunting shirt while on safari.

Ordered it. Thanks ! I shoot enough to make it worthwhile, and I ain't getting any younger. I was on the fence with shoulder pads because the recoil wasn't bothering my shoulder. However if I can soften the blow to the shoulder it should slow and lessen the energy to the skull.
 
Been dealing with eye issues, nothing that seriously threatens me with blindness (caught it in time) but is just maddening, interferes with quality of life, and frankly aint all that safe behind the wheel at night, in a storm, and both at once? Fugeddaboutit.

Not to mention my shootin’.

This means I now have a retina surgeon and am fresh out of two no bullshit inner eye surgeries. Actually make that three. Fun times!

I took the opportunity to ask this highly regarded veteran eye surgeon about recoil originated eye injuries.

He gave me a blank look. Never heard a such a thing. Then he had staff do a publications search, did some himself. Watched him do it, professional subscriber only deep medicine journals.

Aint no there there.

He went a step further and hit up a crony of his, another eye surgeon, who, wait for it, is a firearms enthusiast and belongs to a quite serious rifle/shotgun/handgun club.

Am told the crony laughed and said, “If that were the case, 90% of the club would be blind!”

And there you have it.

Now, who’s got a neurologist?
 
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Im a small person, about 5,7 and my back up rifle is a 458 win mag. i shoot 480 grain Dzombo solids at about 2100 fps recoil is fine, about the same as my .375 and performance is great
 
I've noticed a huge difference between the .458 Winchester Magnum and the .458 Lott in terms of recoil. The ammunition was cheap; the .458 Winchester Magnum was a Remington armored nose, and the Lott was a silver-plated brass Norma, I think a Norma PH. I found the .458 Winchester to be quite pleasant and easy to handle, but the .458 Lott was a harsh blow. I didn't like it at all.
 
Been dealing with eye issues, nothing that seriously threatens me with blindness (caught it in time) but is just maddening, interferes with quality of life, and frankly aint all that safe behind the wheel at night, in a storm, and both at once? Fugeddaboutit.

Not to mention my shootin’.

This means I now have a retina surgeon and am fresh out of two no bullshit inner eye surgeries. Actually make that three. Fun times!

I took the opportunity to ask this highly regarded veteran eye surgeon about recoil originated eye injuries.

He gave me a blank look. Never heard a such a thing. Then he had staff do a publications search, did some himself. Watched him do it, professional subscriber only deep medicine journals.

Aint no there there.

He went a step further and hit up a crony of his, another eye surgeon, who, wait for it, is a firearms enthusiast and belongs to a quite serious rifle/shotgun/handgun club.

Am told the crony laughed and said, “If that were the case, 90% of the club would be blind!”

And there you have it.

Now, who’s got a neurologist?
90% of his club undoubtedly do not have diabetes, severely near sighted, and/or thin retinas. Those conditions will predispose to spontaneous retina detachments. Surely your eye surgeon told you that. It doesn't take much environmental push to cause non-spontaneous detachments in those individuals. Ask him that and he will concur. Diabetes and near sightedness are easily diagnosed preemptorarily. Thin retinas are pretty much impossible to diagnose without cutting into the schlera ... post mortem or during surgery. Ask your eye surgeon and he will confirm. For the general population without those medical conditions I would agree that it might be improbable for heavy recoiling rifles to induce "spontaneous" detachments. But those who have the conditions are at increased risk of having "spontaneous" detachments induced by traumatic environmental factors like being hit in the head, falling off a horse, car wreck, etc. Those factors can also induce detachments in low risk factor general population. Rare but it happens (e.g. boxers, football players, bull riders, etc.) This is well known and documented. The problem for predicting who are vulnerable to retina detachments is the small percentage of us with thin retinas. Our predisposing condition remains hidden until too late. Most of their lives these folks may appear to be be as low risk as the rest of the general population who have no predisposition conditions. But then those with thin retinas hit the end of middle age and start their golden years. That's when the vitreous fluid inside the eyeball begins to thicken and shrink due to aging process. This causes the fluid to stick to the more fragile thin retina as it shrinks and then tears can occur. Fluid gets through the tear and lifts the retina away = spontaneous detachment. If the sticky fluid is grabbing at the retina, it may not take much of an external jolt to cause a tear. Or even no jolt at all ( = purely spontaneous).

I can safely say that anyone in his late fifties or later who is diabetic (especially stage one) or severely near sighted is gravely at risk of damaging his/her retinas shooting heavy recoil guns. Or bull riding or boxing. I'm sure macula degeneration falls into the same risk category (probably higher!). But for the rest of us, how do we know if we have genetically thin retinas? We don't ... until they start falling apart. We are unknowingly playing with fire shooting heavy recoil guns ESPECIALLY as we get older. No one wants to live in a golden cage so some risks are accepted. It's up to the individual where they want to draw the line.

My first detachment was almost certainly purely spontaneous. It might have been repaired in time to avoid detachment had I known the symptoms of a tear. The second detachment occurred three months later after a morning goose hunting with 3" magnum 870 pump action. Shooting undoubtedly caused it. Would it eventually have happened anyway? Possibly, because three months later I had the third detachment. Or possibly the trauma of two prior surgeries induced the third. This seems the most likely explanation because the surgical treatment for the third lower quadrant detachment was simply readjusting the silicone buckle from first surgery ... and hoping for a miracle. In the meantime I started having laser repairs to mend tears in the right eye retina. During the third hospitazation for surgery I was counseled to prepare myself for eventual total blindness! But here I am today twenty-one years later still reading, driving, and yes shooting (though left eye is all but useless). Luckily my vitreous fluid eventually stopped shrinking and tearing my retinas and the surgeons finally gave me the green light to resume all activities (but no bull riding :D ).

If you are past fifty (I was only 52 when detachments started) and you want to shoot thumpers, at least learn the symptoms of detachment or tears. Quick medical intervention is critical!
 
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SCmackey wrote on SBW1975's profile.
I have a Chapuis 450-400 double that looks brand new and shoots well, never been hunted from what I can tell. I am willing to part with it as I have a 375 H&H Sodia on it's way from Dorleac & Dorleac. I am looking for $9,250 for it and if you are interested, I am happy to send you some pictures. Regards,
Steve
SCmackey wrote on buckstix's profile.
Hi There, I saw the pics of the VC 470 NE, what is the asking price? Thanks, Steve
 
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