Any point in a 'small' double rifle?

9.3x74 is a very solid choice as a Africa and North America gun. It is enough for anything in NA dorm squirrel to Brown bear. My 9.3 Chapuis is my favorite rifle in the safe. On the bigger side I have shot, 450/400, 500/416, 450NE, 470 NE, 500NE and 577NE. The 450/400 and 500/416 are the most versatile of the 40+ CAL. For the small doubles I have a 8x57JRS and a 7x65R. Both are solid plains game and elk and smaller NA rounds. I have a Hyem 7x65 that is for sale.


My first safari I took a 9.3x74 single shot and 450NE double. As long as you understand the limitations you place on a double for your first safari I say take a double and a bolt gun and go have fun.
Hi there. If on the fence between a 450/400 3" and a 470 NE in a double, which you go with? I am not a reloader so I am very hesitant on the former as there seems to be one ammo manufacturer left that sells the cartridge (Hornady). I would hate to drop 13k on a rifle that becomes a very nice conversation piece. Thanks for your advice.
 
First of all, I strongly agree with those who suggest a first foray into dangerous game is best accomplished with a scoped .375.

I am a bit of a contrarian here, but a 40 something double rifle is a fairly wasteful investment for most client hunters who have a couple of buffalo and perhaps a elephant in their future. I hasten to add that I own a 500/416 and a .470. In the above scenario, the client will shoot less than ten rounds at game (counting insurance rounds) during his ownership of the rifle.

On the other hand, a scoped .375 double can be an extremely useful rifle for Africa (and other places). Let me also address up front that though rims were important on double rifle rounds in the early days of the last century, German and Austrian gunmakers have been building totally reliable doubles in .375 for nearly a century.

A quality .375 double can be scoped. My Blaser S2 was designed to use the same mounting system as the R8. It shoots MOA from each barrel, and the barrels regulate into 2.5 inches for four shots LxR/LxR at 100 yards. I sight in on the right barrel. That gives me the full capability range of a .375 with the first shot, and a second only a few MOA away. A Heym in .375 should be capable of the same accuracy. For a follow-up, one can simply remove the scope or crank it down to 1x.

With such a rifle, a client can complete a safari including a DG animal like a buffalo and PG. I admit it could be just me, but that sounds like a far more enjoyable and useful rifle to own than a 40 something. I should add my S2 and I completed just such a satisfactory hunt in Mozambique a few years ago that included a buffalo well under 100 yards and a waterbuck beyond 200.

All that said, I brought a scoped .375 Mauser for my first buffalo, and a scoped R8 in .375 for my last two.
Red Leg, you would recommend the new Chapuis "Iphisi" that only comes in .375 H&H? A lot of people with your experience seem to say give a very wide berth to non-rimmed cartridges for a double rifle given the higher pressures and possible failure of the ejector pawls. You would say otherwise? Thanks
 
Hi there. If on the fence between a 450/400 3" and a 470 NE in a double, which you go with? I am not a reloader so I am very hesitant on the former as there seems to be one ammo manufacturer left that sells the cartridge (Hornady). I would hate to drop 13k on a rifle that becomes a very nice conversation piece. Thanks for your advice.
Between those two I would get a 500/416NE.....
 
Hi there. If on the fence between a 450/400 3" and a 470 NE in a double, which you go with? I am not a reloader so I am very hesitant on the former as there seems to be one ammo manufacturer left that sells the cartridge (Hornady). I would hate to drop 13k on a rifle that becomes a very nice conversation piece. Thanks for your advice.
450/400 3" is certain capable of taking any large game, but still mild enough to shoot a lot. The 470 uses more powder for casual use, and it is certainly less mild!
 
I went through this decision process and almost settled upon a Heym 89b light frame in 375 FL. In fact I placed my order. Then the doubt wheels started turning - was it the right all round choice? Yes it could take buffalo, just. And it was indeed better if I was after PG only with the occasional buffalo. But if I wanted lots of buffalo and PG, then the 450/400 was the better choice. So I changed my order to the latter. No regrets.
If I wanted a small double in the future then I would go all the way down, to something like a .303 and put a scope on it. A nice small petite frame.
The double below is a Rigby Rising Bite small frame in.303, handles like a dream.
IMG_9837.jpeg
 
450/400 3" is certain capable of taking any large game, but still mild enough to shoot a lot. The 470 uses more powder for casual use, and it is certainly less mild!
Right. All things being equal. But my primary concern is that ammo availability is not equal between the two calibers. 470 NE seems readily found by the major manufacturers while 450/400 is now limited to just Hornady. I think that is quite an investment to make in a 450/400 double (as mild and effective a caliber as it is) when you are down to one commercial source of ammo.
 
And forgive me as all of you may have more current info than I do. Last time I really looked into this three main ammo manufactures were loading for the 450/400 3"; Hornady, Norma, and Kynoch. Now I believe it is only Hornady (although I could be wrong..and hope that I am). That being the case, if Hornady ever decides to put its resources elsewhere, an expensive 450/400 double could be a very unwise purchase on my part. Someone in the industry even told me that one of the reasons Chapuis went with 375 H&H for the Iphisi was because Chapuis was even having a hard time sourcing enough 450/400 3" ammo to test its products!
 
I went through this decision process and almost settled upon a Heym 89b light frame in 375 FL. In fact I placed my order. Then the doubt wheels started turning - was it the right all round choice? Yes it could take buffalo, just. And it was indeed better if I was after PG only with the occasional buffalo. But if I wanted lots of buffalo and PG, then the 450/400 was the better choice. So I changed my order to the latter. No regrets.
If I wanted a small double in the future then I would go all the way down, to something like a .303 and put a scope on it. A nice small petite frame.
The double below is a Rigby Rising Bite small frame in.303, handles like a dream.
View attachment 592519
I am very envious of these. Fantastic!
 
If you want a modern, capable Euro rimmed cartridge in .308" the .30R Blaser fills that need vey well.
 
@Tiger2001 Since you don't handload and are dependent on factory ammo I would go with the 470. I have owned both and the like them. I did settle on a 500/416 as my go to double in the 40Cal class as I do reload and have enough brass to last me a lifetime.
 
Also availible in Blaser O/U a much better option tha sxs for 9.3z74R and down calibers......adjustable barrels easy to qd scope, accurate and reliable.....no restriction on ammo choice.....
 
Also availible in Blaser O/U a much better option tha sxs for 9.3z74R and down calibers......adjustable barrels easy to qd scope, accurate and reliable.....no restriction on ammo choice.....
May I ask why you think that the O/U configuration is superior to a SXS double for a 9.3?
 
No crossing issues
Can use non regulated ammo
Can adjust the barrels for the load
Accurate
Easy to scope with qd mounts
Light and easy to handle
Aditional barrel sets and configuratiins can be ordered afterwards fit straight on
12ga availible instead of just 20ga
You can have it with 2 different calibers in one barrel set as well
Etc.etc.....
 
No crossing issues
Can use non regulated ammo
Can adjust the barrels for the load
Accurate
Easy to scope with qd mounts
Light and easy to handle
Aditional barrel sets and configuratiins can be ordered afterwards fit straight on
12ga availible instead of just 20ga
You can have it with 2 different calibers in one barrel set as well
Etc.etc.....
Thank you very much for your quick response! A lot of this new to me and I appreciate the advice. I am looking at a used Merkel B3 O/U in 9.3 and a used Chapuis SXS in same caliber. About a 1k Euro difference but the Chapuis comes with a Leica scope so the higher price. I am hesitant about the B3 because of the cocking mechanism (like on the K gun or a Blaser).
 
As you can see, your question has opened up several talking points with corresponding opinions.

1. The classic double vs single
2. First time safari with a double
3. Caliber

Allow me to use your own words, and I'll throw in a few of mine.

1. "My first hunting trip to Africa wouldn't feel proper without a double rifle" - You need no other justification, nor do you need anyone's permission. If that's what you want to do - do it. I did, and was quite successful. Word of caution - practice with it before you go. Your PH will be concerned about a "newbie" with a double.

2. "Should I get a more practical and usable double?" - Only if you feel the need. Additional use is simply a bonus.

3. "Is there any real point in a double in a 'small' caliber?" - All depends on you - I had a double barrel BB gun when I was a kid. Garden snails at close range were no match for my trusty double.

4. "I never need an excuse to buy new guns" - And that sir - is all you need.

If you are like me, you don't object to purchasing whatever equipment you might need - you just don't want to waste time or money buying the wrong thing. Finding other uses for what you're considering is merely an attempt to rationalize your purchase.

Pros and cons aside, double rifles are fun to shoot.

You can get lost in the maze of which one is right for me; and the more variables you apply - the possibilities expand exponentially. Reduce the variables - you narrow your search.

Don't try to turn work boots into tuxedo shoes.

There are a lot of guys on this forum with years of experience; sift through their answers and sort out what is most applicable to you.

My first trip to Africa I was just like you, having read all the books and survived all those snail charges, I couldn't not picture myself with a double. I was fortunate to have someone sit me down and ask a few simple questions: What was I going to hunt, how many times did I envision myself going back? From that conversation I bought a 450/400 double and a 375 H&H bolt rifle.

The 450/400 has proven itself quite capable of stopping everything up to and including elephants, and I've used it on zebra and giraffe. Having said that, as I find myself favoring "bigger" big game, I've stepped up to a 500NE double.

See if you can find a few to shoot, think about what you're going to hunt, don't worry about making it practical for anything other than your hunt.

I have to admit - that double 22 has me thinking.

















 

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Do you have any cull hunts available? 7 days, daily rate plus per animal price?

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